If everything has a "soul"....

[TKB]

No, because it's impossible to prove a negative. You're right, I can't definitively prove he did not see a ghost, the same way you can't prove that I didn't sleep with Emma Watson last night. That doesn't mean that anyone should ever believe that I did until someone proves I didn't. It is a fact that I am lying, until I can provide proof that I did. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim that something IS true, not on someone who is saying it isn't.

People have no difficulty in accepting that it is a fact that unicorns and dragons do not exist, based on the fact that there is no evidence for their existence, yet this isn't reason enough to accept that ghosts do not exist? Why does stating that ghosts do not exist require more proof than stating that dragons don't? It shouldn't. However, they do both require the same level of proof in stating that they do exist. There is no proof of dragons, so people accept it is a fact that they do not exist. Why does the non-existent proof of ghosts not lead to the same conclusion?

So every single piece of evidence ever provided including video, pictures, MILLIONS of first hand accounts and testimony is basically just being completely ignored in this conversation huh? I know plenty of it is bogus, and along with that a large portion of it simply cannot be explained away.

Once again, you are welcome to your opinion. I appreciate that we can think for ourselves and believe what we want. But please, don't try to tell me what I have or have not seen. I even said in my last post "what we call ghosts" because we don't know what it is. But speaking of facts, I know for a FACT I have seen and experienced something first hand.

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

I'm staying out of this debate for now, but as someone who was into demonology for quite some time, there are a lot of morons out there. Not everyone in the field is an Ed an Lorraine Warren (of Amityville Horror fame). There is a 'science' to the whole field of paranormal study that has been polluted by crazies and money grubbing theifs

 

[JLG]

No, because it's impossible to prove a negative.
...
The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim that something IS true, not on someone who is saying it isn't.

Sorry, I believe that is not correct. Half correct, maybe?

Here are three definitions:

- The duty of proving a disputed assertion or charge [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/burden of proof]
- The philosophical burden of proof or onus (probandi) is the obligation on a party in an epistemic dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof]
- The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the imperative on a party in a trial to produce the evidence that will shift the conclusion away from the default position to one's own position. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof]

Regarding negatives, here is an excerpt from that philosophic burden of proof link above:

When the assertion to prove is a negative claim, the burden takes the form of a negative proof, proof of impossibility, or mere evidence of absence. If this negative assertion is in response to a claim made by another party in a debate, asserting the falsehood of the positive claim shifts the burden of proof from the party making the first claim to the one asserting its falsehood, as the position "I do not believe that X is true" is different from the explicit denial "I believe that X is false".

 

[SneakyTortoise]

When the assertion to prove is a negative claim, the burden takes the form of a negative proof, proof of impossibility, or mere evidence of absence. If this negative assertion is in response to a claim made by another party in a debate, asserting the falsehood of the positive claim shifts the burden of proof from the party making the first claim to the one asserting its falsehood, as the position "I do not believe that X is true" is different from the explicit denial "I believe that X is false".

Exactly here. My proof is the evidence of absence. Extraordinary claims require overwhelming evidence. If they were able to provide any evidence then yes, the burden would then be upon me to disprove it, but as long as that is not the case then it is not up to me to provide any evidence at all.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

So every single piece of evidence ever provided including video, pictures, MILLIONS of first hand accounts and testimony is basically just being completely ignored in this conversation huh? I know plenty of it is bogus, and along with that a large portion of it simply cannot be explained away.

Once again, you are welcome to your opinion. I appreciate that we can think for ourselves and believe what we want. But please, don't try to tell me what I have or have not seen. I even said in my last post "what we call ghosts" because we don't know what it is. But speaking of facts, I know for a FACT I have seen and experienced something first hand.

Yes. Every anecdote is meaningless. And there has never been any video or photo that has provided evidence of ghosts.

And to be honest, no you don't know what you saw. I'm going to steal a line from academic clinical neurologist at Yale University School of Medicine, Dr. Novella:
"You have a distorted and constructed memory of a distorted and constructed perception, both of which are subservient to whatever narrative your brain is operating under".

I'll provide a link to the article he wrote on this sort of topic which you can read if you like.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/sleep-and-false-memory/

 

[TKB]

Yes. Every anecdote is meaningless. And there has never been any video or photo that has provided evidence of ghosts.

And to be honest, no you don't know what you saw. I'm going to steal a line from academic clinical neurologist at Yale University School of Medicine, Dr. Novella:
"You have a distorted and constructed memory of a distorted and constructed perception, both of which are subservient to whatever narrative your brain is operating under".

I'll provide a link to the article he wrote on this sort of topic which you can read if you like.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/sleep-and-false-memory/

I even stated in my previous post that I don't know what it is I've seen. Because we don't know what "ghosts" really are. Just another word we use to describe that which we do not understand, much like the word "God".

Pictures and video are not anecdotal. There is plenty of it out there that has withstood scientific scrutiny and still has not been explained.

Now my personal experiences, you can say are anecdotal if you'd like. I have no proof to show so that's fair. But literally millions of eye witness accounts?

I assume you feel the same about UFOs; swamp gas, weather balloons, people just imagining these things? Even though there are literally hundreds of pictures, videos and millions of eye witness accounts. Not to mention many eye witnesses being military, Air Force pilots, police officers, etc. upstanding citizens with everything to lose for being honest about their experiences.

Edit: by the way, these conversations are interesting to me and I enjoy having them; thanks for engaging me like an adult. It's an interesting subject.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

I even stated in my previous post that I don't know what it is I've seen. Because we don't know what "ghosts" really are. Just another word we use to describe that which we do not understand, much like the word "God".

Pictures and video are not anecdotal. There is plenty of it out there that has withstood scientific scrutiny and still has not been explained.

Now my personal experiences, you can say are anecdotal if you'd like. I have no proof to show so that's fair. But literally millions of eye witness accounts?

I assume you feel the same about UFOs; swamp gas, weather balloons, people just imagining these things? Even though there are literally hundreds of pictures, videos and millions of eye witness accounts. Not to mention many eye witnesses being military, Air Force pilots, police officers, etc. upstanding citizens with everything to lose for being honest about their experiences.

Edit: by the way, these conversations are interesting to me and I enjoy having them; thanks for engaging me like an adult. It's an interesting subject.

So, if you don't know what you saw, why do you assume it was supernatural?

I would be very interested to see these photos and videos you are referring to.

And yes to UFO's if by that you are assuming that alien aircraft have been seen by people and that alien abductions have occurred etc. That is all bull. If aliens had made any sort of contact with earth then we would certainly know about it.

 

[orochiDragon]

So, if you don't know what you saw, why do you assume it was supernatural?

I would be very interested to see these photos and videos you are referring to.

And yes to UFO's if by that you are assuming that alien aircraft have been seen by people and that alien abductions have occurred etc. That is all bull. If aliens had made any sort of contact with earth then we would certainly know about it.

How exactly would we all "know about it"? If everyone on earth saw the same phenomenon at the same time ( hypothetically), would'nt we still come to different conclusions? There are many unexplainable pics and videos. I feel that even if they were all real, we would still be having this discussion. "Unexplainable" of coarse, does not mean the phenomenon is exactly what anyone says it is.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

How exactly would we all "know about it"? If everyone on earth saw the same phenomenon at the same time ( hypothetically), would'nt we still come to different conclusions? There are many unexplainable pics and videos. I feel that even if they were all real, we would still be having this discussion. "Unexplainable" of coarse, does not mean the phenomenon is exactly what anyone says it is.

Because if aliens did visit earth they would make a much bigger impact than fleetingly travelling across our atmosphere in sight of people with 30 year old cameras and abducting hillbillies.

 

[TKB]

So, if you don't know what you saw, why do you assume it was supernatural?

I would be very interested to see these photos and videos you are referring to.

And yes to UFO's if by that you are assuming that alien aircraft have been seen by people and that alien abductions have occurred etc. That is all bull. If aliens had made any sort of contact with earth then we would certainly know about it.

When I say I don't know what I saw, I mean I don't know what "ghosts" are. I saw something, but I simply cannot truly and accurately explain what exactly it is or was. I can tell you with certainty that at least two of my experiences cannot be explained by me imagining it.

I have literally watched a container lift up off of a counter and fly across the room by itself; there was nobody else around, I was home alone and I WATCHED this happen right in front of me. My roommate has had a very similar experience in the same home. What is the scientific explanation for that? Nobody was pranking me and I'm pretty sure I don't have telekinetic powers(despite what my handle is )

I'm definitely not implying aliens. I'm simply making a comparison between these two subjects, that's all.

 

[TKB]

Because if aliens did visit earth they would make a much bigger impact than fleetingly travelling across our atmosphere in sight of people with 30 year old cameras and abducting hillbillies.

Unless they did not want their presence known. If these beings have mastered space travel, you really think they wouldn't be able to hide their own existence from us? Again, not trying to derail or say that aliens exist. Just saying.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Humans are so self-centered, lol.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Unless they did not want their presence known. If these beings have mastered space travel, you really think they wouldn't be able to hide their own existence from us? Again, not trying to derail or say that aliens exist. Just saying.

I don't believe that they would be able to avoid getting seen by state of the art equipment developed by governments, private companies and the military, yet get caught out by $2 cameras.
Also, I think they would be able to evaluate the situation and realise that they would have nothing to be scared of, by their presence being known by us, and that they would invade us and take every resource they wanted from us with ease.

 

[TKB]

I don't believe that they would be able to avoid getting seen by state of the art equipment developed by governments, private companies and the military, yet get caught out by $2 cameras.
Also, I think they would be able to evaluate the situation and realise that they would have nothing to be scared of, by their presence being known by us, and that they would invade us and take every resource they wanted from us with ease.

You're right; if we've spotted them, then Ofcourse the governments have spotted them as well. Many governments around the globe have openly admitted that they know of the presence of whatever they are.

I also agree that they definitely would have nothing to be afraid of, we would be parasites in comparison lol. If they do exist and our governments know, they hide their presence to preserve our society and to avoid mass panic.

 

[TaffyMeat]

Midgets don't have souls, that's why they're short.

 

[DarkSlayerSmith]

That's racist.

Also racist question - why do like all "true" ghost stories involve white people? Why don't black people get haunted?

because we die first in "true" ghost stories,like @imblackjames said..."we GTFO",we black ppl can outrun a ghost, so they choose white ppl because they are the easy prey.

 

[trustinme]

being dragged under my bed and sexually assaulted by the demon from paranormal activity certainly wasn't one of the most enjoyable experiences of my life.

 

[DarkSlayerSmith]

I´m religious so let me share some of my knowledge with you guys...Acording to the bible humanity is considered "living souls",untill we die the "breath of life"(our souls) returns to God.but it would be fool not to consider the existence of "Ghosts",since the bible itself tell the story when king Saul after killing a prophet he consulted a Witch wo knew necromancy and told her to bring him back(temporarily from the dead).

FYI:nobody wants to bring back the soul of a Dinossaur even if they could...it would be Jurassic Park-Rapture Edition!

 

[TaffyMeat]

People are trying to argue non corporal vs physical proof. Lol this thread.