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Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

Apex Kano

Kano Commando main MKX
Also, Cyber projectiles needs a buff. After all the mid knives are the best tools about Cyber..oh and the swaggy up laser.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
Opinion: Kano in his current state no longer has any losing MUs if you consider all his variations.
I would say yes and no in my opinion.

To the original cast including Goro. Yes. If you considered all his variations in the beta yeah. Kano in my opinion is placed in a better position to win any match up. I'm not talking about one specific variation here. Just kano and all.

But... With Dlc Tanya and Tremor for me I'm saying. Then the match up is a toss up and quite frankly not in his favor. Don't get me wrong he is solid but I don't think it's cut in dry has say Kung Jin or Jason in the match ups.

My opinion of course.

Interesting question.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Opinion: Kano in his current state no longer has any losing MUs if you consider all his variations.
Hell you probably don't even need the other two any more at this point, Cutthroat could end up having less and less losing matchups as time goes on. Assuming he keeps his beta buffs you have a safe footsie tool that covers about half the screen which also gives you a arguably better safe corner vortex than he already had, good damage (both metered and meterless), a flash parry, decent zoning, some of the safest if not THE safest mixups in the game, decent pressure. If they removed the DoT on ex buff what would Cutthroat actually lack? What would stop him from winning or going even in pretty much every matchup? This is why they shouldn't have touched Cutthroat AGAIN, did they not learn from last time? Lol
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Hell you probably don't even need the other two any more at this point, Cutthroat could end up having less and less losing matchups as time goes on. Assuming he keeps his beta buffs you have a safe footsie tool that covers about half the screen which also gives you a arguably better safe corner vortex than he already had, good damage (both metered and meterless), a flash parry, decent zoning, some of the safest if not THE safest mixups in the game, decent pressure. If they removed the DoT on ex buff what would Cutthroat actually lack? What would stop him from winning or going even in pretty much every matchup? This is why they shouldn't have touched Cutthroat AGAIN, did they not learn from last time? Lol
He's lacking a teleport though
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
I need some advice on fighting johny cage guys. Is it me or johnies projectiles trade with cyber kanos so you cant even zone him with cyber because knives only do 5 percent damage. Am i doing something wrong here any advice would help
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
I'm asking this having already formed an opinion based on playing against him quite a bit but i'm curious about perspectives from people who actually play him. Without devolving too much let's just say I think he's out of control now but need a reality check. :)
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I'm asking this having already formed an opinion based on playing against him quite a bit but i'm curious about perspectives from people who actually play him. Without devolving too much let's just say I think he's out of control now but need a reality check. :)
He's good. A lot better than before but not DLC broke lol
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
I'm asking this having already formed an opinion based on playing against him quite a bit but i'm curious about perspectives from people who actually play him. Without devolving too much let's just say I think he's out of control now but need a reality check. :)
He's not played any different now than he was before. He's got a brand new fwd advancing string but that's hardly unique in this game. Choke is now plus on hit, but it always should have been. B1 tick is honestly meh IMO. It performs no new function that wasn't already there with D1,3,4 ticks and has a much tighter window to pull off. I honestly don't even use it. So I don't know what people are on about that he's so good now.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
He's not played any different now than he was before. He's got a brand new fwd advancing string but that's hardly unique in this game. Choke is now plus on hit, but it always should have been. B1 tick is honestly meh IMO. It performs no new function that wasn't already there with D1,3,4 ticks and has a much tighter window to pull off. I honestly don't even use it. So I don't know what people are on about that he's so good now.
b1 tick is actually great, the 22 string changes several MU's and being plus on choke means he has stronger oki. He's a lot better.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
b1 tick is actually great, the 22 string changes several MU's and being plus on choke means he has stronger oki. He's a lot better.
I understand all of that and agree, but saying he's this juggernaut is just untrue I think. However maybe it's just that I haven't gotten used to b1 but I don't think it's a game changer. Maybe if you use it a bunch and condition people to try to jump the tick so they get a small combo instead from you mixing it up or make a read they'll try it but that's it. But it is something so there's that. Plus it's much tighter/harder to pull off than the other ticks.
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
I didn't have much experience against him prepatch as my buddy who's basically Kano exclusive only really played Cybernetic. After the patch I feel he does a ton of things really well with no serious weaknesses. I've played vs. a lot of the cast and I can't remember the last time I fought someone that has me as afraid of hitting buttons throughout the entire match as this guy.

So yeah, I do think he's REALLY good. Granted, I've played most of my matches vs. him with Acidic Alien (which I think is a terrible matchup, 4-6 at best). Time will tell.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I understand all of that and agree, but saying he's this juggernaut is just untrue I think. However maybe it's just that I haven't gotten used to b1 but I don't think it's a game changer. Maybe if you use it a bunch and condition people to try to jump the tick so they get a small combo instead from you mixing it up or make a read they'll try it but that's it. But it is something so there's that. Plus it's much tighter/harder to pull off than the other ticks.
B1 tick gives you sick oki.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I didn't have much experience against him prepatch as my buddy who's basically Kano exclusive only really played Cybernetic. After the patch I feel he does a ton of things really well with no serious weaknesses. I've played vs. a lot of the cast and I can't remember the last time I fought someone that has me as afraid of hitting buttons throughout the entire match as this guy.

So yeah, I do think he's REALLY good. Granted, I've played most of my matches vs. him with Acidic Alien (which I think is a terrible matchup, 4-6 at best). Time will tell.
Can you say what it is that makes him so good?
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
--Even with the B1 nerf his normals and universal strings are crazy good (safe). Ignoring the uppercut and sweep, 4 out of 6 of his universal normals are -5 on block or better. The remaining two are -7 and -8 respectively. Universal strings: 2 are -8, the remaining 6 are all -2 or better with mostly average startup frames. I don't have the frame data for 2,2, but it almost doesn't matter because y'all know how good it is by now. The one other new Commando string is uber unsafe (-16) but whatever. I.E., played intelligently he has an amazingly safe footsies game.

--Damage per button is kinda off the charts, now, enabled by ability to trigger command throws on hit. Ex. 22 + DFB4EX = 30%. Mitigated somewhat by the cmd throws being awful on block. 30% for 3 buttons and a bar is nuts. Can't think of anyone else on the cast that can pull this off.

--Up Ball - I'm not sure what the rationale was for making this an overhead, but this is a game-changer. Looking at the move itself, he now has a single tool that's a 2-frame overhead that can hit you in 3 different ways (overhead-low at mid-range, low only at long-range, or low only if he happens to crossover while in ball form). This has given him a sort of mixup game he never had, which was supposed to be his glaring weakness. It's still horrifically unsafe, but it's harder to punish with many members of the cast now because the overhead block causes him to land a longer distance away so, ultimately, it's way more feasible to throw this out regularly in the neutral just because it's that good.

--Command Throws have extremely fast startup frames (4,5,and 10) and are also armored. For comparison, Goro's command grab has nearly double the startup frames and still does less damage without bar expenditure. With bar expenditure the two big ones knock you for >20+ by themselves. I haven't looked at any of the other grapplers to be certain but does anyone else in the cast even come close to that?

--Projectiles: Some people might believe Cyber's mid projectiles are difficult to deal with but I think the non-cyber high knives are a bigger pain. The higher hitbox means jumping them is a lot more difficult. With the new and improved air ball to antiair when you do decide to jump in it's an incredible pain for characters who either lack a projectile altogether or have one inferior to Kano's.

I feel like there's more I'm thinking of but that's enough for now. I think the character in general got better with the patch despite the B1 nerf (yes, even Cyber). You basically take already good footsies and an amazing armored wakeup game with Kano/Up Ball, then add the new and improved Up Ball, the ability to link command throws on hit, the crazy range of the 22 string, and really high damage for little work. He's pretty outrageous right now.

There isn't a lot of gameplay footage out there yet for him but the first video I found is here. I can't speak for the quality of his opponents but this dude rolls EVERYBODY, i.e. most of the matches aren't even competitive.

 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Can you say what it is that makes him so good?
B1 ex command grab eats their armor and hits them if they don't let go of block. B1 EX Choke hits them if they try to jump the command grab and breaks armor as well. B13 is safe. And whiffed b1 recovers before they get up if they delay their wakeup so you can b1 + Input ex command grab (whiff) into b1 input ex command grab (hit)
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
yeah, this is kinda what I'm getting at. There's potentially a lot more dirt to be uncovered with this guy and he's already so good.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
yeah, this is kinda what I'm getting at. There's potentially a lot more dirt to be uncovered with this guy and he's already so good.
He's not dirty however. He's got good stuff but unlikely to be top 10. Everything is a read, most of his stuff can be backdashed.