MK9 Most Current Tier List Thread: Updated 9/1/2011

[Rathalos]

People use S tier because it sounds cooler then A tier, and people are super shallow.

I blame japan.

 

[Robotic]

You know who's really S-tier?

You just can't HELP urself THTB! I love it.

 

[Robotic]

I agree with Nori on this one. I do calmly.

I agree only because of the risk/reward: it will cost us nothing to stop referring to these characters as S tier even though we all really know what we mean. It might turn off some people stumbling across this site and trying to get a feel for character strength with their preconceived notion on what S tier means to them. Even then, it's not a huge deal.

If there really WAS S tier in this game, that'd be a big deal.

 

[M2Dave]

S tier in Tekken exists because none of the games are balanced. You literally do see the same chars win tournaments. Just because a select few (not the majority, not half, not a quarter, a few) have horrible matchups, doesn't mean you get to slap the "S" tier tag on chars. It gives off the wrong impression to gamers who like to cop out when they lose and blame the "broken" chars. S tier suggest broken, that's just how it is. You look at the majority of tier lists and S tier 99% of the time is broke tier. KL is not broke, nor is Raiden or Reptile or anybody else you can think of, in this particular game.

Vanilla Sagat did not win anything in the USA? You serious? I don't have the time to pull up every major a Sagat player has won in the US. Vanilla sagat IS a broken char, regardless if SRK is full of whiners. Just look at tourney results, it's right there. I've been entering tournaments since 01, and this is by far one of the most balanced games to date, there is no reason for all this S tier and god tier going on, cause it doesn't exist.

And when I say balanced, I mean generally, any char can win. Are some harder than others? Yes, of course. EVERY "balanced" game has bad matchups. And there is no perfectly balanced game where every char is 5-5. That game doesn't exist and that's clearly not what I'm saying.

- what about Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown? All of these fighting games must be broken. I keep seeing the letter S in every tier list. Seriously, man, S does not mean "broken" tier. You have to get over it.

- vanilla Sagat did not win major tournaments in America. Justin Wong's Rufus did... unless Daigo came over, of course.

- MK is not balanced. Stryker, Sheeva, Sindel, Quan Chi, Baraka, Noob, etc. could all use several buffs. The game is balanced if you play the S and A tier characters. Oh, I am sorry. I mean, the top and high mid tier characters.

 

[RWDY Nori]

So your ONLY defense is that VF uses it and it's ok? That's your major defense? It's not for me "get over". I've been entering fighting game tournaments since 2001. I know for a fact players coming to a game and seeing S tier, they know that list is broken. It's just hot it is. Maybe not in m2dave's world, but to everybody else, S tier is widely considered broken/overpowered tier. I mentioned several games that have S tier and you dismissed it.......just because you felt like it. And VF is the one you count. No, that's not how it works, sorry.

I'm not going to argue over SF, cause like I said, I entered tournaments often for it. There are many Sagats that won. JW did not show up to every single SF4 tournament ever created. 50+ man tournaments is a good size and LOTS of Sagat players won or placed extremely high. If you say otherwise, you clearly never entered a tournament or kept up w/the scene like you claim.

Sindel has favorable matchups. So does Noob. Quan Chi is not low tier. Stryker has good matchups too. Ask Vulcan Hades, he'll write you a novel about it. Not sure where you are going w/the chars needing buffs, I don't think I ever mentioned anybody not needing buffs.

 

[galindo]

Back on topic. Forget the letters. MK cannot be balanced when a character like Sindel loses 8:2 to Kung Lao or a character like Stryker who loses 8:2 to Kabal. Balanced game do not have such lopsided match ups.

those numbers are kinda dumb though...its really not far-fetched to have a good stryker player beat a good kung lao player.

 

[M2Dave]

So your ONLY defense is that VF uses it and it's ok? That's your major defense? It's not for me "get over". I've been entering fighting game tournaments since 2001. I know for a fact players coming to a game and seeing S tier, they know that list is broken. It's just hot it is. Maybe not in m2dave's world, but to everybody else, S tier is widely considered broken/overpowered tier. I mentioned several games that have S tier and you dismissed it.......just because you felt like it. And VF is the one you count. No, that's not how it works, sorry.

Despite what you may think, Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown, Tekken 6, Tekken 5: DR, and Super Street Fighter IV are fairly balanced games and all use the letter S. Balanced and unbalanced fighting games alike use the letter S to denote their top tier characters. Rathalos is probably correct when he says that the Japanese have influenced the way people create tier lists. Most high level players use the letter S. It is here to stay. Please get used to it.

Sindel has favorable matchups. So does Noob. Quan Chi is not low tier. Stryker has good matchups too. Ask Vulcan Hades, he'll write you a novel about it. Not sure where you are going w/the chars needing buffs, I don't think I ever mentioned anybody not needing buffs.

With very few exceptions, none of those characters neither beat nor do they go even against the top tier characters. At a high level, only the top tier characters matter. Noob may beat Sheeva and Baraka. No one cares because he loses to every top tier character not named Johnny Cage. If you know as much about fighting games as you claim, you know that the better and weaker characters become more apparent in time.

those numbers are kinda dumb though...its really not far-fetched to have a good stryker player beat a good kung lao player.

I will let Vulcan Hades deal with this one.

 

[RWDY Nori]

It's nothing for me to get used to nor "here to stay" . I guarantee more people will agree S tier means "unbalanced, over powered, broken". So just because you say it's here to stay, that's your opinion and it's just that, an opinion, not a fact. I take you it have not entered a tournament for T5 DR, T6 or SSF4. You would never say something like they are balanced when all you have to do is click on "tournament results" for any of the games and you will ALWAYS see the same 4-6 chars. That's not balance. That's actually the opposite of balance, hence the unbalanced statement

I'm aware low tier chars struggle. That's why they are low tier. You seem to base everything you say off of frame data when in reality, tiers move up and down based on tournament results. Tools and tournament results, that's mainly it.


It is a very simple request to not use "s" tier in matchup/tier threads. Everybody seems to understand this concept of what I'm saying

 

[rev0lver]

m2dave, I agree with much of what you're saying, but I don't see how you think the Summer Jam placements are more indicative of this game's balance than Evo. Summer Jam had like 40-some participants. Evo had over 500. Statistics are much more accurate with a larger sample, and I feel it was mainly the very dedicated and local players who braved Irene to go to Summer Jam.

However, SJ is still very notable with CDjr's win. And it's not just that he won the tourny, but he won it in winners bracket with the mid/mid-ish tier against the very high/S tier.

 

[RWDY Nori]

However, SJ is still very notable with CDjr's win. And it's not just that he won the tourny, but he won it in winners bracket with the mid/mid-ish tier against the very high/S tier/super broken/overpowered/unstoppable/please nerf these chars

Fixed the last part for you

 

[Past]

It is a very simple request to not use "s" tier in matchup/tier threads. Everybody seems to understand this concept of what I'm saying

Would you prefer A++ tier instead?

 

[RWDY Nori]

Would you prefer A++ tier instead?

Sure. Honestly, I feel A tier is top tier. It's very simple, this has been done for years. A tier was always top, B tier was always mid, C was always low and D you just stood far away from (Sheeva for example)

 

[rev0lver]

I will let Vulcan Hades deal with this one.

He is too optimistic for his own good...

 

[Past]

Sure. Honestly, I feel A tier is top tier. It's very simple, this has been done for years. A tier was always top, B tier was always mid, C was always low and D you just stood far away from (Sheeva for example)

Honestly it doesn't matter and sending everyone down a letter would mean sheeva, stryker, and sindel will be F tier, which to many people (the same who believe that S tier = God tier) means completely UNPLAYABLE.

 

[THTB]

From what I recall, SSFIV didn't even have S tiers in some of the later tier lists. Soooo...yeah.

And having 8:2 matchups don't really make for imbalance, when they're pretty sparingly there. ST had 8:2s in far more places than you can probably count, and the game is hailed as very balanced and the bottom tiers are widely considered competitive still.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Honestly it doesn't matter and sending everyone down a letter would mean sheeva, stryker, and sindel will be F tier, which to many people (the same who believe that S tier = God tier) means completely UNPLAYABLE.

That's my point I'm trying to get across (one of many). They are NOT unplayable. For certain, Stryker is far from unplayable. Didn't you just see a Sheeva (Michael Bolton I think) get top 8 w/her recently? So no, nobody needs to "move down" at all. Here, tier list like it should be:


Tier: A
Kung Lao, Raiden, Johnny Cage, Kabal, Cyrax, Reptile

Tier: B
Mileena, Sub-Zero, Kano, Kitana, Scorpion, Liu Kang, Nightwolf, Sektor, Skarlet, Kenshi, Rain, Smoke, Shang Tsung, Sonya, CSZ, Ermac

Tier: C
Noob, Jade, Jax, Quan Chi

Tier: D
Sindel, Stryker, Sheeva, Baraka


THTB: I remember in SSF4 there were the same 4-6 chars dominating. Yes, out of ALL the SF4s, it was the most balanced, but overall I just don't consider it a balanced game. That's my personal opinion. If you compare it to 3S, SF4 Vanilla and SF4 AE, sure, Super is balanced. I never saw the bottom tier crack top 8 like I do for MK9. Remember when everybody had Jax as garbage tier? That's now changed. Sheeva is now placing top 8. That will eventually change too.

 

[Playpal]

How about instead of letters we use words? Top, upper, mid, lower, bottom.

 

[RWDY Nori]

How about instead of letters we use words? Top, upper, mid, lower, bottom.

Yes, this is another simple solution. See? Everybody understands what I'm saying. There is hope for humanity yet

 

[Vulcan Hades]

He is too optimistic for his own good...

lol you're awfully cocky since you beat me online.

Next time your ass is mine.

 

[Sentry_Gun]

Yes, this is another simple solution. See? Everybody understands what I'm saying. There is hope for humanity yet

They could be called Cookie Tier, Banana Tier, Cupcake Tier and Muffin Tier for all I care. It doesn't matter what the tiers are called, you just have to see what other characters are in that tier.

 

[Playpal]

Yes, this is another simple solution. See? Everybody understands what I'm saying. There is hope for humanity yet

A solution to a problem that only you felt needed to be pointed out btw.

 

[Spletty]

We all know you get so emotional when you get trolled. It's so easy to get you all upset that's why you get trolled. Im surprised you have not made a Bradycast crying about how the mk community is treating you like how you did with the doa one. Anyways, ima let this thread focus on the real topic. Later.
Sheeva > sub zero. Bad match up. Lol

Lmao. Seriously dude? Haters gonna hate.

 

[RWDY Nori]

A solution to a problem that only you felt needed to be pointed out btw.

Quite a few people agree w/me, so clearly it's not just me brother. I'm just like anybody else, if I see an issue I'm trying to have it addressed. Simple as that.

 

[M2Dave]

m2dave, I agree with much of what you're saying, but I don't see how you think the Summer Jam placements are more indicative of this game's balance than Evo. Summer Jam had like 40-some participants. Evo had over 500. Statistics are much more accurate with a larger sample, and I feel it was mainly the very dedicated and local players who braved Irene to go to Summer Jam.

Quality over quantity. Did you watch the stream for Evo? Many of those 500 players did not know how to play the game. Summer Jam had 60 players, almost all of who are prominent and dedicated MK players in the community.

Besides, the reality is that the more time passes the better players get and the more the tier list becomes evident. That is what fighting game history tells us. Nori is comparing the tier list of Tekken, a fighting game that was released two years ago that is played on a global scale, to the tier list of MK, a fighting game released five months ago with a much, much smaller community, for his S tier arguments. It makes no sense because of the release dates alone.

And having 8:2 matchups don't really make for imbalance, when they're pretty sparingly there. ST had 8:2s in far more places than you can probably count, and the game is hailed as very balanced and the bottom tiers are widely considered competitive still.

You are missing important elements of ST. For example, while Dhalsim vs. Zangief is 8:2 in ST, if Zangief manages to corner Dhalsim, he can tick SPD Dhalsim to death because of his lack of a reversal attack. Dhalsim is difficult to corner, but the small opportunity is there for Zangief to pull off a "random" win. What can Sindel do vs. Kung Lao? He will annihilate her as soon as he approaches. Sindel cannot pull off a "random" win.

 

[Sao87]

Nori is right because a lot of the characters that are issues change once they are offline. From my perspective there are only three branches of tiers.

Characters that are competitive with the whole cast

Characters that are competitive with most of the cast but have bad match ups

Characters that have problems with a majority of the cast.

Nobody is consistently dominating with the characters that are considered S-Tier. My tier list would look something like this.

A Tier: Reptile, Kung Lao, Raiden

B Tier: EVERYONE

C Tier: Stryker, Jade, Baraka, Sindel, Sheeva (she might be in the middle)