Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

[Youphemism]

I feel like you either don't play against really good Cassie's or your some kind of Master Kano because I'm no easy win as Kano, I've worked with him everyday since release.

I struggle heavily against good Cassie players.

The character is broke man. Stupid broke.

Just because people aren't using her much yet on the major scene, doesn't mean she isn't broke.

She can easily win this MU, easily. It's not a favorable MU.

I don't even feel like getting into everything you put because there is do much I disagree with.

Regardless, I'm going to keep working at it till I figure it out.

Thanks for the input though.

Well first of all how long you've played the character makes no difference to how good you are with him or how good you are in certain matchups with them, I'm a day 1 K N I F E B O Y too. But secondly it honestly is a matchup that's in Kano's favour, you sound like you have a real problem with the matchup which is confusing (at least to me) but also more reason for the community to discuss the matchup so all the Kanos know how to handle it and we're here to help you with it

As for the remark that I might be playing bad Cassies that's not true because the only Cassies I've fought are from TYM. My training partner mains Cassie too so maybe it's because I know the matchup so well lol. This just comes down to you I'm afraid, but that's not to say you aren't good because we have played before once if you remember

Cassie is annoying if she gets in but if you zone her out properly she shouldn't bug you most of the time. But by no means is she broke. Yes she has good mixups but her damage output doesn't match up to Kanos unless she's got you in the corner really.

After reading what everyone else has to say I'll retract my statement about the footsie game for now but they do both have really good footsie tools. You've just got to make her take risks, abuse your walkspeed and whiff punish/trip guard as much as possible because Kanos back walkspeed is actually probably better than people realise. Also if you neutral duck it slightly decreases the range at which her B1 will hit you so keep that mind as you're playing around the neutral. Don't be afraid to poke if you see her getting too close because it will actually help keep her at bay. You want that space as much as possible because if she gets in she will become as broke as you're making her sound until you block and punish lol.

I'll leave you to it though, I'm sure you'll come up with something but if you need help we're all here for you

 

[thlityoursloat]

Zoning in this game only works for so long. Eventually she'll get in and she'll tear you apart. You can't outfootsie her and you can't out 50/50 her.
Is this some of the better MUs for the top tier characters? Yeah. Is this a good MU? Hell no, not until they nerf her elbow.

 

[DFC]

I might be playing bad Cassies that's not true because the only Cassies I've fought are from TYM.

In a vacuum, this is hilarious

 

[OmGxBdON]

Zoning in this game only works for so long. Eventually she'll get in and she'll tear you apart. You can't outfootsie her and you can't out 50/50 her.
Is this some of the better MUs for the top tier characters? Yeah. Is this a good MU? Hell no, not until they nerf her elbow.

Agreed, kanos not helpless though he does have a strong offense. They're definently not nerfin her elbow. I hope they do but they won't. Commando does counter her amazin normals. And cybernetic has better zonin and more offensive options.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm at risk of blowing up my own Kano talk in this convo lol.

As I said earlier, Youph's description on how to play the MU is pretty spot on. I disagree with "oh he does ok but still it sucks". I honestly think this MU is in Cyber Kano's favor unquestionably. Yes she has possibly the 2nd best footsie tools in the game, but Cyber Kano's are good enough to hold his own in the nuetral. Not by trying to rush her down with them, but by using his footsie tools defensively to control the spacing and punish her bad/frustrated/risky decisions.

As far as zoning, no one is saying to zone her full screen an entire match like Summoner QC. Kano doesn't work that way unless you're playing scrubs. His zoning is annoying the opponent until they get closer, and then using it for spacing control and strong reads, back into more space. This works amazing in the Cassie MU because if you are zoning well with good timing, catching ji's with knives, using EX to keep them off balance, killing trip guards, backdashing, EX Air ball sporadically to stay unpredictable, etc, then she has helllll getting in. When she does, because eventually she will, he can poke with her with D4's, F4's, B1's, etc, establish position, and force her into taking risk.

The MU has to be played slow, very lame, and with patience, but there's no way at all this is not a MU in Kano's favor, and this is me talking lol.

 

[Dean]

I'm at risk of blowing up my own Kano talk in this convo lol.

As I said earlier, Youph's description on how to play the MU is pretty spot on. I disagree with "oh he does ok but still it sucks". I honestly think this MU is in Cyber Kano's favor unquestionably. Yes she has possibly the 2nd best footsie tools in the game, but Cyber Kano's are good enough to hold his own in the nuetral. Not by trying to rush her down with them, but by using his footsie tools defensively to control the spacing and punish her bad/frustrated/risky decisions.

As far as zoning, no one is saying to zone her full screen an entire match like Summoner QC. Kano doesn't work that way unless you're playing scrubs. His zoning is annoying the opponent until they get closer, and then using it for spacing control and strong reads, back into more space. This works amazing in the Cassie MU because if you are zoning well with good timing, catching ji's with knives, using EX to keep them off balance, killing trip guards, backdashing, EX Air ball sporadically to stay unpredictable, etc, then she has helllll getting in. When she does, because eventually she will, he can poke with her with D4's, F4's, B1's, etc, establish position, and force her into taking risk.

The MU has to be played slow, very lame, and with patience, but there's no way at all this is not a MU in Kano's favor, and this is me talking lol.

Ok, here is my take thus far.

Her D3 stuffs any true footsie control you try. Unless I'm doing something severally wrong or maybe I'm timing her D3 wrong, it traps me in place unless I BD out.

NJP and JIP take priority over every anti air I tries, including D2. Trip gaurd was the only consistent option I found but even that can put you at a disadvantage.

Zoning, Kano wins, if the opposing Cassie was willing to stay at bay and try and trafd, this wouldn't be an issue at all. No good Cassie will do this, ever. Cassie has her gun, all she needs is to catch you off timing one time to make her move in on you. She doesn't have to win the zoning battle, she just has to disrupt it in order to advance. Which is easy for the couple guys I play against on my local scene.

Kano ball isn't an option in the air, it really isn't much of an option period. Cassie blocks a wake up ball, air ball, up ball, you are eating a lot of damage which leads to a hkd, which leads to more of a very unfavorable situation.

I mean, armor is a joke against Cassie on wake up. She can blow it up with her stupid fast leg kick or just block without fear.

I know there are ways around this but those options are a lot harder to pull off when Kano's kit is limited in comparison from jump street.

With all of that said, I just need more exp with this MU. I think it's BS how good NRS made this character, I will not concede that she's isn't broken because she is.

Many legit Cassie player have said the same.

She's broke.

Anyway, I'm a hard worker and I've been down this road with many other characters in this game and I've found a way with them.. This will be no different.

She just annoys me more than any other character In this game.

 

[Dean]

Well first of all how long you've played the character makes no difference to how good you are with him or how good you are in certain matchups with them, I'm a day 1 K N I F E B O Y too. But secondly it honestly is a matchup that's in Kano's favour, you sound like you have a real problem with the matchup which is confusing (at least to me) but also more reason for the community to discuss the matchup so all the Kanos know how to handle it and we're here to help you with it

As for the remark that I might be playing bad Cassies that's not true because the only Cassies I've fought are from TYM. My training partner mains Cassie too so maybe it's because I know the matchup so well lol. This just comes down to you I'm afraid, but that's not to say you aren't good because we have played before once if you remember

Cassie is annoying if she gets in but if you zone her out properly she shouldn't bug you most of the time. But by no means is she broke. Yes she has good mixups but her damage output doesn't match up to Kanos unless she's got you in the corner really.

After reading what everyone else has to say I'll retract my statement about the footsie game for now but they do both have really good footsie tools. You've just got to make her take risks, abuse your walkspeed and whiff punish/trip guard as much as possible because Kanos back walkspeed is actually probably better than people realise. Also if you neutral duck it slightly decreases the range at which her B1 will hit you so keep that mind as you're playing around the neutral. Don't be afraid to poke if you see her getting too close because it will actually help keep her at bay. You want that space as much as possible because if she gets in she will become as broke as you're making her sound until you block and punish lol.

I'll leave you to it though, I'm sure you'll come up with something but if you need help we're all here for you

Your right it doesn't but its a safe bet that when you invest as much time as I have into a character, you will come away with a really good idea of what that character can do and what he cant do.

I do remember playing you and I am a much better player than I was then. Much better, as I'm sure you are too.

Overall my strategy in this MU is that I play too defensive for my own good, I have been bodied so many times by this character, that the character its self is in my head.

I just gotta break it down more, lab it out more and lean on some local guys to help me out. This board helps too.

Again, thanks for the input.

 

[Zatoichi]

So what is everyone's strategy against Kitana? Can't seem to do anything against her unless she really plays recklessly which doesn't happen. The tiniest mistake on my end and I eat 30% + damage meterless. Tried using all three variations against her with no luck. How can I punish her air game bs?

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Guys, how u fight against hish qu ten?
He zone me out, if we trade projectiles, it knock me on the ground, that make his next projectile faster, than mine

 

[DFC]

Well I've never played a Takeda before, and my last match showed that.

 

[MsMiharo]

How are you all feeling about Goro? I've struggled a lot with commando vs DF and the fireball variation but while jabbing with cyber I realised you can anti air stomp on reaction with up laser. If they do it on top of you, you can combo with f4 ball for 21% meterless. If they do it behind you you're safe, in front of you it's harder to combo but you still get the 7% and you won't trade. Also it's really easy to react to

 

[ArmedCalf]

I know there was a massive Cassie post, but is that in Cutthroat's favor? It seems 6-4 or at least a hard 5-5

 

[bdizzle2700]

Ok, here is my take thus far.

Her D3 stuffs any true footsie control you try. Unless I'm doing something severally wrong or maybe I'm timing her D3 wrong, it traps me in place unless I BD out.

NJP and JIP take priority over every anti air I tries, including D2. Trip gaurd was the only consistent option I found but even that can put you at a disadvantage.

Zoning, Kano wins, if the opposing Cassie was willing to stay at bay and try and trafd, this wouldn't be an issue at all. No good Cassie will do this, ever. Cassie has her gun, all she needs is to catch you off timing one time to make her move in on you. She doesn't have to win the zoning battle, she just has to disrupt it in order to advance. Which is easy for the couple guys I play against on my local scene.

Kano ball isn't an option in the air, it really isn't much of an option period. Cassie blocks a wake up ball, air ball, up ball, you are eating a lot of damage which leads to a hkd, which leads to more of a very unfavorable situation.

I mean, armor is a joke against Cassie on wake up. She can blow it up with her stupid fast leg kick or just block without fear.

I know there are ways around this but those options are a lot harder to pull off when Kano's kit is limited in comparison from jump street.

With all of that said, I just need more exp with this MU. I think it's BS how good NRS made this character, I will not concede that she's isn't broken because she is.

Many legit Cassie player have said the same.

She's broke.

Anyway, I'm a hard worker and I've been down this road with many other characters in this game and I've found a way with them.. This will be no different.

She just annoys me more than any other character In this game.

Might not be the best cassie but hopefully it helps

 

[bdizzle2700]

So what is everyone's strategy against Kitana? Can't seem to do anything against her unless she really plays recklessly which doesn't happen. The tiniest mistake on my end and I eat 30% + damage meterless. Tried using all three variations against her with no luck. How can I punish her air game bs?

I use cyber. I do my best to punish every jump in so she has to stay grounded where you can out footsie her. Jump ins and floats can be beaten with aa laser. You can b1 and d2 but at a certain range float will make it wiff and punish (maybe not b1 cause it recovers quick but def a d2). From about full screen bait reflect and either wait to throw a knife or run in and punish with b1

 

[Matador Fiend]

Kotal is giving me the business lately. His buttons are just so damn good after the patch, im not sure how to play this mu. I use cybernetic but you cant win the mu with knives, eventually you gotta play the neutral and up close game and it just seems like kotal has a significant advantage there.

 

[MsMiharo]

How do you all deal with Takeda? Played a competent Shirai Ryu for the first time and got mopped. His normals reach so much further. He can trade knives with kunai (Cyber) and win, etc. Ideas?

 

[MsMiharo]

Kotal is giving me the business lately. His buttons are just so damn good after the patch, im not sure how to play this mu. I use cybernetic but you cant win the mu with knives, eventually you gotta play the neutral and up close game and it just seems like kotal has a significant advantage there.

I find it hard as fuck. I like commando for it though cause you can parry his frame traps. d4 and f4 are your best friends since he advances so fast. Choke also anti-airs jump ins like a boss.

 

[Derptile]

How do you all deal with Takeda? Played a competent Shirai Ryu for the first time and got mopped. His normals reach so much further. He can trade knives with kunai (Cyber) and win, etc. Ideas?

You get in and annoy with with stagger strings. There's no way that Kano can win the long range game anymore, so when you get in just use B1, B13, B31, 2, and D4 to annoy him since Takeda's buttons, backdash, and armor options aren't all that fast.

 

[MsMiharo]

You get in and annoy with with stagger strings. There's no way that Kano can win the long range game anymore, so when you get in just use B1, B13, B31, 2, and D4 to annoy him since Takeda's buttons, backdash, and armor options aren't all that fast.

Yeah I tried but I felt like whenever I wasn't literally on top of him I was losing. Does he no longer have gaps in his strings?

 

[Derptile]

Yeah I tried but I felt like whenever I wasn't literally on top of him I was losing. Does he no longer have gaps in his strings?

He did, but alot of them were removed in the patch lol, I do think some gaps are still there but you have to check which strings your opponent was using.

Just know that many of his options(not all) are actually - on block like his stagger strings and tele-cancels. Takeda is one those characters that'll maul you if you don't know the specifics of the MU so try to find the holes of your opponents gameplan and challenge them.

 

[MsMiharo]

He did, but alot of them were removed in the patch lol, I do think some gaps are still there but you have to check which strings your opponent was using.

Just know that many of his options(not all) are actually - on block like his stagger strings and tele-cancels. Takeda is one those characters that'll maul you if you don't know the specifics of the MU so try to find the holes of your opponents gameplan and challenge them.

hmm need to lab it. it felt like I was getting beat when he tele cancelled. Also a lot of his strings leaves him at an awkward range where b1 won't hit but f4 won't punish.

 

[Darth Mao]

Any tips against Kenjutsu/Balance Kenshi?

 

[Derptile]

Any tips against Kenjutsu/Balance Kenshi?

Which variation are you using?

 

[KitanawantstheD]

Playing against takeda is the worst especially as cutthroat. I try the best I can but honestly he's a toss up.

 

[Darth Mao]

Which variation are you using?

Actually i'm using Cutthroat Kano [ps.: nice guide, dude].