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Kitana vs Wakeup

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Updated July 17th, 2011 @ 10:37PM

* - Delayed attack on someone waking up means that you time your attack to connect after the initial 8 frames of invincibility so it will make contact with them.

NOTE: In the event that specific wakeup moves are discussed. Only the invincible wakeup moves will be covered. Any other wakeup attack can be hit out of before the move even comes out (as can most invincible wakeups if your attack is delayed).

The characters covered so far are:
Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Kitana, Sindel, and Ermac.


SCORPION:
You want to watch for two things. EN Spear, EN Teleport. A good Scorpion will not do any sort of wakeup attack unless you are putting on the pressure.

EN Spear will catch you for free out of ANY Fan throw attempt. On wakeup, it will beat any of your attacks provided you are not in a ducking position. Right next to Scorpion on wakeup, you should do either a delayed* d1, d3, or d4 into Cutter. If he does EN Spear, the attack will be absorbed by the armor from the move then the Cutter will come out and give you the full damage. If you land this in the corner, you can continue the combo after the Cutter.

EN Teleport comes out very slow. If you are right next to Scorpion and he tries to do this, you will hit him out of it. Doing d1, d3, or d4 into Cutter will give you a combo and knock him across the screen. If you are not close to him and he does this, punish with either a simply uppercut, or you can catch him with a d1~Fan Lift for a combo of your choice.

SUB-ZERO:
After a knockdown, Sub is either going to do an Ice Clone or a Slide. Kitana has an option that will beat both options. You should be anywhere from jump to sweep distance away. Time an Instant Air Fan (iAF) the moment he starts his wakeup attack. If he does an Ice Clone, your fan will hit him out of it and he cannot do another for about 3 seconds. If he does a Slide, it will go under your iAF and you can dash in and get a full f21 BnB combo.

I am not sure, but Sub's :x might hit you out of this option.


KITANA:
All but one of Kitana's wakeup moves are blown up by delayed d3. That one is the Square Boost. The Square Boost is 100% punishable on reaction by a lot of the cast. In the Kitana mirror match, you get a big punish. Do your delayed d3 and if she does her Square Boost to get away, immediately backdash towards where she is escaping to and throw an EN Fan then cancel it to two forward dashes into your full f21 BnB combo.


SINDEL:
Delayed d3 beats all of Sindel's wakeup moves except for Flight. If you are fast, when you do a delayed d3 and she does Flight, you can catch her on the way up with a 2~Fan, 2~Fan Lift for a combo. Kitana's delayed d4 will beat ALL of Sindel's wakeup options, including Flight, but who uses Flight on wakeup? That's what I thought...use d3.


Obviously, if a Sindel player decides to implement Flight as a wakeup option, they aren't just going to fly and do nothing. They will most likely do an instant Flight Air Fireball or a Flight Cancel. The above punish will not work if they do this, you must block or use another d3 or d1.

ERMAC:
The first thing you need to know about Ermac waking up is that if you are close and you simply block any of his wakeup moves, you get to punish him for free. Lift is like -1000 on block. Push is punishable by I think every character in the game if you are close enough with a dash in combo of choice. Teleport, yeah...

So I'll get into your other option so you aren't forced to block, like if you don't have the life to block a Push or something.

If you are close enough when you knock him down, dash up to him and jump over him. I would just say to do a crossup Jump Kick, but that gets blown up by a wakeup Teleport or EN Teleport. So what you want to do when you jump is watch what wakeup they do. If they do a Force Lift or Push, you get a free JK~Air Fan. If he does a Levitate or a Teleport (EN or not), then do a Jump Punch~Air Fan into whatever combo you want. This option is tricky because you have to react fast. If he wakes up with block, simply do a JK~Air Fan then mixup with EN Fan Lift, dash up throw, another JK~Air Fan, whatever you want.

Usually, you can at least get a JPS~f41~Cutter for good chip damage and 7/12 of a meter or if it hits, you can leave out the Cutter to get a juggle or leave it on for a free safe jump which resets the situation.

MILEENA:

 

xxteefxx

Kenshi Moderator
Nice. I've started playing kitana from like...a while. and i am attracted to her! since i ever bought mk9 actually. though i chose reptile.

I guess she need a little bit of more work for anti wake up, unlike reptile....though, thnx for those golden stuff Konqurr. Might if i can help in this thread or post some idea's?
Like wake up traps and other stuff that i think u my find interesting?

thnx again man...ur keeping the kitana forum solid! i should do the same on reptile, or Someone should :S
 
I'm 90% sure that Sheevas B1 which has 21 frames beats Sindels cartwheel wake up clean, just saying if Kitana has a similar normal with that amount of frames.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I'm 90% sure that Sheevas B1 which has 21 frames beats Sindels cartwheel wake up clean, just saying if Kitana has a similar normal with that amount of frames.
The problem with going for a standing attack against Sindel's wakeup is if she does a low fireball, does your attack whiff? You want something that will hit her out of whatever option she tries. Kitana doesn't have anything fast enough really to be timed fast enough to counter every option. If you are close enough, doing a crossup on her wakeup will counter everything she tries. This works against Ermac as well.

@Teef, please post anything you want about dealing with wakeup moves in this thread.
 

Dark Kobra

Hitbox™ Enthusiast
Really appreciate all the hard work your doing for the community Konqrr and have learned lots from your knowledge and stratergies. If there is anything that I can contribute to these forums, I would be more than happy to do so, but just a beginner at the moment, so I may not be that helpful, but once again thanks Konqrr for all you are doing and have done and keep up the great work.
 

VIDA

Focused Grace and Intensity
Unless you are right next to them, normal wakeups are a viable option. Please, by all means, share your thoughts.
All I was gonna type was that in my experience playing Kit against Sindels, it seems to me she can her hit her out of her normal cartwheel and normal low fireball with f2 if she's in range at the time of the wakeup without strict timing. Dont know if that type of wakeup interrutpion is common to every char tho. I just know that alot of chars Ive played against like SZ, CSZ, Stryker...etc have normal wakeups that were easily interrupted by her f2 when in range. But like you said if Sindel or any char really has meter then they can EN a wakeup and f2 wont work, like I know it wont against EN low fireball. But f2 is great when pressuring a char with no bars filled.

Against some normal wakeups like Mileena's TP f2,1 would still be viable b/c it would instantly get Kit out of range and both chars would whiff and end up at sweep distance. It doesnt work on Mileena's roll tho. But who knows maybe it gets Mileena players to stop using the TP as a wakeup and either block or use the roll which I personally punish with b2~AF into a bnb. Some Mileena players I noticed like to abuse the TP normal as a wakeup b/c its only punishable by relatively quick normals on block (like her neutral 2) and even then they like to "end off" a blocked TP with an immediate air sai which can make the punish require even stricter timing. Esp being a bitch to do online.

Im curious how the f4 mixups would work in such situations as I dont have her use them nearly as much as I should, since Im in too in love with f2,1 or even blocked f2 into fake out kick.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
All I was gonna type was that in my experience playing Kit against Sindels, it seems to me she can her hit her out of her normal cartwheel and normal low fireball with f2 if she's in range at the time of the wakeup without strict timing. Dont know if that type of wakeup interrutpion is common to every char tho. I just know that alot of chars Ive played against like SZ, CSZ, Stryker...etc have normal wakeups that were easily interrupted by her f2 when in range. But like you said if Sindel or any char really has meter then they can EN a wakeup and f2 wont work, like I know it wont against EN low fireball. But f2 is great when pressuring a char with no bars filled.

Against some normal wakeups like Mileena's TP f2,1 would still be viable b/c it would instantly get Kit out of range and both chars would whiff and end up at sweep distance. It doesnt work on Mileena's roll tho. But who knows maybe it gets Mileena players to stop using the TP as a wakeup and either block or use the roll which I personally punish with b2~AF into a bnb. Some Mileena players I noticed like to abuse the TP normal as a wakeup b/c its only punishable by relatively quick normals on block (like her neutral 2) and even then they like to "end off" a blocked TP with an immediate air sai which can make the punish require even stricter timing. Esp being a bitch to do online.

Im curious how the f4 mixups would work in such situations as I dont have her use them nearly as much as I should, since Im in too in love with f2,1 or even blocked f2 into fake out kick.
Good stuff. I was experimenting with using f2 on wakeup against Sindel because she doesn't have a stupid fast move like dash or spin. It seemed to work well, but like you I was getting hit by EN Low FB. If f2 beats all but that, then that is really good because she will be forced to use that one wakeup vs Kitana which setups up a jk~air fan combo for 45% lol

You should never use f4 outside of a jps or if your opponent holds down to stay grounded on wakeup because it is incredibly slow. It is good to use when they stay grounded because their wakeup will no longer have invincibility no matter which move they try to do and they can't immediately do a wakeup because they have to roll back first. f41 will force them to block high and you can link it to Cutter for a free safe jump on hit or 1/2 a meter on block.
 

VIDA

Focused Grace and Intensity
I found something that mite be interesting. If Kit does fan lift as soon as Mileena wakes up, then she can catch all of her wakeups in it (EX or not) depending on where she is on the screen.

It will catch her Telekick and guard jump/sexual assault/neck bite, regardless of version and screen postion. Sweep or closer she will not catch normal roll but she will catch EN rolll. At mid-full screen its vice versa for the rolls.

EN fan lift doesnt seem to work as well if used the same way, since it being faster means the timing of everything is slightly off. However it could still have use for catching wakeups on super quick reaction after seeing whats being used?

Idk, and Im wondering how the normal fan lift method works on the rest of the cast. Obviously not a perfect tactic, but interesting and maybe even pretty useful, esp if the opp Mileena has certain patterns you can read and anticipate, like them almost always using Telekick to wakeup...etc.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I found something that mite be interesting. If Kit does fan lift as soon as Mileena wakes up, then she can catch all of her wakeups in it (EX or not) depending on where she is on the screen.

It will catch her Telekick and guard jump/sexual assault/neck bite, regardless of version and screen postion. Sweep or closer she will not catch normal roll but she will catch EN rolll. At mid-full screen its vice versa for the rolls.

EN fan lift doesnt seem to work as well if used the same way, since it being faster means the timing of everything is slightly off. However it could still have use for catching wakeups on super quick reaction after seeing whats being used?

Idk, and Im wondering how the normal fan lift method works on the rest of the cast. Obviously not a perfect tactic, but interesting and maybe even pretty useful, esp if the opp Mileena has certain patterns you can read and anticipate, like them almost always using Telekick to wakeup...etc.
I tested f2 out vs Mileena and it works great. It required precise timing.

I made a vs Mileena video, check the OP.
 
Intersting. Never realized that sweeps didn't produce a knockdown if used on a wakeup.

The Mileena punishes are hilarious. The sweep is just that darn safe on all her options. BUT, what if the Mileena does wakeup telly + air sai on block? I guess that's just a general Mileena thing, but I dont quite get how to punish blocked telly + air sai.
 

VIDA

Focused Grace and Intensity
Intersting. Never realized that sweeps didn't produce a knockdown if used on a wakeup.

The Mileena punishes are hilarious. The sweep is just that darn safe on all her options. BUT, what if the Mileena does wakeup telly + air sai on block? I guess that's just a general Mileena thing, but I dont quite get how to punish blocked telly + air sai.
In the video posted Konqrr had Kit punish the EX telekick with d1. Even if Mileena ends with a sai it will whiff and she'll still get hit I would think.

Maybe block stun would prevent the d1 coming out before the sai but perhaps d1 could still punish before she hits the ground anyways. Sry I have no way of testing this without trying it in a versus match.
 
Yeah it probably WOULD hit, but see I'm never really satisfied with just using D1 to punish certain specials that can be used repeatedly because I'll end up eating chip damage while iving out 3%s at worst. That produces a match that goes slowly and totally ruins me if I make a mistake.

I saw the D1 punishes. They consume meter though, and that just... idk kinda bugs me. I'd rather save my meter for breaks on Mileena. Her mixups get me... that double hitting low cancelled into a ball or the overhead popups drive me mad.

I played this really good Mileena the other day who would time sai tosses really low to the ground. I felt I was still in blockstun from the point of blocking the kick to where the Mileena tossed the sais, and by the time she was done, I couldn't really hit with 2.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Yeah it probably WOULD hit, but see I'm never really satisfied with just using D1 to punish certain specials that can be used repeatedly because I'll end up eating chip damage while iving out 3%s at worst. That produces a match that goes slowly and totally ruins me if I make a mistake.

I saw the D1 punishes. They consume meter though, and that just... idk kinda bugs me. I'd rather save my meter for breaks on Mileena. Her mixups get me... that double hitting low cancelled into a ball or the overhead popups drive me mad.

I played this really good Mileena the other day who would time sai tosses really low to the ground. I felt I was still in blockstun from the point of blocking the kick to where the Mileena tossed the sais, and by the time she was done, I couldn't really hit with 2.
In order to punish the EX Telekick with Sai, you MUST block the second kick low and duck the Sai. d1 is the only punish that you can get unless you are Kung Lao or someone with a really fast special. Characters with a fast uppercut (not Kitana/Shang) can duck the Sai and uppercut every time.
 

VIDA

Focused Grace and Intensity
Ye

I played this really good Mileena the other day who would time sai tosses really low to the ground. I felt I was still in blockstun from the point of blocking the kick to where the Mileena tossed the sais, and by the time she was done, I couldn't really hit with 2.
I would seriously lmao so hard if that player was SaibotMK. That guys Mileena gives my Kit so many problems with those awesome 50/50 mixups she has off jumpins, and the sai off telekick stuff. Only great Mileena Ive really played who does that stuff, that's why I ask.
 
Blargh, I had a feeling you'd say that. Well thanks for the tip.

I dont remember the Mileena player exactly... but SaidbotMK's name DOES sound familiar. It coulda been :confused:
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
ERMAC:
The first thing you need to know about Ermac waking up is that if you are close and you simply block any of his wakeup moves, you get to punish him for free. Lift is like -1000 on block. Push is punishable by I think every character in the game if you are close enough with a dash in combo of choice. Teleport, yeah...

So I'll get into your other option so you aren't forced to block, like if you don't have the life to block a Push or something.

If you are close enough when you knock him down, dash up to him and jump over him. I would just say to do a crossup Jump Kick, but that gets blown up by a wakeup Teleport or EN Teleport. So what you want to do when you jump is watch what wakeup they do. If they do a Force Lift or Push, you get a free JK~Air Sai. If he does a Levitate or a Teleport (EN or not), then do a Jump Punch~Air Sai into whatever combo you want. This option is tricky because you have to react fast. If he wakes up with block, simply do a JK~Air Sai then mixup with EN Fan Lift, dash up throw, another JK~Air Sai, whatever you want.

Usually, you can at least get a JPS~f41~Cutter for good chip damage and 7/12 of a meter or if it hits, you can leave out the Cutter to get a juggle or leave it on for a free safe jump which resets the situation.
Air Sai???????????????

BTW EarthBound, my Mileena plays that way as well...
 

Geochron

Noob
Thanks a lot for everything you're doing, man! I can honestly say my Kitana is better just from watching what you did at Revelations.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
The toe tap thing is not fair at all...the air fan concept is good tho.
The problem with the d3 is that I have to be able to close the distance before you can do the wakeup. You guys are encouraged to discover other ways to beat wakeup ^_^