Discussion Is MKXL 10/4 patch the most offensive version of the game?

[Pig Of The Hut]

Reo needs to A-Paulo-Gize for the Kitana and KENSHI propaganda

 

[xSamuel]

Oh, Pig. I can imagine you cracking yourself up with that one

 

[M2Dave]

To an extent, it is, but there's also a lot of nerfed offense in general. There's been a lot of frame advantage reductions, running in is a good deal more risky, run cancelling is really demanding on stamina, slower overheads for a number of characters, etc.

Looking purely at the armor changes, yeah, there's less to fear about an opponent using armor defensively. There's also a lot less fear of what characters are doing offensively in general.

The game still favors offense, but there's a better balance between the two, and playing defense feels more viable because of everything.

I think this post is currently a fair assessment of the game. But to players who heavily relied on armored launchers (i.e., Kenshi, Shinnok, Tremor, etc.), this game's defensive options will feel as though they had deteriorated.

Reo needs to A-Paulo-Gize for the Kitana and KENSHI propaganda

As someone who is constantly asked to apologize, many players in the community need to apologize too, not just REO. Who is honestly that gullible to believe that armor attacks are the number one issue in Mortal Kombat X when offensive options remain very powerful?

 

[God Confirm]

Armor is even more defensive in design then it was last patch, with the addition of double armor, and hitbox / start-up / safety improvements on many characters. Sorry that you can't convert them into a third of your opponent's life bar any more, but that's not defensive play - that just turned your armor into an aspect of offense, literally allowing you to use negative frames to open your opponent up into full combo. The removal of that WAS a nerf to many characters offense.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Some jump attacks became very annoying to deal with.

IMO, NRS needs to nerf jumps a bit more, reducing active frames from 13 to 8 could definitely nerf a lot of annoying jump ins.

Also, everyone should have a triborg like backdash, the backdash aspect in this game is as m2dave says abysmal for mostly anyone who isn't kano, sub-zero, triborg and maybe shinnok.

 

[Rude]

Some jump attacks became very annoying to deal with.

IMO, NRS needs to nerf jumps a bit more, reducing active frames from 13 to 8 could definitely nerf a lot of annoying jump ins.

Also, everyone should have a triborg like backdash, the backdash aspect in this game is as m2dave says abysmal for mostly anyone who isn't kano, sub-zero, triborg and maybe shinnok.

Quan Chi. ;-)

 

[tatterbug4]

I agree and disagree. But if I had to answer yes or no ill pick no.
Some match ups are definitely more offensive. But I can't say the game is more offensive with zoning being good for once. I also feel like I can anti air with normals way better now. Also pressure can't really be looped over and over. And a lot of pressure got nerfed in general

 

[TheGangstaFace]

1. I definitely don't agree with this game being more offensive. The frame advantages and overheads as mentioned before were HEAVILY toned down. As long as you react to these like 22f overheads (I do believe some characters need theirs nerfed still though such as Sub or Raiden) and block until it's your turn to move, you can get out of pressure. Previously there was so much BS guaranteed pressure with everything being +1000

2. I do agree though that this game still favors offense a little more. My suggestion to this is that gaps have more recovery OR block breakers become 1 bar like the community has been wanting forEVER now. Also Reo, as I'm sure you know, made a good suggestion that you should at least gain a little bar for blocking.

3. If you're saying "bring armored launchers back" I wouldn't consider that the answer. Even now armor moves are still a cancer in the neutral. Start of the match Ermac still has you pissing yourself trying not to get hit immediately so he already controls your behavior from the start.

4. Tremor relying on an armored launcher. Lol. Never heard a Tremor in my life say that one

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

Yes i am offended by the new mkx patch. Trying to change the way the entire game is played this late into the games lifespan should have been more thorough and thought out than it is. There are soo many inconsistencies it boggles the mind to wonder how it was approved to be released.
Just to name a few:-

1. Some characters having double armour on a special that hits mid and giving others double armour on specials that hit high.
2. Giving some grapple characters double armour on command grabs and other's left with 1 hit of armour on their command grabs.
3. Giving some characters 2 hits of armour on a special they can spend 2 bars to launch yet leaving some characters with a similar move with only 1 hit of slow armour that is easily breakable.

I do agree that the 50/50 aspect and armour should have been adjusted but i don't agree in completely rewarding characters with a certain play style say 'zoning' and nerfing characters with other play-styles say cancel pressure.
Yes something had to be done about characters like johnny but perhaps making the stamina recovery on those characters after doing a cancel would have been a better way to address it rather than- nerfing how plus the cancels were and then making the cancels consume more stamina.

Instead of balancing the game to a point where all variations were viable we are at a point where 1 or 2 variations out shine the third considerably.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

I also think that something also needs to be said about some people in this community who make a lot of noise about certain things they 'personally' believe needs to change because of their 'personal' views on how a game should be or be played (cough reo). Who may have had some influence to the resent patch. To those people - this game wasn't made just for you.

Because these people are well known and have a big following their voices overshadow everyone else's, and even though a lot of what they may say makes sense and is sensible not everything is.

 

[Karma]

Every player i fight 95% of the time online it's a mix up character besides kotal and technically kitana, not a character that has mids and lows only that require a better skill like kano cybernetic. Playing as top tier makes me want to play a character i want to have fun, not a character you can win every match, no matter how the MU.

 

[Tweedy]

Why do people need to apologize, because 3 people agree?

Kitana and Kenshi have stupid armor. I think Kenshi's is fine because of his toolset overall, but we gotta stop pretending that armor is this defensive tool. People used it offensively, as much as they used it defensively. Also, people complain about specials after pokes making the game more random. You know what makes the game more random than that? Armor that launches in the neutral, or after negative strings. It's something that we've became so used to, that is ebola.

Last week I watched Blake and Scar go down to the wire, using shimmies, trip guards, and some good ole mix. That's the game that I want to be playing. Fuck old Demo and Summoner. Jason's super oppressive, so is Sub Zero, but i'm not going to Popeyes and drowning myself in buffalo sauce after losing to them, like I did with Scar's Demo. You didn't even get to play the damn game if that bitch hit you one time.

I just hate Demo man. I said forever that if they deleted Alien from the game and took Demo with him, i'd be happy. She's still good, but at least you can play now after getting hit. That alone made the game better, for me.

 

[Tweedy]

I don't know how many of you went to a tournament and had to play Scar, in loser's nonetheless.

I could have beaten anyone on that day, but Demo just doesn't let you play if she hits you once. I almost cried and then went to popeyes and ordered spicy chicken with buffalo sauce. Almost died.

Demo kills, people.

 

[Tweedy]

I might not be nearly as good without Alien.

But at least I know, that once I get back up there, the worst i'll have to face, is maybe a Jason, Sub Zero, Crystalline, HQT, etc, in terms of offense. They aren't shit, in comparison to old Quan and Demo.

RZA is on Exile and I've played Dave extensively. I know about all of the new Crystalline strategies. Trust me, THEY ARENT SHIT, in comparison to old Demo. You don't understand if you think otherwise.

 

[Tweedy]

When the patch hit, to cope, I played out a heroic movie in my head, where Alien died, because someone had to die to destroy Demo.

Rest well, Lord Alien. I'll find you.

 

[smokey]

I am of the thought that offense is a damn lot tamer than it has been in the past. People actually saying their characters need an armoured launcher to compete is a good laugh, even some of the higher tier characters have dealt with having single hit unsafe armour moves that do 14% and dont launch for the whole games life and still managed to stay relevant. Some of the buffs and nerfs given to specific characters could have definitely been "fairer", but were in a good spot now where you can actually control the neutral, and you dont get hit for 40% when you try stagger a string or take your turn.

Also props to @Tweedy quadruple posting and didnt mention spectral once.

 

[ismael4790]

I would like to see what 50/50 players would have said if their 50/50 mixups had been completely removed from their characters. Not toned down. Completely removed.

Because that's what happened with armor launchers, even from characters that never had any kind of mixups and were low tier.

Armored launchers should have got another treatment, toned down (damage/ cost of bars/ situations where you can use them/ adding stamina cost...imagination please), instead of simply removing them. That has been a simplistic, generic and stupid decision.

 

[Eddy Wang]

This thread is making me laugh so much.

 

[Tweedy]

My 4th post with the walking dead reference should have the most likes.

Disappointed.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

If @ismael4790 support your cause in MKX it means you're wrong

 

[ismael4790]

If @ismael4790 support your cause in MKX it means you're wrong

 

[Lokheit]

IMO offense got better for the ones that didn't have such an amazing offense due to armorable gaps, but some of the best offenses were nerfed and RC pressure got a huge hit across the board so I'd say there are more characters with good offense but the dumb offense of pre-patch got toned down so quantity increased buy quality decreased.

I'm also seeing a lot more zoning since the patch because of the stamina nerfs and specific character buffs so you can see the range of playstyles is bigger now.

I think some characters needed their armor launchers because they were built around them, but I also think that they could be buffed in the future in ways that remove the need of armor to be succesful.

Maybe some moves could have armor only as a reversal, or others could have "air crush/air invincibility" properties to be used as anti-airs (rising karma comes to mind).

I think the biggest problem is still jump punches, so if a mechanic to address them was introduced offense would be toned down. For example if every uppercut had air invincibility, jump attacks would only be used on reaction to projectiles or good neutral reads, which is how IMO they should work, and some of the characters that suffered so much from losing their armor wouldn't be free to be jumped on anymore. Just a random idea.

 

[smokey]

Untechable throws.

 

[ismael4790]

Untechable throws.

 

[Eddy Wang]

for christ sake, just add each other into the ignore list.