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Breakthrough Deathstroke's actual block advantage

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
As far as I can tell, his j3 is around +10 or better on block. If you set the ai to block and to jump, you can see that DS is able to jump after a blocked j3 ages before his opponent. I was even able to throw the ai before they could jump after a blocked j3. Though the height of the j3 does affect the recovery, it seems like it never gets worse than +6 to +8. It's definitely not the -3 it says in the in-game frame data.
 
As far as I can tell, his j3 is around +10 or better on block. If you set the ai to block and to jump, you can see that DS is able to jump after a blocked j3 ages before his opponent. I was even able to throw the ai before they could jump after a blocked j3. Though the height of the j3 does affect the recovery, it seems like it never gets worse than +6 to +8. It's definitely not the -3 it says in the in-game frame data.
I don't even know how to list jumping attacks. The recovery frames get canceled when you land. But if you do them on your way up it's it can be worse that -3. God knows where they got the block advantage numbers though. I think Lex's says +30 or some crazy shit.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Goddamn. According to the game, a move with a startup of 6 hits on the 7th frame. So you'd need something with a startup of 5 to punish 32.I went with startup of 6 punishes -6. I think my way makes more sense but I'll update everything to go with the game (everything's off by 1). Nothing changes with how I described it before though.
Awesome, thanks for the useful update. Btw, if you could, can you check my "Knowing Your Arsenal" thread and make sure I have the punishment frames right in there too?

As far as I can tell, his j3 is around +10 or better on block. If you set the ai to block and to jump, you can see that DS is able to jump after a blocked j3 ages before his opponent. I was even able to throw the ai before they could jump after a blocked j3. Though the height of the j3 does affect the recovery, it seems like it never gets worse than +6 to +8. It's definitely not the -3 it says in the in-game frame data.
If you jump and immediately attack and hit them on the way up like ASAP it might be more vulnerable... but who would do that anyways?
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Premium Supporter
Goddamn. According to the game, a move with a startup of 6 hits on the 7th frame. So you'd need something with a startup of 5 to punish 32.I went with startup of 6 punishes -6. I think my way makes more sense but I'll update everything to go with the game (everything's off by 1). Nothing changes with how I described it before though.

Wow, that means a j3 can be followed with b1u2 and can only be interrupted by a move with a startup of around 4 frames, and would have to be blocked high then low, would lead to around 30% damage on hit, and would be totally safe on block.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Wow, that means a j3 can be followed with b1u2 and can only be interrupted by a move with a startup of around 4 frames, and would have to be blocked high then low, would lead to around 30% damage on hit, and would be totally safe on block.
Only problem there is if they eat the Ji3, they're not going to take much more than a Ji3, B1. If you could react quickly enough to the hit confirm, I guess you could convert that into a 323 combo though.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Premium Supporter
Only problem there is if they eat the Ji3, they're not going to take much more than a Ji3, B1. If you could react quickly enough to the hit confirm, I guess you could convert that into a 323 combo though.
J3 is pretty easy to hitconfirm. It won't be a free conversion, but should be easy with practice.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
123 is definitely not 0 on block, superman punished me with his super after he blocked it.
Superman's super is the fastest thing in the game.
But yes, 123 is definitely negative on block. Flash's flying uppercut nails it.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
opps, was looking at 132, not 123.
132 is relatively safe on block. When considering safety, I like to look at it as "safe moves" and "moves that are safe from Superman's super."
Supermans super is the only thing you have to worry about punishing 132, so you can pretty much call it safe.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
Just as an example, you'd need a move with a startup of 19 to punish Sword Flip.
Hmm... I come from sf4 and this feels strange to me.

In sf4
Moves with start up equal to the recovery of a move on block makes a 1 frame punish
i.e. if the start up matches the recovery, it can punish.

example:
something that is -5 can be punished by reversals that come out in 5 frames....

this is due to the fact that SF4 writes its frame data in a way as to make the final start up frame the same as the first active frame!
can we confirm that NRS doesn't do this practice with their frame data?
 
Hmm... I come from sf4 and this feels strange to me.

In sf4
Moves with start up equal to the recovery of a move on block makes a 1 frame punish
i.e. if the start up matches the recovery, it can punish.

example:
something that is -5 can be punished by reversals that come out in 5 frames....

this is due to the fact that SF4 writes its frame data in a way as to make the final start up frame the same as the first active frame!
can we confirm that NRS doesn't do this practice with their frame data?
That's what I thought too and I had all the frames listed as 1 less than what they are now. But then Milkman360 brought up that Flash's 6f uppercut can't punish anything that's -6. I tested it with a few things and it seems to hold true. A good example is Doomsday's 11 (-14) since it doesn't push you back on block. Deathstroke's 3 (14f) can't punish it but his b2 (13f) can. But ofc it's still manual testing.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
That's what I thought too and I had all the frames listed as 1 less than what they are now. But then Milkman360 brought up that Flash's 6f uppercut can't punish anything that's -6. I tested it with a few things and it seems to hold true. A good example is Doomsday's 11 (-14) since it doesn't push you back on block. Deathstroke's 3 (14f) can't punish it but his b2 (13f) can. But ofc it's still manual testing.
Fascinating
 

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
so in deathstroke mirror , blocked low shot from fullscreen I should be able to punish with my own low shot ?
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
today I played ds mirror with friend and when I blocked his low shot ( he spammed it ) and tried to punish it with my own I got shot again .... how its possible ?
Are you doing a perfect reversal? The game will tell you if you are. Buffer the low shots as you bite the bullets.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Are you doing a perfect reversal? The game will tell you if you are. Buffer the low shots as you bite the bullets.
I think a trade happens every time because Low Shots are not -12 from full screen away. The frame data of this thread only applies to blocked point blank range Low Shots.