MK9 vs MK10 gameplay mechanics: what they should keep, change, take out etc.

[saix88]

Stance Change should be dropped in favor of Draw Weapon, i.e. I want Raiden to have dat hammer from MK4.

Think that would make for some interesting kombos, disable specials when weapons are out.

They should put the meter below the health bar.

 

[Vilén]

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious.

I would love to smack some bitches with a hammer though.

 

[bipolar_shango]

Why so that some characters can get out for free for 1 meter? I thought in fighting games you are supposed to have the advantage when you knock your opponent down?

1 meter ain't "Free" brother

 

[OZombiePenguinO]

This is sort of like the wishlist but more focused on the gameplay mechanics of MK9 and what you liked or hated about them. This way, if NRS decides to read threads like these, it'll be easier on them. I am going to make a list of things they should keep, change and get rid of. (imo)


Keep
-The meter management: best meter in any fighting game period, it makes the game more consistent it seems with the way breakers work
-X-ray attacks: They are perfect the way they are in this game, not an annoying inconsistent comeback mechanic that hurts a good player but something a player can use without worrying about a breaker. And easy enough for a casual player to enjoy
-Tag team and tag team online: Good for casual players to screw around.
-DLC characters should carry over to the next MK fighting game



Change:
-Button Config: There should be a way to change your buttons at the character select screen
-Training Mode: Waaaaay too many things to list here, but I think the most important thing is options, you should be able to record something your opponent does so you can practice against it. Also it needs to save the changes you do to it.
-Option screen should give you you the ability to turn off the blood, turn on tournament mode etc. Basically, give us options to turn on and off kombat codes without actually using them at the vs screen.
-HITBOXES having 3d hitboxes in a 2d playing field just doesn't work out.
-Online play netcode is very very bad
Take out:
-Toasty boost: I don't think this has happened in a tournament yet (thank goodness) but its a mechanic that can make the game more random so take it out.
-Random shaking and other distractions on stages that may make a player lose concentration. (kratos stage sucks)
-Console exclusive characters (unless its on a portable system because fighting game tournaments don't use portable systems)

Wow, I didn't expect to agree with everything you said. I don't think this is even debatable haha, you're just plain correct on all of these. Also, what are the conditions for the toasty boost? I got it once in my approximate 6,000 or so matches

 

[OZombiePenguinO]

Think that would make for some interesting kombos, disable specials when weapons are out.

They should put the meter below the health bar.

And yeah, I would certainly welcome two different fighting styles that you can toggle between again if done right. Not everyone has to have a weapon, perhaps just different move sets. Imagine being able to cancel into the style toggle as well, that'd make for really cool combos / set ups

For instance, let's say Kenshi's in the game. His hand-to-hand fighting style is his default one, not much else to say. He plays how he plays. But his alternate style is with his sword. He now has different / better normals, but at the price of something like special moves / meter use.

Let's say Johnny Cage is in. His alternate fighting style includes grapples and parries that his default one doesn't have. After finishing a combo, he cancels into his alternate style, the foe does a wake up attack, and gets parried.

You all know that's brilliance right there

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

The return of Weapon Kombat would be glorious. (I WANT BACK ERMAC'S AXE.)
But instead of different fighting styles, why not this...
A 2nd meter bar - think Rage Of The Titans in God Of War 2, or the transformation bar in Bloody Roar - that charges the same or similar to regular meter, but instead of 3 levels, it counts as time you can spend in Weapon Style. Maybe 2 bars, and if you get to the 2nd one, it counts as double time, or maybe not...
Fill it, AND regular meter, at the same time, and you get a 2nd, weapon-based X-Ray attack, while their 1st normal bar-based attack would be more elemental to their strength or powers.

 

[aj1701]

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious.

I would love to smack some bitches with a hammer though.

I thought you were at first. I forgot who was posting though

To the others, I personally don't miss the weapons or the fighting styles. They never felt right in MK.

 

[Vilén]

I thought you were at first. I forgot who was posting though

Cute.

If this was a series produced by... hmm, lets say Arc System Works, I would be deadly serious about the return of weapons. But it's not, it's produced by NRS. I see lots, and lots, and lots of really stupid shit happening with the ability to toggle fighting styles and weapons (primarily because I remember Mortal Kombat when you could toggle fighting styles and weapons). The potential benefit I would find in having Raiden with his hammer is grossly outweighed by the fear I have of getting exactly what I wish for.

Catch the drift?

 

[NariTuba]

And yeah, I would certainly welcome two different fighting styles that you can toggle between again if done right. Not everyone has to have a weapon, perhaps just different move sets. Imagine being able to cancel into the style toggle as well, that'd make for really cool combos / set ups

I dont mean to put you down or anything... but you DO know this is exactly how the 3D MKs worked right? Two and even three stances per character with different movesets that could be changed mid combo.

Back on topic:

Besides all the already obvious things mentioned here, Id add the following:

I would get rid of Xrays... honestly they are not that useful and not worth the meter in most cases, plus the animations get old quick. Instead I would like to see something more rewarding for using all three bars.

Maybe some sort of "rage mode" mechanic that changes the properties of your move set. For example your pokes and pressure strings become plus on block (intentional block infinites!) your uppercut recovery is reduced so you can juggle with it, your projectiles become faster and more damaging or unblockable, you are granted armor that can take one or two hits, you dash faster, etc...

It could be different for each character depending on move set and would purposefully make you OP for a certain ammount of time and/or until death. Activating it is very likely to give you the round but will cost you the entire meter and will be dependent on your execution, which will allow to keep the game fresh and interesting. Noobs will activate it and use uppercuts and a damage boosted throw for example, but pro players would be coming up with the sickest combos. Imagine two pro players activating at the same time on round 3! awesome possibilities

 

[Vilén]

I dont mean to put you down or anything... but you DO know this is exactly how the 3D MKs worked right? Two and even three stances per character with different movesets that could be changed mid combo.

Back on topic:

Besides all the already obvious things mentioned here, Id add the following:

I would get rid of Xrays... honestly they are not that useful and not worth the meter in most cases, plus the animations get old quick. Instead I would like to see something more rewarding for using all three bars.

Maybe some sort of "rage mode" mechanic that changes the properties of your move set. For example your pokes and pressure strings become plus on block (intentional block infinites!) your uppercut recovery is reduced so you can juggle with it, your projectiles become faster and more damaging or unblockable, you are granted armor that can take one or two hits, you dash faster, etc...

It could be different for each character depending on move set and would purposefully make you OP for a certain ammount of time and/or until death. Activating it is very likely to give you the round but will cost you the entire meter and will be dependent on your execution, which will allow to keep the game fresh and interesting. Noobs will activate it and use uppercuts and a damage boosted throw for example, but pro players would be coming up with the sickest combos. Imagine two pro players activating at the same time on round 3! awesome possibilities

Yeah, I always thought what was hurting the balance of Mortal Kombat was that every character lacked their own personal Genei-Jin.

 

[Sasuga]

Besides from the obvious improvements the game needs (everything RoGE said in his post), I wouldn't want to change to much about it. I just want it to be more solid and durable; build an engine that they can use for years to come. Keep the DLC coming and keep people from making wishlists about the next version when the game is barely a year old.

 

[Noob Saibot]

Dude just let me roll forward

 

[Big Pampering]

Okay guess, there is this game I had been playing for years: its called naruto ultimate ninja 5 for ps2.

Now before you guess blow me up on this. I have to say this is one of the most solid games I have ever played next to all the other main fighting games.

The balance of characters is really good and apart from a few things in the games, I have to say it is even more solid than Mk right now with all the bugs.

If you can find a copy, u should really try it. watch this fullarmorbass youtube channel and you will know what I mean when I say this is an incredibly solid and enjoyable game, and absolutely tournament worthy.

MK10 can really learn of some of the mechanics of this game.

 

[SLy]

better Training Mode..I would rather Record my AI than record my combos..Therefore I could gain more matchup knowledge of what works and what dosent.

I really dont mind the current grab system but I would really like a new one. Theres really no way to Legitimately tech grabs in this game..Its a 50/50 in most cases.

 

[Protagonist_1]

I want improved AI....and ghost battles like tekken 6, so I will never have to go online again or play nothing but arcade mode.

 

[bipolar_shango]

Maybe i'm getting old and blind but.... i would like it if the Meter was next to the life bar. I find it difficult monitoring my meter, enemies meter, enemies life bar, may life bar at Four different corners of the screen.

 

[DownfouralitY]

I love this engine: I hope they stay with it for atleast the next game. If they do a new training mode, better recordings etc. Fix the online, fix everything that was wrong in this game, and keep the engine, I would think it would be a great seller again.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Maybe i'm getting old and blind but.... i would like it if the Meter was next to the life bar. I find it difficult monitoring my meter, enemies meter, enemies life bar, may life bar at Four different corners of the screen.

...That's actually a pretty damn good idea.

You'd be able to focus on basically 2 bar areas instead of 4 and have more focus to concentrate on your opponent.

Win. Banana dance time. :moonwalk:

 

[TyrantRevolver]

Vilen I like your sarcasm - wholly appropriate.

The "Rage" mode idea is unfortunately, much like a lot of other recent fighter mechanics - a bad rash of a comeback mechanic concept. Such additions like what you find in Tekken (damage boost when you reach red life), or X-factor in MVC3 have done more to ruin fighting games in recent years than I care to even think about. These kind of mechanics feel tacked on and generally scream laziness on the part of fighting game developers. The ability to "comeback" should be something evolved from the base frame of a fighting games system. Not some "please save me now" button. It's mechanics like these that eliminate the "thinking" part of the game. And experienced players almost always break the hell out of these sorts of mechanics because they do think.


Also leave weapons stance where it is, in the past. Stance change needs to be dropped imo, but not for that.

The game should remain mostly unchanced except for a lot of universal arguments like training mode's lacking of options and inconsistencies.

My 1 suggestion: The throw break system needs to be tweaked. As it stands throws still have far too much supremacy in this game. Make the break input universal (throw command input would do fine) or allow breaking while holding block. One or the other.

 

[Vilén]

My 1 suggestion: The throw break system needs to be tweaked. As it stands throws still have far too much supremacy in this game. Make the break input universal (throw command input would do fine) or allow breaking while holding block. One or the other.

You would never throw anybody at high level ever. The throws in this game are fine. The only fighters with a better throw system are Guilty Gear and SF2. I don't like games designed to prevent me from throwing anyone with even slightly decent reactions because low level players get destroyed by them.

Ever since the last patch brought the change that after a blocked jump-punch, if you read the throw, you can uppercut your opponent away or cross them up and punish the throw attempt for full fucking combo, rather than just trying to tech the throw, the system is just fine. It's nice to be able to punish people who are just sitting there blocking with a throw... which is actually why throws exist in fighting games in the first place.

If you find yourself getting thrown while you're blocking, it's because you're blocking too much. Rather than just chilling out with your finger/thumb on the block button, try some down pokes. They beat every throw clean. And 9/10 times somebody goes for a throw you can gauge which button to tech with just based on positioning.

 

[Prinz]

I think this list is going to grow in a half a year Who knows what bugs the community might find
Anyway, I'd like to add that the game needs to become more solid in the form that it is right now, then they might add one more style, two more weapons, three more hats etc.

But, looking back at the History of, let's say Street Fighter, which has 20 omnipresent characters + 1 omnipresent storyline (be it different, it really didn't matter) + 1 omnipresent fighting mechanic in comparison with Mortal Kombat with new characters in each game + a 20 YEARS EVOLVING CONTINUOUS storyline + i don't know how many game mechanics (but seems like pretty much every 2-3 games) I really don't see how they are going to keep the next MK the same as MK9.

I really, really would like the next MK to be UMK9 just because I love this game and the new approach it brought to the MK franchise. Imagine rebirth of MK4+DA+D in MK10: new characters (a lot of them), new fighting styles (I really think they are going to bring weapons back), new world interactions (like traps, throwable objects etc.) - this is a completely new game man. I really don't want to see another bugged, glitched MK. I really, really don't.

Now, the post is long, but it's from my bloody warrior heart.

Long live the Emperor and Fatality to you all mortals!

 

[Muffinmuggers]

great game, screw Online. dedicated servers. enough said.. great game, i wouldnt change anything but the practice mode and etc.

 

[TyrantRevolver]

You would never throw anybody at high level ever. The throws in this game are fine. The only fighters with a better throw system are Guilty Gear and SF2. I don't like games designed to prevent me from throwing anyone with even slightly decent reactions because low level players get destroyed by them.

Ever since the last patch brought the change that after a blocked jump-punch, if you read the throw, you can uppercut your opponent away or cross them up and punish the throw attempt for full fucking combo, rather than just trying to tech the throw, the system is just fine. It's nice to be able to punish people who are just sitting there blocking with a throw... which is actually why throws exist in fighting games in the first place.

If you find yourself getting thrown while you're blocking, it's because you're blocking too much. Rather than just chilling out with your finger/thumb on the block button, try some down pokes. They beat every throw clean. And 9/10 times somebody goes for a throw you can gauge which button to tech with just based on positioning.

You sure are full of assumptions aren't you? I poke plenty.....hell, that "is" the throw break in this game - your too much blocking statement is uniformed in this case. You're taking it out of context. In most fighting games I have played, throw breaks serve a purpose. In this game they aren't affective. It makes no sense to attempt a throw break and risk eating a combo, and than also have to guess what throw to break in the process. Positioning? Even taking this into consideration is not enough to defend this. You're trading "possible" mitigation of 12% vs what you could be eating in terms of a combo. The risk/reward in attempting throw breaks is faulty in this game. They serve little purpose.

I didn't say "throws" need to be tweaked. I said the "throw break system" needs to be tweaked. As it stands now stuffing throw attempts with pokes makes throw breaking pointless - the actual throw break mechanism is useless by comparison. You more or less validated the problem with the system with your statements. Yes lets all poke. And never attempt a throw break.

Never throw anyone at high level "ever"........yeah, keep telling yourself that.

I've been playing Guilty Gear for ages. Since ps1 era. Fighting games at "high level" for ages for that matter. I'm quite familiar with throws and their purpose in fighting games. NRS made a study of other tried and true fighting game mechanics and for the most part was successful. Not with throw breaks. And that's not a matter of opinion, its a fact.

And GG and SF are not the only fighting games with better throw break systems.....in fact you don't have to try very hard to find other fighting games with better throw break systems..... I love MK, but there is a definite error in the way these are implemented in this game.

 

[Vilén]

You sure are full of assumptions aren't you? I poke plenty.....hell, that "is" the throw break in this game

So now I'm lost as to why you want a different throw break system. Throw breaking shouldn't even exist in a game where you have these down pokes.

Never throw anyone at high level "ever"........yeah, keep telling yourself that.

I promise you. Between the power of down pokes and the ten frames of start-up on throws, not to mention the fact you have to go into them naked, if you had a universal tech button you could break almost every throw on reaction easily. If you don't believe me, watch high level BlazBlue. And that's an even smaller break window.

Throwing is fine in this game. I don't think throws should break at all unless two people throw at exactly the same time, down to the frame. As long as down poking is a thing.

I'll concede exaggeration in the statement "And 9/10 times somebody goes for a throw you can gauge which button to tech with just based on positioning", however.

 

[TyrantRevolver]

So now I'm lost as to why you want a different throw break system. Throw breaking shouldn't even exist in a game where you have these down pokes.



I promise you. Between the power of down pokes and the ten frames of start-up on throws, not to mention the fact you have to go into them naked, if you had a universal tech button you could break almost every throw on reaction easily. If you don't believe me, watch high level BlazBlue. And that's an even smaller break window.

Throwing is fine in this game. I don't think throws should break at all unless two people throw at exactly the same time, down to the frame. As long as down poking is a thing.

I'll concede exaggeration in the statement "And 9/10 times somebody goes for a throw you can gauge which button to tech with just based on positioning", however.

Alright here's my issue with throw breaks expanded: Technically, yes - pokes are just a better answer to stuff throw attempts. However, we do have throw breaks. As of right now, they are useless. Throw breaks exist in other fighting games and....serve a purpose even though pokes are generally a superior answer as well. Well in other fighting games.......throw breaks are an "option" because the risk vs. reward aspect of attempting a throw break for lack of a better word, works. The disparity between using a poke and using a throw break isn't as large. So if we're going to have throw breaks I feel they should be tweaked. I don't have a problem with options. I just want my options to be "useful."

Other fighting games have managed to pull this off. I feel this is possible in MK as well. I've watched high level BB as well. I actually enjoyed the game for a time though I prefer Guilty Gear. However even knowing that throws have this much startup......doesn't stop them from happening in high level play in MK. It is a valid pressure/mixup tool - even at high level. You're still going to see high level players getting thrown. Throws aren't just a tool to weed out scrubs unable to respond quickly enough.

I was fine with 3rd strike and Tekken's throw break systems as well. And yet, players still get thrown. The break is a valid option. And the throw is not obsolete as a result. Unfortunately, its not like this in MK.......I dunno, I just think it needs to be looked at again.

We disagree on some things which is fine.

This doesn't make or break the game for me, but myself and others I play with agree that it would help to have throw breaks re-examined and subsequenty tweaked to merit their use.