Matchup Numbers and Tier Lists - The Scourge of TYM

[B W1zZ]

It seems lately the majority of this site has turned into a pissing contest over matchup numbers. Supposed experts and/or character specialists are constantly bombarding this site with 4-6, 3-7, and even 2-8's...along with tier lists that are at least 50% inaccurate in most cases.

This is mostly because of the following:

-An assumption deriving from playing against the best known, or accessible player for a certain character.

-Assuming both players are playing at the absolute and I quote "highest possible level" ~@TRASH OF TYM

-Assumption from playing the matchup online.

-Assumption from playing against one or two play styles.

- Not realizing that there happens to be a skill gap between themselves and the other player. This could be due to a number of reasons:

- -Overall lack of knowledge of certain aspects of the game
- -Lopsided matchup knowledge (one player having a more thorough knowledge over one or both characters in question)
- -Lopsided fundamentals (the downplayer lacking in execution, footsies, spacing, making reads, playing at a high level in general).
-- Ignorance of the above

Don't get me wrong...discussing what advantages/disadvantages characters have in certain matchups and on certain stages is productive; however proclaiming a certain matchup number and believing it to be absolute is counter-productive and narrow minded in my opinion. An assumed 3-7 or "difficult" matchup could easily be turned into an even one with a little innovation and thinking outside of the box.

I gave up on arguing matchup numbers a long time ago, however I'm curious what methodology the TYM community in general uses to come up with matchup numbers, so feel free to vote, and discuss.

 

[Fromundaman]

I tend to play the matchups offline as much as possible against people of varying skill levels then try to look at what option each character has in each situation.
Basically I try to play offline but separate "playing the matchup" and "playing the opponent" to the best of my ability.

 

[Qwark28]

play against the best of the best

see what they do

see what i should be doing

find solution

repeat

 

[Cossner]

This is so meta.

 

[DarkPage]

I never even refer to it as match up numbers, I just say this could be a bad match up, or im not really sure how to fight this character, I just read other peoples stuff and say stuff like "oh well supposedly thats a bad MU"
So yeah idk why match up numbers even exist, and why is it out of 10? lol

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Oh look... another "I hate matchup threads" thread.

I think I may need to start a "I hate threads that bitch about matchup threads" thread just to be ironic.

 

[juicepouch]

I picked "other", as in I body people worse than me then I feel like all my matchups are 10 0 and then when I lose I get super salty and quit playing for weeks at a time and assume everyone better than me is a Jedi or a member of MENSA

 

[Chaosphere]

I assume every match is 0-10 for Lobo because that's what everyone else says. So I just assume I'm amazing at this game.

 

[ApocaLips]

Is this a troll thread?

There's no option for 'theory, corroborated by personal experience and analysis of high level play videos'

 

[Bildslash]

Lol Art Killer B voted for every option.

Anyway I agree that some players can be too close minded when discussing MUs. And yes, like GGA 16 Bit said on KTP, there's more discussion about coming up with the "actual numbers" than discussion about MUs specifics.

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

Theory fighting + discrediting players who place top 8 consistently by stating the their characters are broken + playing online and not adapting to gimmick automatically puts my character losing in a 7-3

 

[1man3letters]

know "other" is a option but really though the tools vs tools way of thinking would be a main option.

imo a mu score is based on character A tools vs character B tools.
how much of character A tools limit character Bs and vice versa.

but with tym mu discussion you to have to add in the elements of egos and such so thats were it gets messed up lol

 

[Mikemetroid]

I like to play against those who are "above average" with such character at tournaments and casuals.

 

[ryublaze]

I don't post any MU charts but when I want to talk about a MU I make sure I know my character and the other character, and the skill level of the people using these characters. I make sure my opponent knows the MU as well as I do and that we play multiple long sets with each other. Then after playing with that person and other skilled players that use the same character, I post my opinion on the MU. Since I play online, I take that into consideration as well and make sure that our connection is good. Also I look at the perspective of the other character and their MU chart and see if they have the same MU number. Sometimes I also like to look at tourney players' MU charts and compare.

 

[ryublaze]

I also know that I don't play my characters at the highest level, but I think I'm a good representative to play online (unless it's Injustice ).

 

[ryublaze]

I don't like these niggas who post MU numbers and think they know everything about the MU and that they're the best at that character, unless they're Reo.

 

[Deyrax]

Matchup talk is for frauds.

 

[Zoidberg747]

If I have offline experience I go with that, otherwise mostly theory.

My personal #s are almost never sat in stone though, although my Raven #s havent changed in a while.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

How about 'realizing we don't know shit about the game because it hasn't even been a year yet'?