MK9 Most Current Tier List Thread: Updated 9/1/2011

[Big Pampering]

Tier: S
Kung Lao, Raiden, Johnny Cage, Kabal, Kitana, Cyrax, Reptile

Tier: A
Mileena, Sub-Zero, Kano, Liu Kang, Nightwolf, Sektor, Skarlet

Tier: B

Scorpion, Ermac, Rain, smoke, shang tsung, sonya, kenshi, cyber sub

Tier: C

Noob, Jade, Jax

Tier: D

Quan Chi, Baraka

Tier E

Sindel, Stryker, Sheeva"

What about this? I added an E Tier to make it more accurate because the difference between some A tiers were to big imo.

 

[Ether]

This thread makes me want to harm pandas.

 

[RWDY Nori]

I just PMed Tom about a matchup chart instead. He'll work on it after patch, w/other top players. W/that method, it won't be "tier" based as much and people will finally stop whining and see the game for it is, overall balance

 

[Big Pampering]

Okay but now this is Raiden we're talking about, lol. Let me correct myself then, Smoke's teleport is the fastest next to Raiden. I just feel that a teleporting character's advantage against zoning should be just that: The fact that they can teleport should allow them to stuff careless projectiles- The issue with Smoke is that his teleport which is one of the faster ones in the game still can't correctly punish Kung Lao without being lucky is a little silly. Scorpion I can understand because he can make his teleport safe with EX...

The Low hat is 6%, it isnt a disaster for the character to have a safe 6% damage dealer. Just block low, just remember that low hats can be punished with some teleports and a cross in punch at the right range.

To Beat S tier characters you really have to understand them, I have no real problems with the so-called overpoewered characters at all. What I basically did was use each S tier characters for a few week for example: use KL 3 weeks after that use raiden for 3 weeks, then use Johnny cage for 3 weeks etc. This really is THE way to handle yourself in this game because knowing matchups is really important. For people who still have trouble against KL, go watch THTB's Reptile against Tom Brady's KL the way THTB handled a Kung lao really is THE way to play against a KL

BTW I cant belive no on is complaining about kabals saw(which can be used as wakeup) and the other fireball, the guy can actually use fireball and nomad dash you into a full combo, now that is rediculous

 

[M2Dave]

I just PMed Tom about a matchup chart instead. He'll work on it after patch, w/other top players. W/that method, it won't be "tier" based as much and people will finally stop whining and see the game for it is, overall balance

The game is not balanced at the moment. Ask Stryker, Sheeva, Sindel, Quan Chi, etc. players whether the game is balanced. Perhaps the balance will be better after the patch.

 

[RWDY Nori]

The reason most people don't complain about Kabal is that KL is much more brainless to use. People are tired of losing to their friends down the street so it's easier to cry nerf. Ironically, there are MAYBE only 2 high level KL players in the country right now and STILL he's getting patched again, that's the hilarious part

 

[Rushdown Frenzy]

The Low hat is 6%, it isnt a disaster for the character to have a safe 6% damage dealer. Just block low, just remember that low hats can be punished with some teleports and a cross in punch at the right range.

To Beat S tier characters you really have to understand them, I have no real problems with the so-called overpoewered characters at all. What I basically did was use each S tier characters for a few week for example: use KL 3 weeks after that use raiden for 3 weeks, then use Johnny cage for 3 weeks etc. This really is THE way to handle yourself in this game because knowing matchups is really important. For people who still have trouble against KL, go watch THTB's Reptile against Tom Brady's KL the way THTB handled a Kung lao really is THE way to play against a KL

BTW I cant belive no on is complaining about kabals saw(which can be used as wakeup) and the other fireball, the guy can actually use fireball and nomad dash you into a full combo, now that is rediculous

I follow you with that and I 'know' how to take on Kung and Raiden using Liu Kang, but I'm referring to Smoke in this particular instance. What you're stating isn't possible with Smoke except for the low-blocking the low hat part. But what do you do after? That's the question. Also, a missed block on a low hat yields not only 6% dmg, but also a stagger animation that leaves you stuck for an exorbitant amount of time, which gives Kung Lao all the time in the world to do whatever he wants because the recovery on his projectile shooting is so good. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. It's not a complaint or anything in regards to how powerful he is (We all know he's powerful), it's just something that I think would be a good idea to touch down upon in balancing Kung Lao out for other characters.

 

[RWDY Nori]

The game is not balanced at the moment. Ask Stryker, Sheeva, Sindel, Quan Chi, etc. players whether the game is balanced. Perhaps the balance will be better after the patch.

Compare this game to other games, and yes it is. If you have 10 chars in the top 8 at Evo, it's balanced. You don't have to see Stryker/Sheeva/Sindel place at Evo to say it's balanced. Low tier is low tier in any game, doesn't mean it's impossible for them to win like it is in T4 vs Jin or vs SF4 Sagat.

 

[salvificblood]

Oh really? Cause raiden is just a guessing game and I have no trouble against him, but sub zeros ice clone makes it impossible for characters without teleports to beat him.

Raiden is much more difficult to deal with than Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero has to work really hard and take more risks than people realise. He's up there but he's not "better" than Raiden. I would put Sub-Zero, Cage, Sonya and Nightwolf (although Nightwolf gets destroyed by Raiden, I think), all at the foot of S tier, but it really doesn't matter because I don't think there's much between the top characters in this game anyway.

 

[RWDY Nori]

When I see the same chars dominating tourneys over and over, I'll jump on board w/the whole S tier thing. Right now, people just put "S" tier because they forget what S tier really means. Silly kids

 

[M2Dave]

Compare this game to other games, and yes it is. If you have 10 chars in the top 8 at Evo, it's balanced. You don't have to see Stryker/Sheeva/Sindel place at Evo to say it's balanced. Low tier is low tier in any game, doesn't mean it's impossible for them to win like it is in T4 vs Jin or vs SF4 Sagat.

The first world tournament for any new fighting game is usually not indicative how balanced or unbalanced the fighting game is. I am not sure why you keep bringing up Evo to the discussion. Evo was a success for the Mortal Kombat community, but Summer Jam is the most recent major tournament. Its results coincide with the current opinions on the tier list.

VSM CD Jr (Rain, Jax)
AU Erik Warda (Kabal)
VSM Crazy Dominican (Kitana)
Tom Brady (Sub Zero, Kung Lao)
THTB (Reptile)
LB NYC Chris G (Reptile)
Michaelangelo (Kabal)
TS Sabin (Reptile)

The characters in bold were almost exclusively used in the top 8. As you can see, aside from Rain who is a high mid tier character, every other character is an established S tier character. The more time passes the better players get and the more the tier list becomes evident. That is what fighting game history tells us. The game is not as balanced as some people would like to believe. As far as vanilla Sagat vs. low tier characters go, Kung Lao, Kabal vs. Stryker, Sheeva, Sindel, etc. are no different whatsoever in terms of match up numbers.

 

[I$AAC]

The "Kung Lao is God Tier" train is never late.

 

[MKF30]

You're getting hung up on semantics. He's broken the roster up into five separate tiers. It doesn't really matter what they're called.

lol I can see how a newer player would get confused if they're coming on here though, all semantics and technicalities.

I agree for the most part with the current list, but I always go in my head:

God Tier-KL, Raiden etc

Top Tier-Sub, Cyrax, etc

Higher Mid Tier-Ermac, Noob etc

Lower Mid Tier-Quan, Baraka etc

Low Tier-Stryker, Sheeva etc

It's just easier that way for me personally, all the same.

P.S. I noticed Freddy isn't on here, I'm guessing he will be once the newest patch is out?

 

[RWDY Nori]

As far as vanilla Sagat vs. low tier characters go, Kung Lao, Kabal vs. Stryker, Sheeva, Sindel, etc. are no different whatsoever in terms of match up numbers.

If you are implying SF4's Sagat is just as good as some S tier chars you claim, you either 1) Are new to FGs 2) Did not play SF4 in a tournament. Ever or 3) Don't remember past games where S tier was considered broken

That's what S tier is. Broken tier, over powered. No matter which way you want to slice it, there is zero evidence to support this magical S tier you keep bringing up. If Reptile/Kabal are featured more in tournaments at high level, how can KL/Raiden be S tier? S tier chars dominate all tournaments largely. That's a fact you can't argue w/. 7 different chars in the top 8 at Summerjam. Evo had 10 in top 8. Show me another game w/that many chars in the top 8 at any major. Reptile is the char that is considered the best in tournament play right now, and he's not considered above KL/Raiden, so there is clearly something wrong here w/the bandwagon term "S" tier, when it doesn't apply to this game, at all

I'll gladly give you more examples for S tier if you want and then you can compare those games to this and laugh when you see my point

 

[THTB]

This game has relatively the same balance as vanilla SFIV, which is more than competitive.

And Sagat is probably the tamest 'broken' character in history anyway. Given SFIV series' current technology, if you were to go back and look at him, he likely would not be that powerful anyway.

But yeah, your point is very true about Kung Lao and Raiden not being as represented as Kabal and Reptile. There was no Raiden in top 16, and only 1 Kung Lao in top 8 (3 in top 16)...while there were 3 Reptiles and 2 Kabals in top 8 alone.

I'm starting to realize that there are way too many good characters in this game, that's for sure. Like...legitimately good characters based on their own tools. This game, in that regards, is comparable to older games.

 

[YougotCaged1]

@PerfectMindGame, I don't agree that Smoke and scorpion should be reduced a tier. I honestly think Smoke can be one of the most unpredictable characters in the game if used by a smart player. Maybe you should stop wake up teleporting if your problem is what I think it is. Scorpion is extremely unpredictable in the hands of a good player too. The tier lists are meant to show the characters at their highest level possible and how all their tools are effective.

 

[RWDY Nori]

You ask anybody that played SF4 at tournaments often, they will always say "vanilla sagat was broke". He had every single thing to win and DID always win the majority of tournaments. There isn't a single char winning the majority of tournaments in this game, so how can there POSSIBLY be S tier?

Real S tier chars:

Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition: M. Bison
Tekken 4: Jin
Tekken 5: Steve/Nina
MvC2: Storm/Magneto/Sentinel/Cable
3S: Chun/Yun/Ken


Those games don't have balance in them. You see the same 2-3 chars winning 90% of tournaments. When this starts happening in MK9, I'll gladly jump on the S tier bandwagon. Until then, there is no S tier and I don't know what else I need to post to prove it

 

[THTB]

You know who's really S-tier?

 

[Rushdown Frenzy]

Real S tier chars:

Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition: Sagat
Tekken 4: Jin
Tekken 5: Steve/Nina
MvC2: Storm/Magneto/Sentinel/Cable
3S: Chun/Yun/Ken

Corrected for you. Sagat was far more broken than even the boss characters, and that's something to consider. I'm on the same level of thinking when there is no real "God" tier in this game, but rather there are certain characters that could use a slight rebalancing. (Namely Kung Lao, Stryker, Sheeva, Baraka, etc)

 

[Vulcan Hades]

*sigh*

You know it's just a letter Nori...

 

[Rushdown Frenzy]

Ahh, crap. I lied by the way when I said there were no god-tier characters in MK...

I think that's why Tom Brady didn't list him in the official tier-list. ;P

 

[RWDY Nori]

Corrected for you. Sagat was far more broken than even the boss characters, and that's something to consider. I'm on the same level of thinking when there is no real "God" tier in this game, but rather there are certain characters that could use a slight rebalancing. (Namely Kung Lao, Stryker, Sheeva, Baraka, etc)

1) Sagat was a boss char (vega, bison, sagat, balrog)

2) M. Bison is considered one of the top 5 most broken chars of all time.

I'll gladly debate this w/you in a PM cause I want to stay on topic as much as possible


Vulcan Hades: If people come on to this site, all first impressions are important. There is no point in us looking like tools in describing chars incorrectly when in fact, they aren't in S tier. If we want the community to grow, we can't give off the impression to anybody that certain chars are near unbeatable, because if they were that strong, you would see them constantly winning tournaments all the time. Yet, the evidence suggets otherwise, so why insist on saying S tier? When the community as a whole realizes it, it will be stronger as a whole and have a better understanding of the game

 

[M2Dave]

You ask anybody that played SF4 at tournaments often, they will always say "vanilla sagat was broke". He had every single thing to win and DID always win the majority of tournaments. There isn't a single char winning the majority of tournaments in this game, so how can there POSSIBLY be S tier?

Real S tier chars:

Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition: M. Bison
Tekken 4: Jin
Tekken 5: Steve/Nina
MvC2: Storm/Magneto/Sentinel/Cable
3S: Chun/Yun/Ken

Those games don't have balance in them. You see the same 2-3 chars winning 90% of tournaments. When this starts happening in MK9, I'll gladly jump on the S tier bandwagon. Until then, there is no S tier and I don't know what else I need to post to prove it

Again, the numbers are arbitrary. They do not represent such concepts as "god tier" or "trash tier". The Tekken and Virtua Fighter communities use the letter S too even though Tekken and Virtua Fighter games have been balanced recently. S tier does not mean "broken tier".

The games you have listed have been played for a long period of time by much larger communities. Those games have no similarity or relevance to MK whatsoever.

As far as vanilla Sagat goes, you are going by what the casual gamers post on SRK. I am going by what actually happened because I have been following the fighting game community for a very long time. Vanilla Sagat did not win anything in the United States. Justin Wong's Rufus did. Vanilla Sagat was much more prevalent in Japan (mostly because of Mago), but Daigo was considered the best player and he used Ryu. The SF community has a lot of whiners. It is twice as bad as the MK community. I believe Ono-san, the producer of the IV series, even gets death threats on twitter because of balance issues.

Back on topic. Forget the letters. MK cannot be balanced when a character like Sindel loses 8:2 to Kung Lao or a character like Stryker who loses 8:2 to Kabal. Balanced game do not have such lopsided match ups.

 

[Rushdown Frenzy]

By your logic, you're saying the list should look more like this?

Tier: S
Freddy Krueger

Tier: A
Kung Lao, Raiden, Johnny Cage, Kabal, Kitana, Cyrax, Reptile

Tier: B
Mileena, Sub-Zero, Kano, Scorpion, Liu Kang, Nightwolf, Sektor, Skarlet, Kenshi, Rain, Smoke, Shang Tsung, Sonya

Tier: C
Cyber Sub-Zero, Ermac, Noob, Jade, Jax

Tier: D
Quan Chi, Baraka

Tier: F
Sindel, Stryker, Sheeva

F is such an ugly letter to look at..

 

[RWDY Nori]

Again, the numbers are arbitrary. They do not represent such concepts as "god tier" or "trash tier". The Tekken and Virtua Fighter communities use the letter S too even though Tekken and Virtua Fighter games have been balanced recently. S tier does not mean "broken tier".

The games you have listed have been played for a long period of time by much larger communities. Those games have no similarity or relevance to MK whatsoever.

As far as vanilla Sagat goes, you are going by what the casual gamers post on SRK. I am going by what actually happened because I have been following the fighting game community for a very long time. Vanilla Sagat did not win anything in the United States. Justin Wong's Rufus did. Vanilla Sagat was much more prevalent in Japan (mostly because of Mago), but Daigo was considered the best player and he used Ryu. The SF community has a lot of whiners. It is twice as bad as the MK community. I believe Ono-san, the producer of the IV series, even gets death threats on twitter because of balance issues.

Back on topic. Forget the letters. MK cannot be balanced when a character like Sindel loses 8:2 to Kung Lao or a character like Stryker who loses 8:2 to Kabal. Balanced game do not have such lopsided match ups.

S tier in Tekken exists because none of the games are balanced. You literally do see the same chars win tournaments. Just because a select few (not the majority, not half, not a quarter, a few) have horrible matchups, doesn't mean you get to slap the "S" tier tag on chars. It gives off the wrong impression to gamers who like to cop out when they lose and blame the "broken" chars. S tier suggest broken, that's just how it is. You look at the majority of tier lists and S tier 99% of the time is broke tier. KL is not broke, nor is Raiden or Reptile or anybody else you can think of, in this particular game.

Vanilla Sagat did not win anything in the USA? You serious? I don't have the time to pull up every major a Sagat player has won in the US. Vanilla sagat IS a broken char, regardless if SRK is full of whiners. Just look at tourney results, it's right there. I've been entering tournaments since 01, and this is by far one of the most balanced games to date, there is no reason for all this S tier and god tier going on, cause it doesn't exist.

And when I say balanced, I mean generally, any char can win. Are some harder than others? Yes, of course. EVERY "balanced" game has bad matchups. And there is no perfectly balanced game where every char is 5-5. That game doesn't exist and that's clearly not what I'm saying.