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General/Other - Raiden Raiden General Discussion

Deadly Torcher

King Dingaling
Trying TG out & can't seem to get his LBC out at all, I can do Scorp, D'vorrah & Liu Kangs but Raidens seems to be the slowest & most awkward.

Any tips for getting it down?

Cheers
 

skrone

cold blooded
Trying TG out & can't seem to get his LBC out at all, I can do Scorp, D'vorrah & Liu Kangs but Raidens seems to be the slowest & most awkward.

Any tips for getting it down?

Cheers
note: on the Raiden forums we call it LRC (lightning run cancel) most of the time, I only mention this b/c it is the notation I'm going to use below
the way I learned this is by doing njp, b14~LRC,f12 this is the easiest LRC combo to learn first. Break this into pieces. make sure you can go from b14~db1, run,f12 cleanly(also be sure you are running and not dashing, it won't work unless you cancel it with a run). Just worry about getting the inputs clean. Start slow, and speed up gradually. When you get this down, add the njp. When done properly, everything should show up as one continuous combo. If the cancel looks clean and you aren't getting the link, make sure you aren't waiting too long to hit the f12 (I had this problem when I started learning this). Go through this whole process on both sides, and practice, practice, practice. Once you can hit this consistently (10 times in a row, both sides) you will be able to start messing around with some of the awesome stuff people have put up on these threads, and the cancel will not feel slow or awkward anymore. Also, take the time to go through the Raiden forum. This has been discussed and explained a million times by Raiden players who are much better than I am. It takes a lot of work. If you aren't willing to put the time in, Thunder God Raiden probably isn't for you. Good luck
 

delbuster

hungry
stand 1 is the anti air in certain matchups like quan chi, from what ive tested. hitbox is capable of hitting his moves.

however, raiden's anti air in general is pretty armor reliant in most matchups, but if you don't want to spend the bar, you can play a guessing game of using 1 to beat late jump ins, and ducking to avoid early jump ins and punish them with f1 when they land.

stand 1 is nice because of the potential converts though.

1 b14 superman
1 b14 LRC f12b2(hold) superman
1 b14 LRC 214 superman

the second and third combos are not always possible based on when you hit them with b1 but deal more damage.

1 b14 exDF2 b14 LRC 214 superman
35% anti air for one bar is VERY solid

corner, 1 b14 LRC 214 exDF2 213 f12b2(hold) f12b2(hold) 4 df2 for 39% is also quite nice.

if they seem out of range of b1, you can probably still do a convert like
1 1122 or 1 11 superman or something weird like that.
 
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Raiden's f1 was changed from a mid to a high in the latest patch. I would view this as a nerf since it damages our pressure. Mind you, not that big of a nerf in my opinion.

Oh by the way I'm new here. Currentlemon is what I go by.

Edit: Oh its already being discussed in another topic my bad.
 

delbuster

hungry
nivek vs afoxygrampa set thoughts:

nivek showed a lot of good stuff. in fact, when he was up 3-2 in the last set, i think he had very good opportunities to win, and just dropped things. same with the final game when it was 3-3; he had good opportunities in the first and last rounds, which foxy barely took back.

last round in particular; nivek scores a great anti air and converts and foxy breaks. foxy then tries to apply pressure with run, but no stamina; nivek was too scared to press a button to punish the dashes that foxy was doing. (note that if you try to run w/o stamina, you get a dash if you press block later, or block if you press it earlier. and foxy was getting dashes)

first round of last game, nivek did a slow reaction ex superman thru a hat, got punished on block, and broke the combo immediately, dumping 3 meters on a bad reaction. he had the lead too, i think he was a little too exhausted by the set.

he also jumped a bit too much, and broke the ex spin anti air combo when he could, but i think breaking that combo isn't worth it because it does like 25 damage for a bar.

so yeah; i really like how nivek played when he wasn't on tilt, he 7-0'd foxy and had very good opportunities to close it out. nivek will be a HUGE threat if he ever goes to another USA tourney, very very solid.

important things he did: anti air with good converts, and confirm TG strings into extended combos.
also, TG strings into df2. Im not sure if it's a blockstring so if it's not they might be able to duck or crouch attack the df2 since it's a high, but if it's a blockstring then there's no real reason not to do it except for when the opponent expects it. it's an extra -8 move building a little more meter and can catch them trying to do something too early.
it is a little tricky to do since you have to release 2 to do df2 and the TG hold string is weird like that.

really good stuff, too bad about the chokes.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
So, how does everyone feel about the f1 changes, and how they have affected him in neutral and his counterpoking? I still feel that Raiden is extremely strong but stuffing his approaches w low pokes have become much more viable against him. Will this raise the need for f4(crushes low pokes)? His only counterpoking options now are d1, d3 and b3. If pokes are blocked then his only pressure option is b1...., or 50/50 that isn't very frame tight. Let's talk about this, I'm really interested in how others feel about this.
@Chaosphere @GGA Dizzy @delbuster @brizzle @skrone and all other TG Raiden players
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
So, how does everyone feel about the f1 changes, and how they have affected him in neutral and his counterpoking? I still feel that Raiden is extremely strong but stuffing his approaches w low pokes have become much more viable against him. Will this raise the need for f4(crushes low pokes)? His only counterpoking options now are d1, d3 and b3. If pokes are blocked then his only pressure option is b1...., or 50/50 that isn't very frame tight. Let's talk about this, I'm really interested in how others feel about this.
@Chaosphere @GGA Dizzy @delbuster @brizzle @skrone and all other TG Raiden players
Honestly im really not sure yet. I've played some online matches and i gound that im still using f1 pretty regularly and i've only gotten low poked for it a couple times. I think if anything it's hard to use f1 as a counter poke anymore but i think d1 d3 b1 and b3 have counter poke uses. Overall TG raiden is still a strong variation
 
I just wish b1,1 didn't wiff. I had no idea it was safe and not -9 like it says. Still can't use it though as it misses about 90% of the time. I just do b1,4 shocker if blocked or ex shocker on hit. It would also be nice if b1,1,2(hold) wasn't -14 though, but you can always cancel into shocker to be more safe. B3,2 handles mid range pretty good, and d4 is a good footsie tool. F2 is good for jump ins and knockdowns. And standing reset allows f1,2 to jail. He's a complete character outside of the b1,1 problem I think. Just have to use every one of his tools now
 
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SEV

Noob
So, how does everyone feel about the f1 changes, and how they have affected him in neutral and his counterpoking? I still feel that Raiden is extremely strong but stuffing his approaches w low pokes have become much more viable against him. Will this raise the need for f4(crushes low pokes)? His only counterpoking options now are d1, d3 and b3. If pokes are blocked then his only pressure option is b1...., or 50/50 that isn't very frame tight. Let's talk about this, I'm really interested in how others feel about this.
@Chaosphere @GGA Dizzy @delbuster @brizzle @skrone and all other TG Raiden players
I've been playing a lot of alts recently since the patch came out but from the time I've put it with Raiden I really don't feel like it affected him much at all. One strategy that's definitely out the window is run in F1 but that's fine because Raiden has always seemed to be a character where you don't get to start pressure until after your opponent and now, rather than using the F1 itself, we operate around the threat of it. Before the counter poking game was: will he try to counter poke or escape in which case I F1, or will he respect my F1 in which case I can go straight for the 50/50 , each yielded full combo. Now it's: will they try to counter poke or escape in which case I will D1 then go for my 50/50, or will he respect my D1 in which case I can go straight the my 50/50. We just don't get a combo no matter what now, so long as we guess right; we still have to make them guess wrong on the 50/50 to get opened up.
 

skrone

cold blooded
So, how does everyone feel about the f1 changes, and how they have affected him in neutral and his counterpoking? I still feel that Raiden is extremely strong but stuffing his approaches w low pokes have become much more viable against him. Will this raise the need for f4(crushes low pokes)? His only counterpoking options now are d1, d3 and b3. If pokes are blocked then his only pressure option is b1...., or 50/50 that isn't very frame tight. Let's talk about this, I'm really interested in how others feel about this.
@Chaosphere @GGA Dizzy @delbuster @brizzle @skrone and all other TG Raiden players
This hasn't really been an issue for me. I feel like we lost a panic button, and have to play the neutral game much safer now. d1 is still a decent 7f counterpoke, but d3 is fairly unsafe at 8f startup, -9 on block. Post patch, a lot of people seem to be mashing low pokes against Raiden. I have found a lot of success punishing with ji3~bf3. Make them afraid to low poke you and respect your space. Then go in and do what we have always done
 
This hasn't really been an issue for me. I feel like we lost a panic button, and have to play the neutral game much safer now. d1 is still a decent 7f counterpoke, but d3 is fairly unsafe at 8f startup, -9 on block.


jk but fuck this patch tho, has me switching to TG half the time because I needed the f1 poke
 

skrone

cold blooded
@ShaolinGunFu at least fisticuffs Johnny is the flavor of the week now. Maybe the scrubs will start weeping about that loud enough to make NRS point the nerf gun in another direction. I am salty as hell about the patch too. Mainly because they needlessly hurt displacer and MoS by the change. They should have given buffs to displacer and MoS if they were hell bent on changing f1.
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
@ShaolinGunFu at least fisticuffs Johnny is the flavor of the week now. Maybe the scrubs will start weeping about that loud enough to make NRS point the nerf gun in another direction. I am salty as hell about the patch too. Mainly because they needlessly hurt displacer and MoS by the change. They should have given buffs to displacer and MoS if they were hell bent on changing f1.
Preach my man!!!
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
What if displacer had 1 frame start up like mk9, then lowered the recovery from 29 to about 5 ish
It actually had 10 startup frames IIRC, just 9 of them were strike invulnerable. You could still be thrown out of it.
Recovery of 5 frames?.. Wait, are you suggesting a move with a full duration of what, about 7 frames that does what TP does? :p
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
This is exactly the same as the kotal sun god discussion. What sense does it make to have a variation built around a specific tool and that tool sucks. I think it's all useable but it could definitely be better. It's not easy though, small changes can make a huge difference, ex: kenshi, kotal
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
This is exactly the same as the kotal sun god discussion. What sense does it make to have a variation built around a specific tool and that tool sucks. I think it's all useable but it could definitely be better. It's not easy though, small changes can make a huge difference, ex: kenshi, kotal
I agree. When the game first came out, I was one of the Raiden players who urged others to wait and see before requesting buffs for Displacer. Well, it has been almost two months now and it is clear this variation needs tweaking. It's just too hard to use, its normal game is not great (he is missing something like TG's F1,2 for example) and the main tool it's built around is just not getting the job done. It's clear that Displacer was designed with a "Hit and Run" gameplay in mind. However, it can't hit well and it can't run well.

As things stand, there is no good reason really to pick Displacer over TG. There should be at least some match-ups where it offers advantages over the other two variations to make it useful.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
So, how does everyone feel about the f1 changes, and how they have affected him in neutral and his counterpoking? I still feel that Raiden is extremely strong but stuffing his approaches w low pokes have become much more viable against him. Will this raise the need for f4(crushes low pokes)? His only counterpoking options now are d1, d3 and b3. If pokes are blocked then his only pressure option is b1...., or 50/50 that isn't very frame tight. Let's talk about this, I'm really interested in how others feel about this.
@Chaosphere @GGA Dizzy @delbuster @brizzle @skrone and all other TG Raiden players
Definitely negatively affects his neutral. Some characters with long range low pokes mess with him in footsies pretty bad now. He's still got he vortex, great armored launchers, great punishment. But if you are speaking strictly about his neutral game, he has trouble with a lot of characters in it now. You will have to make opponent your opponent over commit or do something crazy to get that initial hit.