FL Rushdown
Noob
Id rather just go back to no variations.
Ok this is the last post I'll put in this thread, I'll try to finish my thoughts for you.
And I already addressed all of that in previous posts. If you think my points were nonsensical you should be able to tell me why, but so far all you've done is ignore them and continue to state the same thing ad nauseam.
I understand his point but not yours he said it wouldn't help a lot of characters and even gave the list of those it would help can you give 5 other characters who would benefit from it?
Here's a quote where I explain how it helps pretty much all characters in the game after he asked me a similar question. - "Tournament matches are character and variation locked. If two players pick characters that are a 5-5 match up with each other, then the losing player now has the option to counter pick the winning player. So now the player who won the first match gets counter picked and loses the first round, but now that same player who lost the first round can spend a bar to reverse the counter pick or at least switch to a variation that goes 5-5 again with their opponent's character. It would be a great option for any character in the game, not just Quan. It would not make Quan Chi much better, if at all. The Quan Chi player would have to lose an entire round in order to counter pick, so if the other player lost the second round due to that counter pick, then they now have the option to counter pick the Quan player. If the non-Quan Chi player wins then the match is over and the Quan player has no option to counter pick again, so the player who wins the first round always has the advantage. Quan Chi needs to be nerfed anyway. Whether or not you can switch variations between rounds doesn't change that fact."
How do you take away a bar from someone before the match starts? Expecting them to use a meter after they switch, and then to start the match from there is just impossible to do while keeping it fair. They would have to use a meter move before anyone hits anyone. That makes the starting point of the round less fair, as there would be no real official starting point. You're basically asking NRS to program a tournament-specific type of round starting loophole that they just won't do. They don't even have a tournament mode where controllers that try to connect mid-match don't stop the game. There have been a lot of rounds ruined by having no tournament mode.
Again it doesn t counter what he said If I m Tempest lao and my opponent is crystalline tremor and beat me why should I spend a bar to change variation when I m using my best one that cover all my match ups ? It s the same with kobu Tanya and a lot of characters.
You wouldn't in that match up. Tempest Lao is a different story. Tempest is a variation. I never said all variations would be able to benefit from it, but most characters should have at least one variation where they can be put into a losing match up via a counter pick. So if you decided to pick Hat Trick Lao, won, and then got counter picked by a Crystalline Tremor, you could spend a bar of meter to switch to Tempest Lao if you lose a round.
Is point is that most characters don t have a second variation them can use to counter pick
They don't need to be able to counter pick other characters as long as they're able to save themselves from being counter picked, or vice versa. If someone picks HQT Predator on Sub Zero, switch to Cryomancer or Unbreakable once it becomes viable. Or if you're using Bone Shaper Shinnok and your opponent picks Quan Chi, you can switch to Imposter for the vortex. And even if they can't do any of those things, that would just mean they might need to be buffed or changed to compensate. The bottom line is that you have to spend a bar of meter and you have to LOSE a round in order to use the feature. Dankster understands this but still thinks it would somehow make Quan Chi a lot better than he already is, which makes no sense whatsoever. The point is not being able to counter pick people, but having a counter for being counter picked. It would not change the balance of the game practically at all, it's just an extra option that a player can use if he prefers to.
You know the animations the characters do when a round ends? During that time, imagine an interface coming up showing your character's variations like they do at the character select screen with the circles and the names under them. You'd have a 3-5 second time window to pick one of them. If you pick a different variation than the one you're using you instantly lose a bar of meter and your character switches to that variation. It would not be tournament specific, it would be in the entire game as a mechanic.
OK I think I get it better but doesn t it make it unfair for the person who lost a game and switched character
exactly dumb the variation system and work on balancing and bigger roster (there is no need to be an innovation in every aspect of the game)
It really would benefit Quan more than anyone else, and that's a bad thing. Kick his ass round one, leave him in the corner - he can swap to Warlock and now armour out. Maybe that's what you intend for the feature. But maybe that's more a problem with Quan, and I know you said its for future games, but it sort of highlights why it would be a bad mechanic from design perspective
If the Quan player has to lose a round in order to switch to Warlock then I do not see how that matters. So what if he has armor now? He's no longer in the Summoner variation and he essentially just lost a round. Now he's spent a bar to go to a worse variation. If the Summoner player could win the round and switch to Warlock still, that would be ridiculous, but since it's essential that he loses in order for him to switch, it makes no difference. It's the equivalent of somebody picking Warlock to begin with and losing the round while ending up in the corner. It's the exact same result except you end up with one less bar of meter in a variation that's more dependent on it than the other 2. The only way it would give the Quan player an advantage after losing is if Warlock was a counter pick to whatever character they were using, but if that's the case then the opponent can simply counter pick them back if they lose a round. Besides, Warlock would not do any better in most match ups than Summoner would.
Put me in the corner against anyone at the end of the round as Summoner, and I guarantee you I'm switching to Warlock. Maybe it's not such a bad thing tho as you said, you're already down a round. However after 1/1 rounds I think it should revert back to the original variation without choice, seems fairer
I typed that in the context of the sentence right before it. I was saying it would only be advantageous if Warlock was a counter pick, but then I followed that up by saying that would be unlikely since Warlock wouldn't usually be better in a match up than Summoner would. I agree that it would be a good idea to switch to Warlock if you were in the corner.
I mean if the idea is to break player momentum, after you lose first round, win second round with a variation swap, it's 1/1, and I think now that it's even in score AND you have position from winning your last round, that you should revert back. What do you think of it?
Ok I see now. The idea isn't necessarily to break player momentum, it's mainly to balance counter picks after a lost match. If a player wins a match and gets counter picked due to being character and variation locked, then he can have the option to make the match up more even or even in his favor at the expense of a bar. You wouldn't always do it of course. There would be a lot of variables to help both players determine whether or not they should spend the bar to switch after a lost round. But if they were to both go back to their initial variations after being tied 1 to 1 in a match, I think it would defeat the purpose of the mechanic.
