Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

[GGA Jeremiah]

Also why was I not tagged @GGA Jeremiah ? This got front paged and that is kind of cold lol

Nothing cold bro to my fellow Chicagoan. It was 6:30am and I was tired after I posted it. Also I didn't know if tagging would be disrespectful or not because I did not want this to be a call out thread. I wanted it to be a let's talk about stuff thread. I also knew you would see it though because you are MIT. Who cares if we disagree on this one thing. Actually I think this is the first time we have disagreed on something since 2011. So there's that.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The amount of garbage that's still in injustice after the 6 month patch should be regarded as proof that the game needs more time to be figured out before final decisions are made. With that said we need more than 6 damn months before a final balance patch. I think we can all agree on this right?

The cycle is the cycle. You can patch more or less within that time, but once they've moved on, they've moved on.

It would be great if it wasn't the final patch -- but they'd have to likely change some things about the way they work.

But the truth is, a lot of the other stuff might not have even been found if other things were still dominating the game. That's why just waiting doesn't always make as much difference as you'd think; because a lot of times people don't find new brokenness until they're forced to give their current brokenness up.

Like Theo said, The issue isn't the amount of time it takes to patch -- it's that you'll never get things perfect and you'll have to keep adjusting things as time goes on.

6 years later, Capcom is still making balance adjustments to characters that have been in SF4 since day one.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Nothing cold bro to my fellow Chicagoan. It was 6:30am and I was tired after I posted it. Also I didn't know if tagging would be disrespectful or not because I did not want this to be a call out thread. I wanted it to be a let's talk about stuff thread. I also knew you would see it though because you are MIT. Who cares if we disagree on this one thing. Actually I think this is the first time we have disagreed on something since 2011. So there's that.

Lol true, can't agree on everything of course.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

i dont think patching is a bad thing, sure i would much rather the game breathe a bit before we go ham on patching the game every 2 seconds but the thing that really kills the game is the overall scrubby attitude people have when it comes to balance changes, crying for nerfs and buffs. people tend to blame the game before they blame themselves which is where the problem lies.

 

[Tony at Home]

Its a strong mantra of any good development. Not sure why people think it ceases to apply with games.

Release early. Release often.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Release early. Release often.

I also keep trying to tell girls that this is a good thing too. They are hard to convince.

 

[Red Reaper]

Additional negatives:

Green Arrow got nerfed twice...

Bane got buffed.

Shazam got buffed.


But great thread... People really should open up to discussing the changes.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Green Arrow got nerfed twice...

Patch 1.03

Green Arrow

• Reduced the amount of block advantage on Green Arrow’s Light It Up (Back+2, 3) combo

This was a block infinite in the corner. So even though a nerf it was a positive change.

 

[Rude]

NRS has proven time and again they are unable to correctly balance fighting games. Which is fine, whatever - they are a casual fighting game company that likes to pretend they understand the competitive scene.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

However, the people on this site and in our community need to understand this. I'm not saying NRS never could be different than what they are, but currently the MK franchise is casual. But you can't expect a casual gaming company to take itself as seriously as the 1% of players who are here take them.

I suppose bottom line what I'm saying is that it's evident that NRS builds its games around "wow factor" and "coolness" to sell as much as possible to the general public. Balancing has always taken a back seat and it shows. Their patches are evidence of my argument - balance changes that are unwarranted or miss the mark completely in regards to the current meta of the game.

What I would be more concerned about is that this is even an argument. If the company whose game you support, on a competitive level no less, can't deploy balance changes that make sense...then why are you supporting them?

What a shitty, condescending, arrogant, and inaccurate attitude to have.

 

[Red Reaper]

Patch 1.03

Green Arrow

• Reduced the amount of block advantage on Green Arrow’s Light It Up (Back+2, 3) combo

This was a block infinite in the corner. So even though a nerf it was a positive change.

Not really. It had pushback.. It was basically his B13 the way it is now.

 

[haketh]

Infinites are totally fine. People getting stuck in the air and sliding all the way across the screen after using interactables.

Seems legit. Nothings busted.

An infinite on a shit character that I wonder how you're getting hit by & I haven't seen that slide glitch yet, yeah stuff like that should get adjusted in hotfixes but largeixes but I'm talking about huge game altering patches like IGAU 1.06, I can do without those for up to 6 months. So far we've got a damn solid game on our hands.

 

[M2Dave]

You have got to love the "pro patch" propaganda in the first post. While Injustice's balance changes were well-managed, with some exception. when the term "bad patching" comes to mind, most people in the NRS community think about Mortal Kombat 9 for the following obvious reasons.

Cyrax - in an attempt to address highly damaging reset combos, the result is extremely damaging reset combos and a safe buzz saw.

Ermac - telekinetic push recovery inexplicably increased by several frames due to the very early community perception that Ermac is an easy character to use and win with (i.e., "Easymac"). Ermac was ultimately never better than a mid tier character at any point in the game.

Kano - upball receives a major buff. Upball buffs are reverted two weeks later. Knife toss recovery is inexplicably increased by a couple frames. Freddy is released as a DLC a month later with better zoning than Kano ever had.

Noob - irrelevant buffs that lead ultimately to nothing. The character was too unsafe when the game was released. The character was too unsafe when the game died. Early in the game's life span, the Johnny Cage community tried to convince everybody how "broken" Noob's zoning was.

Sheeva - never received any significant buffs or changes despite everyone and their mothers knowing how horrendously bad the character was.

Skarlet - total frame data annihilation of dagger cancels as Kabal spams instant aerial gas blasts 250 MPH.

Smoke - in an attempt to address smoke bomb OTG, the result is extremely damaging reset combos. Smoke community fools and morons demand a "low that launches" to complement their overhead. Thankfully, NRS never listened.

Sub Zero - reset combos are removed. Cyrax and Smoke keep their reset combos, which ultimately end up twice as damaging as Sub Zero's. In addition, Sub Zero does not have a single mid attack that connects on low hitbox characters.

The lesson of the story is, patching is neutral. Patching can save the game, but it can also ruin it. Take your time and think about everything very carefully before you start buffing and normalizing.

 

[Big Pampering]

You have got to love the "pro patch" propaganda in the first post. While Injustice's balance changes were well-managed, with some exception. when the term "bad patching" comes to mind, most people in the NRS community think about Mortal Kombat 9 for the following obvious reasons.

Cyrax - in an attempt to address highly damaging reset combos, the result is extremely damaging reset combos and a safe buzz saw.

Ermac - telekinetic push recovery inexplicably increased by several frames due to the very early community perception that Ermac is an easy character to use and win with (i.e., "Easymac"). Ermac was ultimately never better than a mid tier character at any point in the game.

Kano - upball receives a major buff. Upball buffs are reverted two weeks later. Knife toss recovery is inexplicably increased by a couple frames. Freddy is released as a DLC a month later with better zoning than Kano ever had.

Noob - irrelevant buffs that lead ultimately to nothing. The character was too unsafe when the game was released. The character was too unsafe when the game died. Early in the game's life span, the Johnny Cage community tried to convince everybody how "broken" Noob's zoning was.

Sheeva - never received any significant buffs or changes despite everyone and their mothers knowing how horrendously bad the character was.

Skarlet - total frame data annihilation of dagger cancels as Kabal spams instant aerial gas blasts 250 MPH.

Smoke - in an attempt to address smoke bomb OTG, the result is extremely damaging reset combos. Smoke community fools and morons demand a "low that launches" to complement their overhead. Thankfully, NRS never listened.

Sub Zero - reset combos are removed. Cyrax and Smoke keep their reset combos, which ultimately end up twice as damaging as Sub Zero's. In addition, Sub Zero does not have a single mid attack that connects on low hitbox characters.

The lesson of the story is, patching is neutral. Patching can save the game, but it can also ruin it. Take your time and think about everything very carefully before you start buffing and normalizing.

I'm sure they should have hired you for testing.

 

[M2Dave]

I'm sure they should have hired you for testing.

One tester does not make or break the game. Testing is a team process that consists of dedicated and skilled players without an agenda.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

@General M2Dave brought up some solid points haha, not even going to lie.

 

[Big Pampering]

One tester does not make or break the game. Testing is a team process that consists of dedicated and skilled players without an agenda.

I see why they didnt hire you then

 

[ForeverKing]

Patches are good, but sometimes they decide to patch the game early when it's not even near fully fleshed out. Early patches are bad lol.

That leads to unnecessary nerfs of characters that were never top tier

 

[Ninj]

What a shitty, condescending, arrogant, and inaccurate attitude to have.

It's my honest opinion. The type of person who comes to this site is not the market NRS is trying to reach. The majority of players who play MKX will never check patch notes unless forced and even then will skip to only the character they play.

 

[Rude]

Itedmy honest opinion. The type of person who comes to this site is not the market NRS is trying to reach. The majority of players who play MKX will never check patch notes unless forced and even then will skip to only the character they play.

That's why they hired tournament players to test the game, in depth training mode, reversal system, delayed wake ups, so on and so forth. Because casuals do all that stuff.

Show me a relevant, 100% balanced fighter where there are no tiers and every single character goes even with every other single character.

It certainly wasn't SF4 which has been patched, re-balanced, and re-released countless times. Or BlazBlue, where Kokanoe was so broken that the community banned her from tournaments.

You will never have 100% perfect balance in a fighting game. Calling NRS casual when you see how much effort was put into the meta game of MK X is ridiculous.

 

[Scoot Magee]

That's why they hired tournament players to test the game, in depth training mode, reversal system, delayed wake ups, so on and so forth. Because casuals do all that stuff.

Show me a relevant, 100% balanced fighter where there are no tiers and every single character goes even with every other single character.

It certainly wasn't SF4 which has been patched, re-balanced, and re-released countless times. Or BlazBlue, where Kokanoe was so broken that the community banned her from tournaments.

You will never have 100% perfect balance in a fighting game. Calling NRS casual when you see how much effort was put into the meta game of MK X is ridiculous.

The thing about SF4 is it didn't really need a balance patch from Vanilla. Most balance patches came with a new release of the game until they started with AE, AE 2012 then ultra.

 

[STRYKIE]

Ermac - telekinetic push recovery inexplicably increased by several frames....

Quick correction: Somberness looked into this on an unpatched Xbox and it was -16 on block. The hitbox may have been different, but if anything it probably felt easier to deal with because we became better acquainted with MK9's movement/physics with more time.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Ermac was ultimately never better than a mid tier character at any point in the game.

Why do people say 'mid tier' like it's a dirty word? Not every character can be S+.

Every game needs its mid tier

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The thing about SF4 is it didn't really need a balance patch from Vanilla. Most balance patches came with a new release of the game until they started with AE, AE 2012 then ultra.

Ultra has had 3-4 patches already since Arcade release.

It just goes to show that you patch things as they need them, not according to a formula.

 

[Sultani]

It's my honest opinion. The type of person who comes to this site is not the market NRS is trying to reach. The majority of players who play MKX will never check patch notes unless forced and even then will skip to only the character they play.

truth. 99% of NRS income is coming from casuals that dont care about any of this stuff.

People like fatalities and bloody stuff that looks cool. Most of the target audience could give two shits about game balance.

Lol at kung jin mains being anti patch. Im not suggesting nerfs, but i still think its funny.

I dont really agree that a tester needs to be highly skilled either. It takes the willingness to actually test things that are boring to test.

Im going to keep using mileenas d1 wiffing on hit as an example until its fixed. How can testers not make sure normals dont just go through people?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Do ppl realize that when testers get one thing changed, other things pop up? Lmao there will always be glitches and bugs no matter how much u patch, that should be obvious. The testers did a great job and this game is the most balanced NRS title to date and I am very comfortable saying that.