Not the Character, The Player

[Yes_Zir]

So, I'm not sure if there's been a thread on this before (or where to put this thread), but i'm sure it's been touched on before in some capacity. And it's that, fighting games have become less about the player and more about the character they use.

Granted, there are certain tools a character has that potentially dictate where their game is the strongest or how much more effective they are, at what range, with this string or that one, because of the frame advantage or whatever, but I feel that that type of thinking poses a lack of originality.

Obviously, you have your top players, but it's become so weird to see everybody relying on their play styles and not doing something more refreshing. Everybody wants to be Sonicfox, Pig of the Hut, REO, Tom Brady, Perfect Legend, Team YOMI (these are in no order, just as they come to mind), and etc... and less people want to innovate their own type of play style. And, I get it, these are the people that are out there destroying competition, placing high in majors, and what they do when they're out there playing these characters is amazing...

...But it's so much more refreshing to see a Sub Zero playing like Emperor Rebelo and not just hiding behind clones, or a Jacqui Briggs that hits you in the face and doesn't get blown up trying to zone you out, or when (in MK9) Ermac applies insane amounts of pressure up close when people say he's defensive and more effective zoning.

And i'm not downplaying anybody, I just feel that top players set up a sort of archetype that's relied on and nobody is trying to do their own thing and it kind of kills a match when you know what you're opponent is going to go for before the match starts simply because of who they pick. There is definitely enough variety in the characters given for everybody not to have the exact same strategy or a mimicked one they picked up watching matches of somebody playing a character versus putting in time to figure out something else. And it's terrifying thinking that that's what wins the match is the settling point.

Just discussion.

 

[Iustinus]

Some people play to win.

 

[Braindead]

Wow the phrase "hiding behind clones" is still used?

 

[HeroesNZ]

Usually people gravitate towards the best way of playing their character.

I mean I could try and use Outlaw Erron as a zoner but it wouldn't be a very effective strategy.

 

[WakeUp DP]

You must be a 09r, no one seats behind ice clones anymore.

 

[Yes_Zir]

Usually people gravitate towards the best way of playing their character.

I mean I could try and use Outlaw Erron as a zoner but it wouldn't be a very effective strategy.

That sarcasm. ^_^

 

[Yes_Zir]

Wow the phrase "hiding behind clones" is still used?

I could change it. But it's more a figure of speech.

 

[Yes_Zir]

You must be a 09r, no one seats behind ice clones anymore.

Again... Could change the wording, but it's a figure of speech. Also, not familiar with the term "09r"

Is there though, any contribution to the discussion?

 

[NissanZaxima]

I should forward this to the scrub quotes Twitter account.

 

[Yes_Zir]

Some people play to win.

That's true. I think that, long term, that kills what a game could be. What wins wins, yeah, but the excitement of it goes.

 

[Juggs]

X copying has been around forever and will be around forever. There's specific, optimal strategies in fighting games because there's a limit to what you can realistically do. A player doing well with a character in tournament has obviously found a strategy that works, so it's only natural that others incorporate that into their own game play.

We are a community, we learn from each other. That's how it's supposed to be.

 

[ando1184]

We'll NRS games are a little more one dimentional on how characters are disigned compared to other fighting games. That's why the variant system exists in the first place. It's actually the community (players) responsibility to branch out and play the different variations. So if it's looking like everything is stale, it's the community's fault. Just saying......

 

[Yes_Zir]

X copying has been around forever and will be around forever. There's specific, optimal strategies in fighting games because there's a limit to what you can realistically do. A player doing well with a character in tournament has obviously found a strategy that works, so it's only natural that others incorporate that into their own game play.

We are a community, we learn from each other. That's how it's supposed to be.

Incorporating strategy into game play is one thing, but generally what happens is that it's more extreme and players just copy the play style. I get there's only so much you can do in a fighting game, but there's still more that can be found when one player doesn't let those strategies completely dictate how a character should be played. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Just saying there's more to it and that caters to more excitement than looking at the same strategies from the same characters regardless of the player.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

I don't really play like most other people, I screw around and figure out how I like to play, sometimes it helps me win because I play a bit unorthodox so people are not ready for my non cookie cutter style.

 

[roosTakk]

People like to blame the character, rather than acknowledge when someone is better than them or they have been bested.

It all comes down to ego basically. Nothing new..in fighting games or anywhere else.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Again... Could change the wording, but it's a figure of speech. Also, not familiar with the term "09r"

Is there though, any contribution to the discussion?

My contribution is that you might think you are clever by blowing us subz players up with nice wording but you are not.

We can see through your biased opinions.

 

[Yes_Zir]

My contribution is that you might think you are clever but blowing us subz players with nice wording but you are not.

That doesn't make sense.

Emperor Rebelo plays Sub. I gave Props to how he plays. It was a matter of how Sub is used versus how he can be used. Using a comparison between Rebelo and what's generally seen during a match versus Sub.

The entire thread isn't about bashing at all. Definitely not character bashing. It's more about promoting more potential, originality, and excitement from uses of characters versus copied strategies being the end goal.

 

[VenomX-90]

Finally someone understands, and no one wants to be like them its just that they are good thats it etc. Any person can put the same amount of time and effort as they do and be good as well, nothing special.

 

[Juggs]

Incorporating strategy into game play is one thing, but generally what happens is that it's more extreme and players just copy the play style. I get there's only so much you can do in a fighting game, but there's still more that can be found when one player doesn't let those strategies completely dictate how a character should be played. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Just saying there's more to it and that caters to more excitement than looking at the same strategies from the same characters regardless of the player.

I understand what you're saying, but in regards to MKX, this is how it's going to be for awhile. The game is still relatively new, so the same play styles are going to be seen more often than unique ones. It's boring and not ideal, but when you want to win uniqueness is more of an after thought than anything.

 

[WakeUp DP]

For starters Pig isn't even the best example of someone we would like to be since everyone knows that he is one of the biggest cry babies with a huge diva complex. Cant even do well with buffed Kenshi while other kenshi players do so much better than he does. He also has the audacity to call out Reptile players for crying about their main while when it comes to crying he is the loudest lol.

Tom brady while he is the best Subz doesn't ever even make top8 and is a joke to most at the moment.

 

[MadPropz101]

I'm more disappointed with how people can absolutely dominate with mindless characters and other people will still call them "gods" and think their skill is unmatched.

 

[Mark von Zoftmutter]

What bothers me the most is top players picking same 5 characters all the time. Everyone just plays top tiers and watching same characters over and over again is boring. Especially characters like kung lao, sonya, cassie, kung jin, liu kang etc. Especially those special forces and white lotus characters gets on my nerves the most cause they're already the most boring characters in the game by their design. It just so happens that they tend to be also the most powerfull in mk9 and mkx. Then we also have Erron black, scorpion, quan chi and occasional grandmaster sub.

I've read somewhere back in the days of mk9 that Reo himself allegedly said that when he starts playing a fighting game, he goes straight to the most powerful top tier character in the game cause he wants to win tournaments and he'll do everything to maximize his chances. Ok that's completely understandable and logical, but imagine what would happen if everyone just played erron blacks and kung laos. Well why would designers even bother making other characters, why not just make a game with 5 characters which would all be top tier. Yes I understand the goal of every fighting game is to be as balanced as possible, but making every character equally good is nearly impossible. I always held the most respect for guys who played lower tier characters because their liked the character and many of them proved in the past that winning tournaments with lower tier characters is indeed possible. I'm pretty sure a super talented player like SonicFox could do very well with low tier character as well. Maybe not Goro but lets not talk about that. The problem is that noone wants to risk anything in order to be original. If a very talented player picks a lower tier character and trains hard with that character he could even have a competitive edge in some cases cause a lot of people don't even know enough about such characters. I respect all top players and I don't know how the situation is in other fg communities, but it seems that in NRS community, we don't have any top players brave enough to pick some new characters. That's also a problem for casual players who look up for good tournament footage for their character of choice, but are often unable to find any matches cause nobody plays that character.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

I'm more disappointed with how people can absolutely dominate with mindless characters and other people will still call them "gods" and think their skill is unmatched.

Example?

 

[Juggs]

Finally someone understands, and no one wants to be like them its just that they are good thats it etc. Any person can put the same amount of time and effort as they do and be good as well, nothing special.

This is simply untrue, and a fallacy that seems to only apply to competitive gaming. Would you ever say this about Basketball, Football, Soccer, etc? Talent exists, which is why there's consistent top players across multiple games. If anyone could do it with practice, you'd see more randomized results. Which doesn't happen, you consistently see the same people placing and/or doing well. This isn't to say that any random person can't be better than these top players, but it takes more than just practice to become a top player.

 

[MadPropz101]

Example?

I'm not going to give out any names...