Breakthrough - A-List [Beta Closed] Lets talk about A-list as is during Beta

[The Dragon Chief]

113 / 1, f2 is NOT a 50-50. Not even close. You can actually punish anyone trying to do 1, f2 by doing any fast string that leads to a combo after you block 1.

And no, he can't pressure you for days because even if he does a blockstring for some chip after ex forceballs you are not forced to block anything...there are tons of options.

I never said it was a true 50/50 but it is an unreactable (or at least really hard) overhead and a low that both lead into full combos. There is a spot to poke out after S1 but rarely does a Johnny Cage do just a S1 so it can't be guessed. If you do try to guess it he has 5 options to beat it. Also, don't just act like being plus on block means nothing for Johnny. You do have options but they are primarily defensive and don't add much risk to Johnny except for Armored Launchers.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

You mean this?

Some friends of mine reported that this also happens against Sub-Zero. Might be just a bug, needs more testing.

iirc, this has always been an issue. Similar to how his standing 1 will whiff on certain crouch-blocking hurtboxes, or when the 4 of his 114 would whiff on crouching characters before they fixed it. It's annoying, but that's just part of the JC struggle.

Spoiler

#BuffA-list

 

[God Confirm]

Johnny getting zoned out is hilarious. He has every tool.

Fireball is already a top projectile and shadow kick gets you a full screen in.

To anyone complaining...Level up dudes.

Where was ANYONE complaining about anything JC related? The only complaints where about Sub and Jax's cross-ups, and as a Sub/Jax player even I will admit they are kinda BS. Telling people to level up for just DISCUSSING the game and the possible effect it will have on the character in a civilized manner, just makes you seem salty as hell about JC. The fact that your post has like 14 people who liked it is exactly why this community is such nonsense. Stop trying to destroy competitive discussion, just because you are full of salt. I'm not even a JC player, I hate seeing shit like this







Back on track, JC was the character I felt would be impacted the most by the stamina changes to breaking - but I still thought it probably wouldn't be TOO game changing for him. So can I get an HONEST opinion from some JC players of the beta, when someone breaks how badly does it change up the next 10 seconds or so of gameplay?

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

His d4 is fine and more like other d4. I don't think he has other changes

His D4 still goes under Kano's B1. Johnny will always be a problem.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Back on track, JC was the character I felt would be impacted the most by the stamina changes to breaking - but I still thought it probably wouldn't be TOO game changing for him. So can I get an HONEST opinion from some JC players of the beta, when someone breaks how badly does it change up the next 10 seconds or so of gameplay?

Honestly? I personally haven't had any major problems getting 'outzoned' as Johnny after a breaker. It gets iffy when you're close to death, but that's just where the cards fall sometimes. His forceballs do decent enough damage for a trade, and most other characters' projectiles can be neutral ducked or jumped over, so playing the full screen game for a bit isn't that bad. If I have meter, I just mess around at the full-screen until my stamina comes back, EX-Shadow Kick, and hello, hello, we're back in the game.

And for those who keep going on about how zoning characters like Kitana and Kenshi can easily build meter for another break by the time you get back in... Yeah, if they're getting two whole bars back before you get back in, that's more of a 'you' problem, quite frankly.

All that being said, if I get broken in the corner and I'm meterless? Yeah, that just gives me emotional cancer every time. Anything else you're curious about?

 

[The Dragon Chief]

His D4 still goes under Kano's B1. Johnny will always be a problem.

It doesn't duck B3.

 

[omooba]

If this is the case him having b3 as a mid is enogh, he shouldn't have f2 as a mid. I think it isn't though.

f3 is an overhead why would anyone want it to be a mid lol what????

 

[Airvidal]

f3 is an overhead why would anyone want it to be a mid lol what????

I guess this is what happens when I talk about Lao in a Johnny Cage thread lol

 

[Somea2V]

Exactly. This is a top 5 character in the entire game. Execution heavy but they are starting to emerge in the tournament scene as I expect dragon fires to do in the next year.

Do u guys know when mmh won his first major? Ya... Well into the second year of the game. Ended up being number 1

Did... you actually just compare Johnny Cage to Martian Manhunter?

 

[omooba]

Did... you actually just compare Johnny Cage to Martian Manhunter?

yeah i choked a little when i read that too

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

It doesn't duck B3.

What? Kano's B3 (Low Starter) is much slower and riskier to just throw out. Are we talking about the same character? Johnny seems good where he's at. Just picked him up during the beta and I enjoy getting resets every time I touch my opponent. D4 allows me to take a couple of hours to decide what I want to do next as far as pressure ideas lol.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Anyone smart can punish you for trying to EX shadowkick from full screen, and many times it doesn't even get you in, they can still retreat and keep spacing you out. And trying to win a zoning war with forceballs against certain characters... You will lose. I'm not saying Johnny is now hopeless against zoning now, but he will have to work harder to get in and start his pressure, especially with breakers leaving him without stamina, his most vital resource.

Saying he gets zoned out easily is silly when he has a full screen, armored, and safe advancing special. Yea it's punishable but that's not the point I was making. Point is he doesn't get zoned out.

IMO Mileena zones Cage out pretty good

Characters with low profiling specials like Kang and Mileena do a great job. Mileena ball roll and teleport make her especially dangerous. I know your in a mission to prove that Mileena is good but she both zones and counter zones cage better than just about anybody. How about the rest of the cast? The projectile is not even for zoning but it is to allow him the option to get in. For that purpose, his projectile is perfect and still way above average in MKX.

Depends on which variation you are talking, because SD has a hell of a time against Kang for his zoning as his low fireball low profiles his projectile and SK

Since the thread title says A list I just went with it.

Exactly. This is a top 5 character in the entire game. Execution heavy but they are starting to emerge in the tournament scene as I expect dragon fires to do in the next year.

Do u guys know when mmh won his first major? Ya... Well into the second year of the game. Ended up being number 1

I'm not saying top 5 but I'm not saying not top 5. Time will tell.

Where was ANYONE complaining about anything JC related? The only complaints where about Sub and Jax's cross-ups, and as a Sub/Jax player even I will admit they are kinda BS. Telling people to level up for just DISCUSSING the game and the possible effect it will have on the character in a civilized manner, just makes you seem salty as hell about JC. The fact that your post has like 14 people who liked it is exactly why this community is such nonsense. Stop trying to destroy competitive discussion, just because you are full of salt. I'm not even a JC player, I hate seeing shit like this

There were literally two separate people saying that:
1) he is easily zoned out
And
2) his d4 getting nerfed is a huge problem

 

[God Confirm]

Saying he gets zoned out easily is silly when he has a full screen, armored, and safe advancing special. Yea it's punishable

Is it punishable or is it safe?

but that's not the point I was making. Point is he doesn't get zoned out.

Then say that is your opinion, instead of accusing people of complaining when they are not, and telling everyone to level up when they are just discussing their character, not complaining, not asking for buffs or anything. You are one to talk as well lol.



You do this same shit all the time, just needlessly inflammatory and blatantly salty

 

[FoughtDragon01]

I do have to wonder if A-List will make it through this beta period completely unscathed, though. We still have 1-2 more updates, and it's already been shown that existing characters can still receive further changes (e.g. Liu Kang). Considering how much people were complaining about him before, and this apparent hate-boner for run cancel pressure, it wouldn't surprise me if NRS touched his SKRC frames, or at least some of his more well-used strings (e.g. the new gap in Scorpion's 124(?)).

Fingers crossed, I guess.

 

[Dizzy]

You mean this?

Some friends of mine reported that this also happens against Sub-Zero. Might be just a bug, needs more testing.

This actually can happen in the current, non-beta game. I've for sure had it happen against Jacqui and Dvorah. If it's happening more consistently it might be a new bug though so if you can figure out a way for it to happen consistently let me know.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Is it punishable or is it safe?


Then say that is your opinion, instead of accusing people of complaining when they are not, and telling everyone to level up when they are just discussing their character, not complaining, not asking for buffs or anything. You are one to talk as well lol.



You do this same shit all the time, just needlessly inflammatory and blatantly salty

Lol. You sound salty. It's only punishable by neutral crouching where by cage isn't getting zoned. I can't believe I just had to type that.

Literally two different people WERE complaining. Man...and I'm the problem.

 

[Somea2V]

Lol. You sound salty. It's only punishable by neutral crouching where by cage isn't getting zoned. I can't believe I just had to type that.

Literally two different people WERE complaining. Man...and I'm the problem.

You both sound salty. And while it may not technically be complaining, you sure as hell love to come in here and shove it up our collective asses sideways like we don't know anything about our character.

EX Shadow Kick is a powerful tool for getting in. And when it works correctly, we have to run up and attempt to start pressure off a knocked down opponent. It isn't a perfect counter zoning tool and it does require meter, a limited resource.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

You both sound salty. And while it may not technically be complaining, you sure as hell love to come in here and shove it up our collective asses sideways like we don't know anything about our character.

EX Shadow Kick is a powerful tool for getting in. And when it works correctly, we have to run up and attempt to start pressure off a knocked down opponent. It isn't a perfect counter zoning tool and it does require meter, a limited resource.

I agree with this...kind of. Nobody has "perfect" situations. All these tools in MKX are just different. Cages are really good is all I'm saying. My post was regarding those who think cage always get outzoned and those who think his d4 isn't good anymore. That's it.

If any of you don't think that, then I'm not talking to you. I'm done arguing my point.

 

[Somea2V]

I agree with this...kind of. Nobody has "perfect" situations. All these tools in MKX are just different. Cages are really good is all I'm saying. My post was regarding those who think cage always get outzoned and those who think his d4 isn't good anymore. That's it.

If any of you don't think that, then I'm not talking to you. I'm done arguing my point.

I think it's a vicious cycle. You want to point out tools we know are still good. They have weaknesses which folks like you never seem to acknowledge which we try to point out. We are aware of the strengths but are trying to paint the full picture, which is then viewed as downplaying and we get treated to the resounding opinion of people who don't play Cage talking up his alleged top 5 status and his strengths.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I think it's a vicious cycle. You want to point out tools we know are still good. They have weaknesses which folks like you never seem to acknowledge which we try to point out. We are aware of the strengths but are trying to paint the full picture, which is then viewed as downplaying and we get treated to the resounding opinion of people who don't play Cage talking up his alleged top 5 status and his strengths.

Who says I don't play cage? but again I wasn't referring to you unless your telling me he gets zoned out all match and his d4 being -6 means your turn is over.

 

[Somea2V]

Who says I don't play cage? but again I wasn't referring to you unless your telling me he gets zoned out all match and his d4 being -6 means your turn is over.

I've never heard of you playing Cage. I might be misinformed, which is my fault if so.

There are certainly characters which zone and counter zone better, but no one really keeps Cage suppressed. I have always maintained Cage can fight anyone on the cast. Not that he wins all match ups, not that he has a good answer to all opponents, but that he can fight anyone.

And D4 being -6... unless you run cancel it, your "turn" is over. At -6, his fastest answer is 14 frames that is easy as hell to get under. However, he can still get work done with it and it still basically serves every purpose it was used for.

None of the changes hurt Cage badly, but it is annoying that he's getting "nerfs" when there is far more ridiculous stuff and people come in here making MMH comparisons, which I'm sure you can understand how annoying that is.

 

[IrishMantis]

Saying he gets zoned out easily is silly when he has a full screen, armored, and safe advancing special. Yea it's punishable but that's not the point I was making. Point is he doesn't get zoned out.

Characters with low profiling specials like Kang and Mileena do a great job. Mileena ball roll and teleport make her especially dangerous. I know your in a mission to prove that Mileena is good but she both zones and counter zones cage better than just about anybody. How about the rest of the cast? The projectile is not even for zoning but it is to allow him the option to get in. For that purpose, his projectile is perfect and still way above average in MKX.

Since the thread title says A list I just went with it.

I'm not saying top 5 but I'm not saying not top 5. Time will tell.

There were literally two separate people saying that:
1) he is easily zoned out
And
2) his d4 getting nerfed is a huge problem

Actually good point, I can be stupid sometimes

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I've never heard of you playing Cage. I might be misinformed, which is my fault if so.

There are certainly characters which zone and counter zone better, but no one really keeps Cage suppressed. I have always maintained Cage can fight anyone on the cast. Not that he wins all match ups, not that he has a good answer to all opponents, but that he can fight anyone.

And D4 being -6... unless you run cancel it, your "turn" is over. At -6, his fastest answer is 14 frames that is easy as hell to get under. However, he can still get work done with it and it still basically serves every purpose it was used for.

None of the changes hurt Cage badly, but it is annoying that he's getting "nerfs" when there is far more ridiculous stuff and people come in here making MMH comparisons, which I'm sure you can understand how annoying that is.

I totally get it...btw...I don't plays list. Just SD Shhhhhhhh.

Jokes aside. I think a list is a top 10 possibly top 5 character. He was barely touched in beta also.

 

[IrishMantis]

I totally get it...btw...I don't plays list. Just SD Shhhhhhhh.

Jokes aside. I think a list is a top 10 possibly top 5 character. He was barely touched in beta also.

The Cage community is going to hate me for this

But I think if the following chars rumoured to get nerfed is true, Cage as in total is Top 5 I cannot see why not

 

[Somea2V]

I totally get it...btw...I don't plays list. Just SD Shhhhhhhh.

Jokes aside. I think a list is a top 10 possibly top 5 character. He was barely touched in beta also.

A-haaaa!!!

Eh, I would say top 10. And that's mainly just because we can't rank characters in a vacuum. There are certainly at least five characters who do what they do even better than what Cage does, if that makes sense. And you're right, I never meant to give the impression I didn't already know that.