Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

[BoromiRofGeo]

i agree with op but for what it's worth i like always evolving and changing meta. keeps interest alive.

 

[GLoRToR]

We get a patch once a month that makes everybody butthurt because it hasn't actually been properly tested before releasing it.
I'd rather wait a year longer for a game release and get Blizzard quality than this shit.

 

[LionHeart]

The average online MK player has a wireless connection with a router in a cabinet, maybe 3.00 Mbps upload, and MK requires alot more data than something like Guilty gear. Play with people who have at least a green(3) bar connection and you'll be fine. If I can land 1-2 frame links 80% of the time online then it's not that bad.

Source: A Gears of War player.

Its not about not much data need to be transfered, as it is about what happens when the data doesn't arrive on time. Obviously if you're going to play online with a person living next door and you both have godlike connection, netcode doesn't matter much. Its when you want to play with a person from a different country that matters and this directly relates to the fact that NRS netcode doesn't have fallback data or anything at all maybe to minimize input delay.

This.

I really like Ultra David. Per @General M2Dave's criteria, he's a contributor, and he is.

But, after mocking those who defend NRS' patching style on twitter, he actually goes on to claim that the removal of Cyrax's command grab bomb trap is why he quit playing Mortal Kombat 9. I mean, if that's the mind-set and logic we're dealing with, I'd rather take frequent patches any day of the week.

@UltraDavid

 

[Scott The Scot]

i agree with op but for what it's worth i like always evolving and changing meta. keeps interest alive.

Only for some, the people I play the game with are angry because there are too many patches that changes the meta and it makes them lose interest.

 

[Skkra]

Only for some, the people I play the game with are angry because there are too many patches that changes the meta and it makes them lose interest.

+1 to this. The majority of players do not find that this keeps things interesting. This is one the most cited reasons why players from other scenes drop NRS games shortly after release - it's not worth trying to stay on top in a game that is constantly morphing.

 

[Farpafraf]

We get a patch once a month that makes everybody butthurt because it hasn't actually been properly tested before releasing it.
I'd rather wait a year longer for a game release and get Blizzard quality than this shit.

I'm quite happy with the released patches, some changes did not make any sense (fisticuff JC nerfed WHY?) but overall they improved the game.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

There's nothing wrong with ironing out balance issues. Nobody nails it off the bat, we still aren't sure of a solid tiering and we are months into the game with the entire competitive scene playtesting it at this point. Starcraft 2 was released like 5 years ago, by one of the biggest, most reliable developers for delivering games of the highest quality. They are still patching every month or so, ever steadily drawing closer to their goal of perfect balance, as necessary changes get smaller and smaller.


The problem with TYM is, that people make the "Living Guide thread" or "Combo thread" with absolutely zero commitment to updating it. It's present in almost every character sub-category, and it's fckin amature as shit.


People who start the thread need to have some commitment to keeping it relevant instead of just making the initial thread to try look knowledgable or some shit and then just abandon it, or mods should unsticky their thread, find someone who is willing to commit, copy the relevant information across and keep it updated.


SZ section pretty decent all things considered, could be updated however, but most is highly on point. However if I was a fucking Reptile main I would be commandeering that shit, forum is basically one big mess of opinions, with a sprinkling of RM Cossner insulting everybody for being worse than him in every thread

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

+1 to this. The majority of players do not find that this keeps things interesting. This is one the most cited reasons why players from other scenes drop NRS games shortly after release - it's not worth trying to stay on top in a game that is constantly morphing.

do you prefer mk9 state of things? when the game is left in utmost pathetic state and left to rotten and forgotten forever?

There's nothing wrong with ironing out balance issues. Starcraft 2 was released like 5 years ago, by a one of the biggest, most reliable developers for delivering games of the highest quality. They are still patching every month or so, ever steadily drawing closer to their goal of perfect balance, as necessary changes get smaller and smaller.

this.
so many times this.
I've playing strategy games for early 00-ies since wc2/3 and then sc2. These games are constantly being patched, not because of the whim of some developer or something, but because it is a need, a necessity to keep the game alive. Change is a good thing, not only in computer games but in everything that surrounds human being and his society.
I get patching every week and changing top 5 tourney viable chars maybe not everyones cup of tea. But the majority shouldnt suffer only because 5% whore tiers are comfortable with the character pick. Most of cast's 2 out of 3 variations except top 10 chars are not even viable or outright broken.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

do you prefer mk9 state of things? when the game is left in utmost pathetic state and left to rotten and forgotten forever?

this.
so many times this.
I've playing strategy games for early 00-ies since wc2/3 and then sc2. These games are constantly being patched, not because of the whim of some developer or something, but because it is a need, a necessity to keep the game alive. Change is a good thing, not only in computer games but in everything that surrounds human being and his society.
I get patching every week and changing top 5 tourney viable chars maybe not everyones cup of tea. But the majority shouldnt suffer only because 5% whore tiers are comfortable with the character pick. Most of cast's 2 out of 3 variations except top 10 chars are not even viable or outright broken.

Yeah. And as time goes by, patching inevitably gets less drastic. And it's not so much about "keeping the game fresh" as it is the longer a game sits in one state, the more obvious any balance issues become, so then these get fixed, and we move on to a new patched state, after a while the biggest outliers to this patched state become more and blatant, and they get fixed, and so on and so forth.

It's gunna be choppy waters in the beginning. The more commitment we see from them the better, not the other way around. Let's hope they do it maturely and fairly, and stop giving in to the loudest whining without making sure its justified.

 

[WITNESS]

OP lmao should of learn the MU

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I for one think hot fixes and patches help not only balance exploited problems but it also keeps the game new feeling.

I AM one of those who say "if you can't adapt then quit."

Let's face it, look at Tanya... did anyone watch CEO? Obviously she wasn't normalized and had some exploits. These "badass" tournament players all picking Tanya HAS to tell us 2 things...

1- this game has/had exploits that tournament players, and even online players, will use to the bitter fucking end.

2- NRS stayed on top of it and patched it as quickly as possible.

I mean that patch was ALL Tanya for the most part and I'm glad they caught it.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

So as you guys have seen I'm all for the balance patches, HOWEVER... on the flip side of the coin, they need to be careful with how they do it... there is a difference between balancing out damage numbers and shit and TYM players being too lazy to stay up to date, as opposed to balance patches that completely change the way a characters BnB's work, like say D'Vorahs changes recently (at least I think this is more or less what happened with her), forcing their entire playerbase to relearn muscle memory, and making execution much less practical. Nrs DO need to be careful with this, because when they do this it it has massive repercussions, and just shows lazy patching most the time (with some exceptions)

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

So as you guys have seen I'm all for the balance patches, HOWEVER... on the flip side of the coin, they need to be careful with how they do it... there is a difference between balancing out damage numbers and shit and TYM players being too lazy to stay up to date, as opposed to balance patches that completely change the way a characters BnB's work, like say D'Vorahs changes recently (at least I think this is more or less what happened with her), forcing their entire playerbase to relearn muscle memory, and making execution much less practical. Nrs DO need to be careful with this, because when they do this it it has massive repercussions, and just shows lazy patching most the time (with some exceptions)

I can see your point, and agree for the most part. I'm a Mileena/Kenshi main and I can say when Kenshi got all those buffs it was like a new character almost. Now for the most part things just executed better for combos and such so it actually made it much easier to juggle with him

Before there were 1-2 frame spots to catch the opponent to juggle but the patch helped give him some practical-ness. I'm not a D'vorah player so I can't relate to them nerf in her cancels and such... I'm sure that is very hard to adjust to.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I should also say, to keep it fair that anyone posting tech or tech videos should either date the tech or leave a patch version visible. Thankfully YouTube has the "video added" caption already.

We can't blame NRS entirely because we as a FGC should know that games get patched, exploits are found (and people will die by them), and unfair advantages will be fixed by the dev.

So we should make a point to date/version-ize our tech so new people DON'T get confused or frustrated trying outdated tech that's been removed or patched.

 

[Jaku2011]

I kinda wish Marvel got patched like this, would've made it a hell of a lot more interesting

 

[Wrubez]

I don't necessarily mind the constant attention that NRS seems to give the game but yes, some of their patches are definitely of the "knee jerk" variety. FF Liu Kang was not overpowered in my opinion. Not going to repeat my rant from the LK forums but in a nutshell, the last patch made FF fun to play and gave him more variety. Look at top tier characters and the tools they have at their disposal vs any of Liu's variations. Even after the patch, Dragon's Fire was still better due to the blockstring pressure so......

Hope they fix this.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Their timing is stupid as hell and that's where most of the anger comes from. Seriously, who the hell release a major balance patch 3 days before the second biggest tournament the game will ever see? That was completely ridiculous.

 

[Scoot Magee]

If you go back and really read some of the early arguments in this thread you'll see how ignorant people were to a lot of stuff in this game while arguing for specific changes. This is what I'm talking about, it's not just the patches, it's the mentality of our community.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Their timing is stupid as hell and that's where most of the anger comes from. Seriously, who the hell release a major balance patch 3 days before the second biggest tournament the game will ever see? That was completely ridiculous.

I see your point and raise you:

Is it NRS fault that "tournament" players jumped on the Tanya exploit bandwagon? IF they were smart they'd have KNOWN to not get too comfortable with her release state.

At that, who even wants to see EVO if 95% of the players ride Tanya? They had to make an attempt at balancing that. I mean the most percentage of that patch was tanya.

Besides... I've heard these EVO best in the world players know everything anyway so they should be smart enough to find what works and what doesn't before the big games.

 

[IrishMantis]

well the obvious answer s scorpion

Went from great to bottom 3 in one patch

Mid tier yes

Bottom 3? lol

 

[WITNESS]

I see your point and raise you:

Is it NRS fault that "tournament" players jumped on the Tanya exploit bandwagon?

No but it's their fault for making her dumb

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

I see your point and raise you:

Is it NRS fault that "tournament" players jumped on the Tanya exploit bandwagon? IF they were smart they'd have KNOWN to not get too comfortable with her release state.

At that, who even wants to see EVO if 95% of the players ride Tanya? They had to make an attempt at balancing that. I mean the most percentage of that patch was tanya.

Besides... I've heard these EVO best in the world players know everything anyway so they should be smart enough to find what works and what doesn't before the big games.

I'm talking about before CEO. Several characters got huge changes to their gameplay and a lot of the people who went had to travel pretty large distances so they had maybe one day at max to get used to the changes. Absolutely nobody knew how to fight FF Liu Kang because of how huge his changes were, and several top D'Vorah players were dropping combos because a few days prior when the patch released they drastically increased the execution required for her combos (which they reverted back in this patch... *facepalm*).

It was completely inexcusable to change several characters so massively less than a week before a massive tournament, nobody had any time to prepare.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

The problem with TYM is, that people make the "Living Guide thread" or "Combo thread" with absolutely zero commitment to updating it. It's present in almost every character sub-category, and it's fckin amature as shit.

This!

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I'm talking about before CEO. Several characters got huge changes to their gameplay and a lot of the people who went had to travel pretty large distances so they had maybe one day at max to get used to the changes. Absolutely nobody knew how to fight FF Liu Kang because of how huge his changes were, and several top D'Vorah players were dropping combos because a few days prior when the patch released they drastically increased the execution required for her combos (which they reverted back in this patch... *facepalm*).

It was completely inexcusable to change several characters so massively less than a week before a massive tournament, nobody had any time to prepare.

Trust me I completely understand what your point is. I agree to it also.

I personally hate "tiers" especially HOW they are made and how so many stand by them like the character makes the match and not the player. Just hate sheeple.

To your point, this game is still very new and in its infancy. Players need to stick to their characters and learn MU'S with their character.

These dudes jumping on who has the easiest mixups, invincibility frames, etc need to understand THOSE won't last forever. That's simply because people exploit the holy shit out them and NRS is like "no... you're not going to rep our game like that" and they fix them (or adjust anyway).

I completely agree that changes right before a big tournament is like "wuhhh!?" But... think of this... Now those same exploitive players don't have a whole lot of time to exploit anything cause they just don't have time to find them before the tournament.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

No but it's their fault for making her dumb

So they kinda trolled the FGC