Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

[Paul the Octopus]

It is weaker than the rest of the cast. That's true. Maybe not the weakest but it definitely falls short compared to pressure monsters like Kung Lao.

I think they should return Kano's b1 recovery, but keep it -. Still, Cyber players have to use it.

Man...i miss pre-patch b1.

They could honestly make it neutral and I think that would be fine.

Takeda and Kenshi have 8 frame d1s now so it's not a pseudo block infinite on them anymore.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

2,1,4 is a f2,1,2 punish on block if Scorpion doesn't special cancel it, the f2 can not be mashed however and needs to be timed as Scorpions leg is coming back from the kick. Point blank overhead demon has very little blockstun but even standing 4 punishes it.

Ninjutsu b2 is an f2,1,2 punish anywhere on the screen. Ninjutsu f2 from too close gets ex kanoball punished. Ninjutsu b3,2,f2 is also a CT f2 punish on block.

My take on the Scorpion match up is the following: As Kano you want to use Cutthroat due to the better mix-up potential, better corner game, higher combo damage and better punishes regardless of what variation the Scorpion player uses. Scorpion only gets a d1 on f2,1,2 even when finished, same goes for bladeslice, so even bladeslice can be used at neutral. Since Inferno and Ninjutsu are not that big of a deal anyway I am going to discuss Hellfire.

My gameplan is to just push Scorpion to the corner. I walk forward against Hellfire as I am not really forced to low block and fuzzy demons into dashes as you have to do against Inferno. Walking short distances into blocking will condition to Scorpion player not to react to you releasing block by just ex teleporting at neutral if he sees that you are not blocking. I just walk forward and block, throw a knife here and there to stop random flame aura activations, hellfires or maybe even ex spears. Getting too happy with knives is not the way to go obviously due to the threat of the teleport, but I just sprinkle them here and there to make the Scorpion player at least think about them so he won't just get to activate aura for free or do free hellfires. I don't try to bait Scorpion to whiff jump-in attacks that much to punish them with f2 due to the threat of ex tele, I try to get him to do the first move though. I'll just try and react to what he is doing (play at a distance where I can still react to run up normals) and stop him from getting his offence going by winning the neutral. In terms of footsie tools, I do think Kano has a slight advantage due to his f4, bladeslice and knife, d4's are almost identical. I try to maintain a very specific distance against Scorpion, basically, anywhere from a distance where I can upball him before he reaches the highest point of his jump to an angle where I can still uppercut him right before his jumping 3 hits Kano in crouch block. Uppercut at the last possible time seems to be the best AA against Scorpion's jumping 3/potential air tele mix-up. F3 into fire ball run cancel pressure can be armored through and a 2,1,4 follow-up can be backdashed and punished before the last hit comes out so I don't think f3 is that big of a factor in the footsie game, mostly Scorpion will have to run up to d4 if he is gonna approach on the ground, or run up f2, both of these can be beat out with f4 or a d4 of your own or a backdash or jump back to see if you can Kanoball a whiff every now and then. If the Scorpion player is not blocking at neutral you should always be within range to check him with a bladeslice, bladeslice also has a hitbox above Kano towards the end of the animation so when properly spaced it will not get stuffed and will even hit jumps. If Scorpion does a normal tele, chances are it will just be a fake-out into a throw and he is negative anyway so I'll just NJP or cross him over to maintain positioning as his feet touch the ground.

Scorpion is in the driver's seat in this match-up definitely, he can empty jump and there is not much you can do about it due to threat of ex tele, but he has to take the initiative to avoid getting cornered, he can't really build meter or do chip at a distance and neither can you. Being too greedy to run up and d4 or f4 Scorpion is a bad plan due to once again his jump/tele and maybe even a random flame aura activation as a defensive measure. But I do believe that if you just maintain distance where you are moving forward more then you are giving ground and throwing a knife here and there and reacting to what he does you can just "keep on keeping on" and eventually push him to the corner without getting hit by his jump attacks, tele or d4 into offence. Once he is cornered you can just keep him there until he is forced to tele/tele cancel, armor or do something else unsafe.

Kano is at a slight disadvantage, but I don't see this MU being that bad. Maybe I need to play this MU more but this is how I feel at this point. The avalanche effect also works in Kano's favour in this MU, when Scorpion is cornered or knocked down it can all go down the shitter for him pretty quickly. His wakeups do suck, Neutral jump, crossover, or jump towards on a knockdown all beat both takedown and tele. He can't just magically force you to block 2,1,4's. You all are making it seem like Scorpion runs circles around Kano when this is not the case. He does restrict Kano's options but it's not like he can do anything he wants, when he wants and there is nothing you can do about it.... When you can. It's a 6-4 advantage for Scorpion at the worst. Online Scorpion will go full retard on you and there is not much you can do to keep him honest but offline he can't get his offence going at will.

 

[SaltShaker]

@Phosferrax

Have to own up when I'm wrong. I'm definitely blocking Scorpion's comboable OH 8.5/10 times now from blocking low then high after his vortex shenanigans. The only thing that consistently is catching me is the occasional throw, since I'm looking for the 50/50 block most times. You for sure was right man. Still haven't beat a high level tourney player in a set against him, but that will change very soon.


With Tanya that is.

 

[Phosferrax]

@Phosferrax

Have to own up when I'm wrong. I'm definitely blocking Scorpion's comboable OH 8.5/10 times now from blocking low then high after his vortex shenanigans. The only thing that consistently is catching me is the occasional throw, since I'm looking for the 50/50 block most times. You for sure was right man. Still haven't beat a high level tourney player in a set against him, but that will change very soon.


With Tanya that is.

Props for the apology. When he has such high damage into a restand into inescapable chip into a 33/33/33 it doesn't really matter that his OH is reactable though lol.

I still get tagged by it every once in a while like you say, but this talk of a launching vortex is nonsense.

 

[JTB123]

Props for the apology. When he has such high damage into a restand into inescapable chip into a 33/33/33 it doesn't really matter that his OH is reactable though lol.

I still get tagged by it every once in a while like you say, but this talk of a launching vortex is nonsense.

Speaking as a Scorpion player, it really does matter that his F4 is reactable but in a good way. If it was a true vortex he could potentially kill you in one wrong guess.

Max damage F4 combos hit like a truck... that was thrown at you by the Incredible Hulk. That move should be reactable and vulnerable to fast normals.

 

[SaltShaker]

As I've said countless times, Sub is probably my most played against character due to my training partners. Over all these lost hours I'm feeling bold enough to say that this MU is in Kano's favor. Referring to Grand Master vs Cyber and Cutt. Once you know this MU like the back of your hand it isn't too tough at all.

6-4 Cutt.
Clear 6-4 Cyber.
0-0 Commando.

Kano still lives!

 

[MsMiharo]

As I've said countless times, Sub is probably my most played against character due to my training partners. Over all these lost hours I'm feeling bold enough to say that this MU is in Kano's favor. Referring to Grand Master vs Cyber and Cutt. Once you know this MU like the back of your hand it isn't too tough at all.

6-4 Cutt.
Clear 6-4 Cyber.
0-0 Commando.

Kano still lives!

Could you break it down? I get wrecked due to MU inexperience

 

[Youphemism]

As I've said countless times, Sub is probably my most played against character due to my training partners. Over all these lost hours I'm feeling bold enough to say that this MU is in Kano's favor. Referring to Grand Master vs Cyber and Cutt. Once you know this MU like the back of your hand it isn't too tough at all.

6-4 Cutt.
Clear 6-4 Cyber.
0-0 Commando.

Kano still lives!

YEEEEAAAPPPP I've been saying this ever since I first played the matchup

 

[SaltShaker]

Could you break it down? I get wrecked due to MU inexperience

No problem. When I get home tonight.

 

[DFC]

No problem. When I get home tonight.

what, you some kind of loser with a job or friends or something?

And I still get beat down by Liu Kang.

 

[SaltShaker]

Could you break it down? I get wrecked due to MU inexperience

Cyber-

Zone him down. The usual zoning options work well in this MU. 3/4 to full screen he's pretty helpless. You have to play it based off of making good reads, and if you do you'll run away with it here using knives mixed with delays, and ball punishes. If you have meter almost always EX Knives when he does the clone since you can both shatter it and hit him if he tries to ice ball.

Footsie range, the most important area in this MU. I think the most vital thing to learn is what his unsafe strings and clone setups are. Once you learn these then you'll know what to attack with after he does his moves. Many leave him negative or unsafe, and without either pressuring after the negative or punishing the MU is harder than it should be. You can backdash and punish his entire movelist from this distance, even slide if you're spaced good enough. Then when he starts getting jumpy either air ball or B1. The best thing to do against him though is learn which strings and clone setups are either unsafe or fairly negative, and then follow up accordingly.

Up close, you can use a lot of his pressure strings, keep them unpredictable, and then throw in EX knives into more pressure occasionally. Throw in some grabs as well. You'll have to block after certain strings so make sure to watch out for his lows. The OH is kind of slow so if your reactions are quick enough you can block it after watching the low first. Remember he's pretty negative after so you can attack.

When put in the corner, don't. There's no advice here. Just avoid being cornered at all cost.

I've gotta go play so I'll get into Cutthroat later.


If there's a specific thing giving you trouble Lemme know, but that's a general idea on how I play him.

 

[DFC]

I just want everyone to know that I hate Ermac. I hate him so much. I read this thread, eat up every bit of Ermac-Fu there is, and I still get whooped. If Ermac players read this, I wish for all of you to be transported to a dark room filled with Shin high coffee tables.

 

[bdizzle2700]

I just want everyone to know that I hate Ermac. I hate him so much. I read this thread, eat up every bit of Ermac-Fu there is, and I still get whooped. If Ermac players read this, I wish for all of you to be transported to a dark room filled with Shin high coffee tables.

@niredina no one likes you

 

[Youphemism]

Teleporting characters in general suck for Cybernetic.

A moment of silence dedicated to the fallen Cybernetic Kanos who lost to:
Scorpion (RIP)
Ermac (RIP)
Tanya (RIP)
Shinnok (RIP)
Kung Lao (RIP)
Possessed Kenshi (RIP)
Mileena (RIP)
Hell maybe even Relentless Jason, Displacer Raiden, and Goro! (RIP)

 

[kabelfritz]

so what do you guys think are awesome and terrible matchups for commando?

very good matchups:

jax: get parried all day, not more to say. CK annihilates any kind of jax up close pressure.
dvorah: same thing. does not have a good projectile and has to work in against knives all day. kano can parry her sting moves at sweep range.

good: cassie, similar issues as dvorah.

terrible matchups: grandmaster sub and maybe the other subs. can slide under knives, can low block (!) under them, CK does not have that good tools to deal with corner clone.

 

[MsMiharo]

so what do you guys think are awesoemn and terrible matchups for commando?

very good matchups:

jax: get parried all day, not more to say. CK annihilates any kind of jax up close pressure.
dvorah: same thing. does not have a good projectile and has to work in against knives all day. kano can parry her sting moves at sweep range.

good: cassie, similar issues as dvorah.

terrible matchups: grandmaster sub and maybe the other subs. can slide under knives, can low block (!) under them, CK does not have that good tools to deal with corner clone.

I haven't got that much experience but I feel that he does great vs pressure characters. F/T can be annoying in vicious but I feel he stomps on lackey.

 

[kabelfritz]

I haven't got that much experience but I feel that he does great vs pressure characters. F/T can be annoying in vicious but I feel he stomps on lackey.

yes he is, especially against those who lose the zoning against him. someone like johnny Cage is pretty even because he can handle knives.

 

[SaltShaker]

so what do you guys think are awesome and terrible matchups for commando?

very good matchups:

jax: get parried all day, not more to say. CK annihilates any kind of jax up close pressure.
dvorah: same thing. does not have a good projectile and has to work in against knives all day. kano can parry her sting moves at sweep range.

good: cassie, similar issues as dvorah.

terrible matchups: grandmaster sub and maybe the other subs. can slide under knives, can low block (!) under them, CK does not have that good tools to deal with corner clone.

I would throw Quan Chi under very bad. Not much he can do at all in this MU. The other two variations fair much better.

Good I would add Sonya. In some situations when you're guessing the 50/50 you can guess it with a parry which is big in this MU. Also he can maintain pressure on better than the other two variations.

 

[kabelfritz]

I would throw Quan Chi under very bad. Not much he can do at all in this MU. The other two variations fair much better.

Good I would add Sonya. In some situations when you're guessing the 50/50 you can guess it with a parry which is big in this MU. Also he can maintain pressure on better than the other two variations.

well you know how things go for quan when hes cornered . but i agree, if you fight chars that need to be punished hard because they dont allow you to open them up a lot (safe, armor, good mobility, good wakeup game) are not so good for COM kano

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I don't think quan is too bad for commando actually.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Errons b1 3 it hits overhead low and goes a good distance.

Errons F13 it hits overhead low and goes a good distance...
anyways simply block his OH to LOW and its punishable... high low block, not hard, just play the waiting game a bit with erron, if he ends a combo with Sand Trap punish him on wu with somthing that has distance and is safe like projectiles into full 50/50 pressure, or you can go the latter and keep him back

 

[lemmywinks]

Predator seems to be a pretty tough MU for me. I seem to get hit out of a lot of things, like ball getting stuffed by his poke, or air ball getting stuffed by his disks. I noticed b31 will beat out their armored wakeup if Predator goes for that leaping stab attack. Anyone have any tips on how to beat this guy?

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I've been having bad luck beating the armored lunge with B31, didn't think it was possible, only did it once and with 11. That lunge is a big problem, I do a lot of blocking their wakeup because the EX lunge will even catch a jump backwards.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

@lemmywinks

I've been having bad luck beating the armored lunge with B31, didn't think it was possible, only did it once and with 11. That lunge is a big problem, I do a lot of blocking their wakeup because the EX lunge will even catch a jump backwards.

block it its punishable on block.... as for disks: dont jump in when he has them up.. throw projectile to stop the spam and work on getting in... as for the trap, you can run cancel into crouch block, and that will set off trap then run cancel into 50/50

 

[DFC]

You know, I never thought about this, but I need matchup experience with all 3 Kano variations. I mainly play Cyber though. There's just so many characters and variations I have no experience against.