What's new

Off-Topic Discussion for the day: Should jobs that provide full Health benefits have requirements?

Well I agree w this as well but it kind of a completely different topic
BTW I do agree, companies who provide health benefits should set certain conditions to them. I mean you can pull the ''everyone has the right to have health benefits'' card, but this really only means you have to take care of yourself. People are making it seem like their freedom is getting robbed from them when they have to live a little healthier.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
You think they are making people unhealthy on purpose?
that's a whole other discussion but in short no i don't think the government is actively trying to make us unhealthy, but not taking measures to significantly improve our health. it starts at the food industry and it works its way to the health industry, we have the freedom to chose our rations and foe the most part what we eat and drink on a regular basis, it just so happens that if you chose the wrong lifestyle it becomes increasingly more difficult to stay healthy and at the end of the day is what drives our taxes and premiums up.
 

aj1701

Noob
Healthcare is not a 'reward' - it's a basic human right. And that right should apply to absolutely everyone, including those who smoke and eat a lot.
I disagree, healthcare is NOT a human right. What your saying is that you have a right which SOMEONE ELSE needs to provide. There is no other right like that; no one needs to provide you with whatever you need to exercise free speech, for example. Your right insofar as health goes is to be able to make informed decisions on what kind of life style you are living. You have a right to eat if you want, but it does not force me to provide you with food. you need to get your food yourself.

The difference is that careless drivers directly endanger other people's lives, whereas, say, eating at McDonalds frequently doesn't.
But what you're suggesting deprives people of what they have rightfully earned, and people cannot forcefully deprive people of their rights to benefit another. A socialist is fine with that because individuals are not important, society is looked at as a whole. That's not the thinking this country was founded on though, and socialism tends not to work out very well.

The thing about smoking and drinking is that they're very addictive - most folks that get addicted want to stop, but struggle to do so. And many people have food addiction too, which is doubly hard to deal with since going 'cold turkey' isn't an option.
I drink on weekends, but I'm not addicted, so the fact that someone could be addicted is irrelevant. And this will sound cold, but quite frankly someone else's addiction is their problem, not mine. I have enough of my own problems, I don't want to be dragged into others issues. And your point about addition is irrelevant as I've said, most obese people are not addicted, they don't know know, care or both about being healthy.

Making a cut-and-dry statement that people who 'do all the wrong things healthwise' don't deserve any help on that front is seriously lacking in compassion.
So be it. Honestly, I'm tired of this culture of excuses we're in. I don't see many people worrying about helping me fix my problems. And quite frankly, I'm ok with that. As a free, responsible citizen of my country, I will figure out my own issues.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
BTW I do agree, companies who provide health benefits should set certain conditions to them. I mean you can pull the ''everyone has the right to have health benefits'' card, but this really only means you have to take care of yourself. People are making it seem like their freedom is getting robbed from them when they have to live a little healthier.
If they set conditions that have to be met before you can get insurance, that would be discrimination.

The only thing the company can control, is how much they pay and how much the employee pays for the same service.
 

aj1701

Noob
State farm offers you a "safe driving bonus check" for not having any incidents. That's a positive incentive to not drive like an asshole.

I don't understand what you don't understand.
Have two accidents (or maybe even one) and your rates will skyrocket. So the stick incentive isn't gone.
 
I feel more stuff like this needs to happen. A lot of people NEED something that forces them to be more active/less lazy, eat healthier, work harder, doing better at school, be more social, fit into society better etc. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I know a lot of people who are stuck in that ''zone'' and unless there is something that will force them/push them to start doing something, they will be stuck in that zone for a LONG time and maybe forever.

The government keeps coming up with a lot of new stupid stuff every year that will make our life harder for no reason(or reasons that really only benefits the government themselves), it's time they did something that would actually benefit the people.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
I disagree, healthcare is NOT a human right. What your saying is that you have a right which SOMEONE ELSE needs to provide. There is no other right like that; no one needs to provide you with whatever you need to exercise free speech, for example. Your right insofar as health goes is to be able to make informed decisions on what kind of life style you are living. You have a right to eat if you want, but it does not force me to provide you with food. you need to get your food yourself.



But what you're suggesting deprives people of what they have rightfully earned, and people cannot forcefully deprive people of their rights to benefit another. A socialist is fine with that because individuals are not important, society is looked at as a whole. That's not the thinking this country was founded on though, and socialism tends not to work out very well.



I drink on weekends, but I'm not addicted, so the fact that someone could be addicted is irrelevant. And this will sound cold, but quite frankly someone else's addiction is their problem, not mine. I have enough of my own problems, I don't want to be dragged into others issues. And your point about addition is irrelevant as I've said, most obese people are not addicted, they don't know know, care or both about being healthy.



So be it. Honestly, I'm tired of this culture of excuses we're in. I don't see many people worrying about helping me fix my problems. And quite frankly, I'm ok with that. As a free, responsible citizen of my country, I will figure out my own issues.
Wow , sorry sir but you need to experience living in another part of the world.

What you are saying is messed up on so many levels.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
Goods and services in exchange for goods and services is a pretty old concept.

The town baker won't give you bread for nothing.

The town tailor won't give you clothes for nothing.

Why does the town doctor have to give you medicine or care for nothing?
Not everyone has access to a good $$$ job , you shouldn't deny a human basic right to LIVE decently. Do you have no heart?
 

aj1701

Noob
that is a law actually
Not quite, there is an exemption for small restaurants that have at most a few locations. the realty is that only big chain restaurants do, which there are only a few of if you look at all the local ones around. I really think people will skip mcds because its unhealthy but then have a more unhealthy burger at a local restaurant that doesn't need to post nutrition data.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
You should contribute something instead of posting vague insults.
Not insulting the guy itself ( you ) , but the mentality is dangerous.

Nationalized health care is the more human way to go , do you even care if a part of your ( and everyone ) taxes goes into healthcare for everyone?

Here's my countrys' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Italy

Think about being poor or working class having to dime every $ you have to make it to next month with minimum savings and you don't have healthcare insurance. Common sense goes a long way.
 
Last edited:

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
\
Type 2 yes, but type 1 is genetic. I think theres also diabetes caused by pregnancy that ends when the pregnancy does.
i thought that went without saying, considering type 1 would count as "preexisting conditions" per the OP. I've also seen that occasionally women who become diabetic during pregnancy can keep it after birth, unfortunately
 

aj1701

Noob
Not insulting the guy itself , but the mentality is dangerous.

Nationalized health care is the more human way to go , do you even care if a part of your ( and everyone ) taxes goes into healthcare for everyone?

Here's my countrys' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Italy

Think about being poor or working class having to dime every $ you have to make it to next month with minimum savings and you don't have healthcare insurance. Common sense goes a long way.
I don't believe in entitlements because it causes people to depend on the system, not themselves. That's the most dangerous thing you can do, because when you depend on others to provide your basic necessities you are giving them your freedom.

Italy's healthcare looks similar to other European healthcare, and Canada. you'll be interested to know we have about 10% of patients in our childrens hospital here because of your healthcare system. one kid from England is here because after he was treated for cancer in the uk, it went into remission. when he came out of remission, uk refused to treat (only wanted to do hospice), so his parents brought him here to be treated.

I'll also point out that while the US economic recovery is going fairly well, Europe is still at risk for going back into recession. Have you considered that's a result of the burdens of you're entitlement system? Your argument seems to be alot of the world is doing it, so we should too. I'm reminded of a saying about all my friends jumping off a bridge...
 

aj1701

Noob

Crathen

Death is my business
I don't believe in entitlements because it causes people to depend on the system, not themselves. That's the most dangerous thing you can do, because when you depend on others to provide your basic necessities you are giving them your freedom.

Italy's healthcare looks similar to other European healthcare, and Canada. you'll be interested to know we have about 10% of patients in our childrens hospital here because of your healthcare system. one kid from England is here because after he was treated for cancer in the uk, it went into remission. when he came out of remission, uk refused to treat (only wanted to do hospice), so his parents brought him here to be treated.

I'll also point out that while the US economic recovery is going fairly well, Europe is still at risk for going back into recession. Have you considered that's a result of the burdens of you're entitlement system? Your argument seems to be alot of the world is doing it, so we should too. I'm reminded of a saying about all my friends jumping off a bridge...
So you're saying everyone can be indipendent healthcare-wise?Give everyone a good $$$ job. Does this match reality? Nope.

"Our" healthcare system doesn't put a burden only on one to find a job w health insurance , everyone pays a right fee for a service everyone has access to. If they're not satisfied w it there are even better and quicker healthcare services in change of more money.

Your single experience is bound to happen for a plethora of reasons , doesn't mean US healthcare is overall better than "ours".

I don't even wanna get into the economic discussion.

It is cheapest to eat healthy though, and really the number on cause of healthcare problems is diet.
False.

Try reaching 3000-4000 calories per day ( heavy physical work ) eating "healty" without spending more money that you would w a mcdonald calories bomb known as hamburgers.

A balanced diet has many "expensive" foods , vegetables , fish, good meat , dairy products , fruit , cereals and so on and you gotta vary most days. It's not easy HERE in Italy where we have so many healthy foods / diets , how can it be easier in US.
 

aj1701

Noob
So you're not going to draw your social security? That's welfare?
So you're going to pay for your own firefighting service? Fire dept is welfare?
So you're going to pay for a private security force at your house? Police are welfare?
And when you're old and can no longer work, or if you become disabled you will just die since you don't believe in healthcare and you don't believe in taking care of disabled people.

No more govt. funded research either, right? That's welfare, too.
First, this is what welfare is, not whatever nonsense you're claiming it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare

I don't expect ill be able to get SS because it will be bankrupt. However the premise is you contribute to it your working life and then later take back out, much like other individual retirement plans but the government gets to decide how much and if I get and I'm forced to participate.
I pay for my fire department with property taxes.
I pay for police with taxes as well.
I am saving on my own for retirement. kinda funny, the gov't is limiting how much I can put in my ira each year. wonder why..
Again, Medicare is something you pay for while you're working for future benefits.
So my paying for a service for me is not an entitlement, but taking money from me to pay for someone else benefit is.

At any rate, this thread is about healthcare and what to do with people who are irresponsible with their own health.
 

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
So you're saying everyone can be indipendent healthcare-wise?Give everyone a good $$$ job. Does this match reality? Nope.

"Our" healthcare system doesn't put a burden only on one to find a job w health insurance , everyone pays a right fee for a service everyone has access to. If they're not satisfied w it there are even better and quicker healthcare services in change of more money.

Your single experience is bound to happen for a plethora of reasons , doesn't mean US healthcare is overall better than "ours".

I don't even wanna get into the economic discussion.



False.

Try reaching 3000-4000 calories per day ( heavy physical work ) eating "healty" without spending more money that you would w a mcdonald calories bomb known as hamburgers.

A balanced diet has many "expensive" foods , vegetables , fish, good meat , dairy products , fruit , cereals and so on and you gotta vary most days. It's not easy HERE in Italy where we have so many healthy foods / diets , how can it be easier in US.
I work at McD's, so I think I can offer a bit of insight here on price. 2 people both getting a value meal often costs about 10-12 dollars. If you walk into a grocery store, do you know what you can buy with 10-12 dollars? You could get any variety of frozen vegetable, a whole chicken or chicken breasts frozen, a loaf of bread, and a bunch of bananas, for starters. I don't know about Italy but right here in the middle of Illinois it's cheaper to eat in than to visit a fast food joint
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Goods and services in exchange for goods and services is a pretty old concept.

The town baker won't give you bread for nothing.

The town tailor won't give you clothes for nothing.

Why does the town doctor have to give you medicine or care for nothing?
Not everyone has access to a good $$$ job , you shouldn't deny a human basic right to LIVE decently. Do you have no heart?
Chaos theory confirmed tinman