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General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn changes for the Future

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
For the last few weeks, I had decided to abandon Kung Lao and represent the Emperor of Outworld. I stuck with War God, learning his combos, set-ups and general strategies. He's a really fun character who focuses on footsies, something that I enjoy thoroughly.

Despite this, there were a few things about him that just seemed off. Granted, Kotal is in no way bottom tier, and this goes double for War God. However, the changes I list below are some things that I think would enhance his gameplay as a whole, while simultaneously not over buffing him to the point of stupidity.

Please let me know what you think! I'm sure most of these ideas have been floated around before, but I haven't seen anything comprehensive as of now. As I stated, I played only War God, so my suggestions for the other 2 variations may not be the best.

Universal:

Increase the hitbox of the second hit of 114

- As most people know, 114 Air Grab is one of Kotal's best pressure tools, allowing him to be plus, gain bar, and set up significant chip if the opponent has no bar. However, all too often the second hit of the string will whiff on opponents, even though it is listed as a mid and the first hit of the string is blocked. A slight increase on the hitbox is all that is needed.

Increase the hit advantage on Air Grab
- Frankly, the hit advantage on the Air Grab special is bad. Kotal has almost no time to move in and start pressure, and in many cases he simply has to allow the opponent to wake up or risk being punished. Increasing the hit advantage somewhere between 8 to 10 frames would be ideal.

Sun God:

Allow Kotal to choose which direction he throws his opponent at all levels of Sun Choke
- A minor pet peeve of mine, but I have never liked command grabs that switch sides. When you finally have cornered your opponent and get a grab on them, you toss them out of the corner and have given them better positioning DESPITE getting the hit. Allowing the player to choose which side to throw their opponent is a quick fix for this.

Reduce the recovery of Sun Ray/EX Sun Ray to 15-20 frames
- This variation has the biggest problem with zoning of the 3, as it lacks the large sword normals of War God and the defensive totem of Blood God. To compensate for this, Sun God should be allowed to throw out this special that will heal him or damage the zoning opponent without having to wait an eternity to recover. The frame data of Sun Ray/EX Sun Ray in the other variations would remain unchanged.

Blood God:

Decrease recovery of Blood Offering to 15-20 frames
- This was a tricky one, as making this special recover too fast would make Blood God's damage output even crazier than it already is. However, I think it is fair to give him some help in the damage department since this variation has no true mixups and is likely considered the weakest of the three. The frame data of Blood Offering in the other variations would remain unchanged.

Add a new move similar to Blood Offering that gives Kotal one hit of armor
- Another tricky one, as I don't want Blood God to be the new Bane. However, I still think it would be fair to allow Kotal to sacrifice life in exchange for one hit of armor that would expire after a period of time. Having this new move recover in 15-20 frames may be a bit much, but the overall concept of the idea is what I'm trying to promote.

War God:

Increase hit advantage of Low Sword
- This follows the same reasoning behind the suggested buff of the Air Grab, with Kotal being at too much of a disadvantage on hit to get anything going. Increasing it to around the same hit advantage of Overhead Sword, which sits at 10 frames, would be ideal, and would allow the Kotal to take advantage of getting the hit without being too strong.

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DelSchokoladenSaft

Can of Corn Main
For the most part, Kotal's fine. The xxb string and sun ray sound reasonable, though.
I use the air takedown more as a 'get off me' tool then a pressure tool. Any more advantage would be op.
Both sg and bg get the mace parry. Aside from the multiple hitting and pseudo projectiles, Kotal can parry them.
Sun choke is more of a gripe for you. Or it could be my opinion. Idk what is or isn't.
Your analyses on the variations otherwise sound op. I don't think a character who could get a 48% one bar midscreen combo needs the ability sacrifice faster or do things otherwise.

It was a good try, though.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
I play Sun God and I think you're asking for too much.

Just fix the dumb 114 whiffing problem and I'm good to go.
I find the Air Grab hit advantage to be the worst problem. He is so negative that he has to respect certain characters advancing strings on their wakeup. Doesn't make any sense.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
I find the Air Grab hit advantage to be the worst problem. He is so negative that he has to respect certain characters advancing strings on their wakeup. Doesn't make any sense.
As Sun God I never use regular air grab. If I want to anti-air I either use EX Air Grab or D2 if I don't have meter, and I end my combos with sun choke.

But air grab is -2 on hit, so I guess your d1 should be able to hit everything they don't do a proper wakeup. Waking up with strings takes a few frames (standing up frames) so you should be at +2 or something like that.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
I find the Air Grab hit advantage to be the worst problem. He is so negative that he has to respect certain characters advancing strings on their wakeup. Doesn't make any sense.
It's like Batman's slide from Injustice. You were at more of a disadvantage ON HIT than your opponent. -_- It's stupid.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
As Sun God I never use regular air grab. If I want to anti-air I either use EX Air Grab or D2 if I don't have meter, and I end my combos with sun choke.

But air grab is -2 on hit, so I guess your d1 should be able to hit everything they don't do a proper wakeup. Waking up with strings takes a few frames (standing up frames) so you should be at +2 or something like that.
I usually use his b1 to antiair, i saw mr aquaman use it and its really effective
 

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
i dont wanna burst anyone's bubble. But seriously, TYM is becoming rediculous with all these buffs and fixes threads lately.

Kotal is so fine and sure he has weaknesses and strengths but thats the fun side of it.

If there is any variation that needs this much of energy to create a serious and thorough fixes thread its the poor Unbreakable.

I appreciate your effort but i have to disagree respectfully. Thnx for the thread !
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
Lao could use a light nerf, no argument there.

As for the Air Grab, I want to improve it so that Kotal can use it as a combo-ender and not be in a disadvantageous situation. This is especially important when doing the Air Grab ender would put the opponent in the corner. Why does Kotal have to block Quan's B2, Jax's F2, Cassie's B1 and Lao's F2 if he decides to follow up with his own long range normals?
 

TKB

Noob
Lao could use a light nerf, no argument there.

As for the Air Grab, I want to improve it so that Kotal can use it as a combo-ender and not be in a disadvantageous situation. This is especially important when doing the Air Grab ender would put the opponent in the corner. Why does Kotal have to block Quan's B2, Jax's F2, Cassie's B1 and Lao's F2 if he decides to follow up with his own long range normals?
I have never had an issue with someone standing up and throwing out a normal after using air grab as a combo ender. If I think they're going to wake up I just block, otherwise I usually use b1 to continue pressuring them. Have any of you kotal players/mains had what he's describing happen to you...?

Edit: I mean having someone stand up and do a normal that beats out your b1 or d1
 
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AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Thanks for the tag! I love playing Sun God.

I agree with him being able to choose the side he throws someone but I'd be happy even if that only happened at Level 3. Jax and Kano have that option and its only fair that Sungod has that as well.

Sun Ray being faster might be too much. I'd love it but I find ways to use it now that are awesome. Having them in chip territory and placing sun ray on me prevents them from coming close and completely changes how they play the game.

I don't really play the other two variations any more so no comment.