General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[Crayraven]

@Crayraven
To be honest I never use scourge to heal. I have enough difficulty gaining metre as it is so I am not going to be spending a bar on a pretty mediocre heal.
I sometimes use it to gain metre but that's pretty rare as well. Let's be real here, sun choke damage at level 1 and 2 is crap. I usually do my best to get it to level 3 ASAP and keep it there.

Oh I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that there are other mechanics to sun choke that regular throw doesn't have. Even if those mechanics aren't up to par..practically.

 

[RYX]

if it came down to replacing Blood/Obsidian Totem, which would you replace?

and would you rather have armor or armor piercing?

 

[Crayraven]

if it came down to replacing Blood/Obsidian Totem, which would you replace?

and would you rather have armor or armor piercing?

I think obsidian totem is fine as it is. I believe its underrated. Its hard to give a true opinion of blood totem in its current state, but for now I'd rather see it fixed first then see how it performs in game.

 

[Khaoz77]

I might sound COMPLETELY retarded but...

I just found out that 2, b2 is a thing...

I did this string completely by accident...

Is this a patch thing or was it always there so I can confirm my fraudulence?

 

[RYX]

I might sound COMPLETELY retarded but...

I just found out that 2, b2 is a thing...

I did this string completely by accident...

Is this a patch thing or was it always there so I can confirm my fraudulence?

it's always been here but why would you use it lol

 

[KeyserSoze]

I might sound COMPLETELY retarded but...

I just found out that 2, b2 is a thing...

I did this string completely by accident...

Is this a patch thing or was it always there so I can confirm my fraudulence?

Been there since day 1, but no one uses it. It's not bad. I just forget about it.

 

[Khaoz77]

thanks guys ._.

*proceeds to wallow in fraudulence*

 

[mkl]

Anyone see any frame changes? The patch isn't out on PC so I can't check. I feel like 114, f4, d1 could all possibly be changed if they're changing so many frames on moves in this patch.

 

[RYX]

Anyone see any frame changes? The patch isn't out on PC so I can't check. I feel like 114, f4, d1 could all possibly be changed if they're changing so many frames on moves in this patch.

let's steal goro's overhead f4

 

[RYX]

am I in the minority thinking Kotal's completely fine as he is outside of a few universal issues and a bugged totem?

some people just want obscene buffs, this can't be the majority opinion lol

EDIT: NRS changed his frame data, 1, 2, and 4 are +2 on block, as is 114. 212 is -1 on block, b32 is -3

not really what i was hoping to see tbh

 

[Second Saint]

am I in the minority thinking Kotal's completely fine as he is outside of a few universal issues and a bugged totem?

some people just want obscene buffs, this can't be the majority opinion lol

EDIT: NRS changed his frame data, 1, 2, and 4 are +2 on block, as is 114. 212 is -1 on block, b32 is -3

not really what i was hoping to see tbh

Wait 114 is +2 on it's own now? How does that effect 114~air grab? I'm on PC so I'll likely get the balance patch sometime in the next two months, but only after High Voltage stops doing lines of coke off of a prostitute's stomach long enough to port some lines of code. Which I'm sure they'll screw up and make the game unplayable and destroy everybody's DLC or something in the process.

 

[regulas]

Anyone have t

am I in the minority thinking Kotal's completely fine as he is outside of a few universal issues and a bugged totem?

some people just want obscene buffs, this can't be the majority opinion lol

EDIT: NRS changed his frame data, 1, 2, and 4 are +2 on block, as is 114. 212 is -1 on block, b32 is -3

not really what i was hoping to see tbh

Sounds more like frame data fixes then anything,

I think that War God is fine but Sun and Blood do need something even if it's minor, yes you can find ways of sort of making it work but you are still basically operating with a handicap.

It could be a footsie string being safe on block, or it could be a slight speed boost to a special, or it could be a sun grab dmg boost.

Any 1 thing even if it were a small thing would in my opinion make a big big difference. Right now at the end of the day after all the tech I've found for Blood God you still suffer from the initial problem of somehow landing it

 

[RYX]

Wait 114 is +2 on it's own now? How does that effect 114~air grab? I'm on PC so I'll likely get the balance patch sometime in the next two months, but only after High Voltage stops doing lines of coke off of a prostitute's stomach long enough to port some lines of code. Which I'm sure they'll screw up and make the game unplayable and destroy everybody's DLC or something in the process.

It doesn't do anything for cancel advantage iirc, but 114 is +1 on block now.

Anyone have t


Sounds more like frame data fixes then anything,

I think that War God is fine but Sun and Blood do need something even if it's minor, yes you can find ways of sort of making it work but you are still basically operating with a handicap.

It could be a footsie string being safe on block, or it could be a slight speed boost to a special, or it could be a sun grab dmg boost.

Any 1 thing even if it were a small thing would in my opinion make a big big difference. Right now at the end of the day after all the tech I've found for Blood God you still suffer from the initial problem of somehow landing it

That's really what I think needs to change. Kotal Kahn has great reward for landing something but the risk seems a little skewed when you look at some of his strings.

I have a -small- list that mostly involves fixing 114~air grab whiffing on Torr, f.34~air grab connecting mid screen, and something like b14 being safe(or at least safer).

I'd like to see his Sun God variation properly revolve around his level management, with other abilities possibly granting him levels if EX'd (maybe a successful EX parry?) or having a few specials becoming faster/more powerful if he keeps the levels. Alternately, just giving him all 3 levels if he EX's the Sun Choke (which is something should probably happen)

I really don't know what to do about Blood God as far as totems go but any universal changes will probably benefit this variation the most. His totems are fine besides the bug. Some sort of bonus to Blood Offering would be cool; it fits the Blood God theme, after all.

He's still way more functional than people give him credit for and I think Sun God is slept on really hard.

 

[felirx]

Wait 114 is +2 on it's own now? How does that effect 114~air grab?

You are still plus something. Did the jump test and blocking enemy jumps later than Kotal.

 

[mkl]

I figured 114 was going to be -1 since there's so many 0 on block moves becoming -1. Good thing air grab makes it + anyway. The +2 on high pokes is fucking nothing which is sad.

 

[ProjectD FC]

So I'm just now watching Pig of the Hut's stream and he stated that Kotal Kahn is bottom 5.

I'm asking because I am playing Takeda and I needed a secondary and I enjoyed War God Kotal Kahn. Now Takeda, according to many, is also bottom 5 and I have a really bad track record of picking bottom tiers in NRS games.

Anyone care to elaborate on why he would say Kotal is bottom 5?

 

[Second Saint]

So I'm just now watching Pig of the Hut's stream and he stated that Kotal Kahn is bottom 5.

I'm asking because I am playing Takeda and I needed a secondary and I enjoyed War God Kotal Kahn. Now Takeda, according to many, is also bottom 5 and I have a really bad track record of picking bottom tiers in NRS games.

Anyone care to elaborate on why he would say Kotal is bottom 5?

This is one of the problem with variations. Now when someone talks about a character, there is a degree of ambiguity in their statement if they aren't specific. If he meant Sun/Blood God, I might agree with him. But War God? I don't know about that. If you want a pro's opinion to cancel out pigs, I've heard CD JR say War God might be top 10. Pnut, who made top 8 at Texas Showdown with Kotal, thinks war god is mid tier as I recall.

Sun and blood god aren't very good because they lack safety on the better footsie strings, they have no mixups, poor wakeup options, the throw damage is low for sun god, one of the totems for blood god doesn't work, slow combo starting normals, and Kotal is also one of the easiest characters in the game to zone.

War god brings to the table some of what those variations lack: Safety, Wakeups, and Mixups. Even then, his safe special can be armored through. War God at least is tournament viable. Maybe not top tier, but certainly decent. The others could use some help, though.

 

[ProjectD FC]

Alright thank you for your input. I agree because I don't see war god being bad in terms of the other two variations. Anyone I need to be looking for in terms of people that play Kotal (aside from Pnut that you listed)?

 

[Second Saint]

Alright thank you for your input. I agree because I don't see war god being bad in terms of the other two variations. Anyone I need to be looking for in terms of people that play Kotal (aside from Pnut that you listed)?

Mr. Aquaman is also doing very well with Kotal, top 8 at Northwest Majors, and Rico Suave mains the character, but I don't think he's been to any tournaments yet.

 

[Tomo009]

Yeah, War God Kotal does not feel CLOSE to bottom 5.

Playing more offline sets is reinforcing that to me. I think Kotal has end game potential. I don't mean he is top tier or even upper high tier, I think he is at a healthy place where he probably wont be nerfed much if at all.

I'm doing significantly better offline against players that I would never have really thought I would have a chance against. There are tough matchups, but so far Sub is the only one I'm still really stumped in. I'm getting used to Kano's knives now, they have low chip and pushback, what I'm really scared about is his b2, his f4 and EX knives.

 

[RYX]

War God is probably the best right now yeah, but I still wouldn't count the other variations out. Blood God can end the round off a single mistake and Sun God has mix-ups on strike/throw. I think people are just deterred by its initially low damage on Sun Choke skewing the risk/reward at first (7% for a grab is really bad, I won't lie, especially when it has 43 frames of recovery if it whiffs.)

 

[Shufflez]

I think it's safe to say war god Kotal is viable, I've played some shit tier characters before in injustice\mk9 and I know what it feels like to lose because you don't have any options I can't say I've felt that way yet about a loss in war god. We're in a hole now tho where everyone will just assume sun god isn't viable instead of trying to flesh it out and instead just hop on the war god waggon. Characters like lao and reptile can punish the war god strings that become safe thanks to pushback because of their fast advancing specials I think in match ups like that sun god might have a place.

Haven't even looked at blood god that much, the variation doesn't seem to bring anything over the other 2 that isn't a gimmick but yeah I think some adjustments to sun choke damage, some minor changes to some of his universal strings and fixing up some of the totem issues I've heard about would make him a more balanced character, that said there are worse characters than kotal in this game.

 

[Benzo]

am I in the minority thinking Kotal's completely fine as he is outside of a few universal issues and a bugged totem?

some people just want obscene buffs, this can't be the majority opinion lol

EDIT: NRS changed his frame data, 1, 2, and 4 are +2 on block, as is 114. 212 is -1 on block, b32 is -3

not really what i was hoping to see tbh

No you're not. Older gamers such as myself are used to this.
Actually it is only my opinion but this is the only thing he needs. To be able to direct the sun choke and buff the mace. As in let the mace absorb projectiles and continue to get the slight damage buff just like he gets when he absorbs an physical attack. That alone would help Blood. Just making the Mace viable will help him overall. Once again this is only my opinion. Im maining him no matter what.

 

[RYX]

I find it amazing how front-loaded his throw is right now. +37 when everyone else is barely above +10 and he has enough time to check every non-armored wakeup with a meaty d.1 or f.2. Makes me feel bad that they tried to push Sun Choke as the damage option at the cost of momentum, but you need to charge it up three times before it's only on par with other throws. At the least Choke should actually be the damage option, definitely needs some numbers tweaks and maybe faster recovery considering his kit.

His parry is massively underrated. It's a read-heavy scenario but it's deceptively powerful (in theory) against people like Mileena with one-hit wakeups and only one decent armored one, which you can bait and parry on reaction. You can check her on roll, teleport, EX teleport, and vs her EX roll, you can feign a run into backdash to see if she EX rolls and if she does you can parry her as she collides into you.

 

[Crayraven]

I find it amazing how front-loaded his throw is right now. +37 when everyone else is barely above +10 and he has enough time to check every non-armored wakeup with a meaty d.1 or f.2. Makes me feel bad that they tried to push Sun Choke as the damage option at the cost of momentum, but you need to charge it up three times before it's only on par with other throws. At the least Choke should actually be the damage option, definitely needs some numbers tweaks and maybe faster recovery considering his kit.

His parry is massively underrated. It's a read-heavy scenario but it's deceptively powerful (in theory) against people like Mileena with one-hit wakeups and only one decent armored one, which you can bait and parry on reaction. You can check her on roll, teleport, EX teleport, and vs her EX roll, you can feign a run into backdash to see if she EX rolls and if she does you can parry her as she collides into you.

Yeah that's right, in theory. I agree with what you are saying. But lets talk practically. Can you practically apply any of that consistently in a match?