Should you gain meter when blocking attacks?

[Eldriken]

Every time I see this argument, people ignore the fact that when you hit your opponent, they gain a significant amount of meter and you don't gain any.

That would have to be totally changed as well. This definitely isn't something you can just throw in the game and say "well it'd make it better".

I think the patches have mostly been in the right direction. (Aside from a few odd things like the recent Quan buffs). I have a ton of fun in the game and the balance seems comparable to other FGs. I don't agree a system change like this would be needed. Block pressure was obviously meant to be strong. This isn't a down-back all day game. If someone doesn't like the game competitively, they can play one of the numerous other fighting games that caters to a playstyle they prefer or are more accustomed to. One thing I love about NRS games is how different each one is. There is no "normal" NRS style. You cannot sit on legacy skill and hope to achieve victory.

All in all, I disagree.

I see what you're saying, but you don't gain a significant amount of meter when taking damage. If you consider taking 50% damage to build one bar significant, then so be it. To each their own. I feel differently, but you're not wrong for your opinion. I respect it.

Your opponent does build meter when they're hitting you, but only when it's from a special attack. So, they're benefiting in both departments at some point or another.

I'm not saying that it simply being implemented would "make it better" or anything. A lot of thought would obviously have to go into it. Meter gain scaling and such like that.

Yeah, so if I'm fighting someone and I'm playing as Cybernetic Kano or Royal Storm Kitana, some guy can just block low the entire game and build meter. That mechanic would suck for some characters imo. Johnny Cage as well.

While this would be the case, you would chip them out if they blocked the entire time. And as I said already, the meter they gain is NOT ON PAR to the meter YOU gain from them blocking your attacks. If they wanted to block the entire time until they gained 3 bars, they'd be dead before then.

Also, these characters do have other means to regularly damage you if you're just gonna block low the whole time. Throws, Kitana has b2, etc.

 

[Somea2V]

It would function the same as it does now, but with the addition of the defender gaining meter while blocking. It obviously wouldn't be on par with the meter gained from your attacks being blocked, however.



It would be interesting, but then it might wind up being too complicated or wouldn't even matter in the end. I think any blocked attack should net the defender some sort of meter since they are STILL LOSING LIFE. It only makes sense since you gain meter from being hit (taking damage). Damage received is damage received.

I see (said the blind man to the deaf woman)! I wouldn't have too much problem with this. It already seems like everyone gains meter faster than Cage anyway.

And a quick tangent on JiP's, this isn't a great solution but I've found that perfectly timed D1's do seem to beat many JiP's on block. Not every one, unfortunately but it gives you something to work with. It's a bit like Deathstroke's Ji3. You have to commit to a perfectly timed poke, but it'll break you out of the pressure of JiP's. At least in my experience, I mean. You should always take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

The best defense is a good offense. That's how that saying goes right?

But if you can't keep the other team from scoring...

is it really?

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

And a quick tangent on JiP's, this isn't a great solution but I've found that perfectly timed D1's do seem to beat many JiP's on block

jip jails into normals under around ~ 20 frame startup on block (not sure about the limit). It's a true block string for example jip into a 14 frame high back kick will force you to stand block it, "low pokes go under high attacks" won't work this time. You cannot poke out of it unless the jump in puncher does something very wrong

 

[Somea2V]

jip jails into normals under around ~ 20 frame startup on block (not sure about the limit). It's a true block string for example jip into a 14 frame high back kick will force you to stand block it, "low pokes go under high attacks" won't work this time. You cannot poke out of it unless the jump in puncher does something very wrong

Then I guess people keeping doing things wrong against me. That's good to know and something I'll have to start abusing.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Do people want Quan to dominate this game?

In theory this sounds nice but in practice it would actually just help the higher tiers beat the lower tiers more. A lot of characters rely on blockstring presssure in order to get anything going, if their opponent is gaining meter while blocking then they will be able to get an armored reversal out more easily.

If you want better defense tell NRS to buff backdashes(make all characters like Kano's). Backdashes suck lol.

 

[GamerBlake90]

If there weren't so many 50/50 situations as well as so much chip damage, there'd be no need to consider something like this...but as it stands, it's worth thinking about.

As of now, we don't get rewarded for our defense other than being more than a step closer to death. As someone who prefers to play like a brick wall, I take issue with this.

Obviously I am not saying we should be given the ability to block all day, but there needs to be something in it for both sides, implemented in a manner that isn't unreasonable.

Another solution would be to cut the chip damage down to smaller levels, but that's always been one of MK's trademarks, sooooooo...wishful thinking.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Then I guess people keeping doing things wrong against me. That's good to know and something I'll have to start abusing.

I hit people with Kitana's d1 lift everyday. I'm like "hey, sue me plz?". Should I stop using that? probably because I play mostly offline and my friends will deal with it better
But honestly, that jip jails into normals is the worst mechanic NRS can ever make. It's like giving scrubs a free way to pressure and 50/50 instead of smart and careful counter poking game.

 

[Eldriken]

Do people want Quan to dominate this game?

In theory this sounds nice but in practice it would actually just help the higher tiers beat the lower tiers more. A lot of characters rely on blockstring presssure in order to get anything going, if their opponent is gaining meter while blocking then they will be able to get an armored reversal out more easily.

If you want better defense tell NRS to buff backdashes(make all characters like Kano's). Backdashes suck lol.

It seems a lot of people are overlooking the fact that I said meter gained from blocking attacks would be significantly less than the amount you build from your attacks being blocked. It's not like one blocked string will net you 30-40% of a bar. That would be ludicrous. You're likely to take more chip damage than meter gained from blocking the attacks.

Buffing backdashes is definitely a good idea as well and would probably require a lot less work than what this topic is about.

 

[GamerBlake90]

If you want better defense tell NRS to buff backdashes(make all characters like Kano's). Backdashes suck lol.

Oooooooor, this could be a viable option as well.

 

[GAV]

Online shouldn't be considered when it come to game balance. I'm sorry, but it just shouldn't.

And Eldriken, would this shift meter gain to the defender entirely or be a mutual thing, as in both characters would gain meter on attack and block? The reason I ask is that switching meter gain to the blocker only would neuter some characters that rely on their pressure game for meter. Cage, for example, doesn't gain meter terribly well. So if he lost the gain he gets for pressuring his opponent...

I like the story where online doesn't matter, but it matters.

It doesn't matter, but there's a 50+ page thread over the netcode with three petitions.

Some players ACTUALLY WANT TO ADD A DELAY to the game to help out the netcode. I find this idea absolutely nonsensical...

...but online does matter. Without it, the game wouldn't have made enough money or have garnered enough support for the offline scene to be what it is.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

And reduce timer to 60 in game second like Sonicfox suggested?

 

[GAV]

It seems a lot of people are overlooking the fact that I said meter gained from blocking attacks would be significantly less than the amount you build from your attacks being blocked. It's not like one blocked string will net you 30-40% of a bar. That would be ludicrous. You're likely to take more chip damage than meter gained from blocking the attacks.

Buffing backdashes is definitely a good idea as well and would probably require a lot less work than what this topic is about.

I trust your insight, but buffing running away would change what this game is about completely.

We love the game now, so why would we want it to be something completely different?

 

[Pterodactyl]

I don't no about gaining meter when blocking but you should def gain the advantage when you block a JiP. It would stop alot of the online shenanigans & alot of ppl would actually have to use their brains to get in.

Fucking this! This so much.

 

[Eldriken]

I trust your insight, but buffing running away would change what this game is about completely.

We love the game now, so why would we want it to be something completely different?

If backdashes didn't cost stamina, I could see your point. You can't backdash all day and a lot of characters currently have shitty backdashes. So, if backdashes remained the same (recovery, distance, etc) and they only buffed the invincibility frames, it might not be as drastic as one would think.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I would welcome Meter gain on successful blocks at a low rate lets say 1/16 of meter for 3 hit string. and we could lower the amount given to on hit meter gain to balance it out. this way Constant aggression is not as awarded and additional options arise for those who are defense prone.

and i think backdashes should only cost 1/3 of a stamina bar instead of half of the 2 bars allotted.

 

[Somea2V]

I like the story where online doesn't matter, but it matters.

It doesn't matter, but there's a 50+ page thread over the netcode with three petitions.

Some players ACTUALLY WANT TO ADD A DELAY to the game to help out the netcode. I find this idea absolutely nonsensical...

...but online does matter. Without it, the game wouldn't have made enough money or support for the offline scene to be what it is.

I think I may have been misunderstood or unclear. I only meant in terms of balancing. There are always going to be variables affecting online play that can't be effectively and absolutely quantified. These are inconsistent and shouldn't have a place in balancing the game's mechanics.

Fixing the netcode so it's playable should matter in a general sense, however, and it's something any self-respecting developer peddling a product should do.

 

[NurzBenny]

Definitely an idea worth thinking about. Block Breakers and Back Dashes being less stamina meter dependent would go a long way. But like other's have said, it's an offensive game by nature. You don't want to be blocking in the first place.

. . . and Dizzy just @ junior next time

 

[TopTierHarley]

Yes, make D'Vorah better

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

Make block breakers cost one bar no stamina, and buff anti-airs more. Give people a way to make / control space and more easily break a players oppressive offense, and make the ground game stronger than the air game off top.

I do think that it is kind of backwards that blocking gets you no real meter gain, but honestly that is how the game is, and apparently how they want it to be. The game is pretty fundamentally sound regardless, but yeah, buff AAs and general defense and I think the game will be better for it.

 

[Blade4693]

Probably. Slasher for example, gets rekt by characters like Liu and Lao with their constant pressure and faster normals so you pretty much gotta sit there and take it until you get a breaker or they mess up. If we got meter for blocking we could break out more often and armor wake up more when we get knocked down. It doesn't even help that I can block correctly most of the time against them, once they get their pressure started there isn't much Slasher can do lol

That's just thinking from one character/variation though haha

 

[GAV]

If backdashes didn't cost stamina, I could see your point. You can't backdash all day and a lot of characters currently have shitty backdashes. So, if backdashes remained the same (recovery, distance, etc) and they only buffed the invincibility frames, it might not be as drastic as one would think.

...but the game is a pressure based one and adding invincible frames would change that.

 

[GAV]

Make block breakers cost one bar no stamina, and buff anti-airs more. Give people a way to make / control space and more easily break a players oppressive offense, and make the ground game stronger than the air game off top.

I do think that it is kind of backwards that blocking gets you no real meter gain, but honestly that is how the game is, and apparently how they want it to be. The game is pretty fundamentally sound regardless, but yeah, buff AAs and general defense and I think the game will be better for it.

If you're going to do that, then you gotta give back any bar the offensive player used on the combo. I think its better as is.

 

[DreadKnight1]

Why this wouldn't work is because if someone sees you have no meter then they're safe to go for a string that you can armour through like Kung Laos f23 low hat(the punch then low not sure if that's the correct input) however now all of a sudden they're getting punished for seeing you don't have a bar yet you've just built a bar.

Also this would destroy characters like FF kang and Johnny cage.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

Definitely an idea worth thinking about. Block Breakers and Back Dashes being less stamina meter dependent would go a long way. But like other's have said, it's an offensive game by nature. You don't want to be blocking in the first place.

. . . and Dizzy just @ junior next time

Buffing back-dashes by making them cost no stamina would be the wrong choice IMO. Giving them more invincibility and/or range would/should be enough as allowing people to just run all day would be kind of boring and brain dead IMO. Having BDs cost stamina forces people to play footsies and the overall spacing game. Allowing people to negate that aspect of the game would be a mistake.