General/Other - Swarm Queen Why the second D'Vorah nerf is unnecessary

Sage Leviathan said:

Abandoning the character over this is a little overboard, but far be it from me to judge I suppose.

Why not change variations?

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If you can't perform 1 frame links you have to drop the character since you can play her effectively. Swarm queen plays very differently to brood mother and venomous so you might as well pick up a new character. It's not like reptile where you can pretty much freely switch.

If I'm honest, it seems like a rather arbitrary nerf and I can understand why it would frustrate D'Vorah players. Cassie went through something similar when f34 was changed so I get that.

Pan1cMode said:

If you can't perform 1 frame links you have to drop the character since you can play her effectively. Swarm queen plays very differently to brood mother and venomous so you might as well pick up a new character. It's not like reptile where you can pretty much freely switch.

If I'm honest, it seems like a rather arbitrary nerf and I can understand why it would frustrate D'Vorah players. Cassie went through something similar when f34 was changed so I get that.

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I don't think most of us are switching, it's just annoying since I don't even think it was intentional.

AK Smarrgasm said:

I was told to put this here.

Thats like 9 back to back 1 frame links. I think youll live.

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1 frame link in sf is a lot easier than mkx though. First is that the 1 frame link in sf has more "rhythm" because the strings are closer together, mkx 1 frame link is a lot harder due to the non hitting animation spark to indicate the time and longer amount of time between the string

KIllaByte said:

That's with plinking, turning them into mashable 2 frame links.
MKX does not allow any mashing.

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It isn't mashing, they are still 2 frame links. In this case too many 2 frame links. As he said, you 'll live

Plus, it's one variation, get hyped for Venomous Yeyyy

Debbie doesn't even need wasp cancels to be good; her strings and tools are solid even in Brood Mother. With some other bogus pressure removed from the game, I think it's fair to nerf that capability on her. That said, I think D'vorah was way overhyped by Chicago; there's no way she was top 1, secret or otherwise.

I'm with you honey bee. It's pretty messed up. I sat in the lab, and grinded, and grinded to get that timing down. It felt like a proper replacement in my loss of Kabal. Now it's so strict that I can't use my Dvorah online. It's too strict. Not to mention I feel Venemous Dvorah got her full spray without meter burned slightly adjusted. Can't really prove it. But I feel it.

Second nerf was too much. Period. NRS will hopefully adjust accordingly. A SINGLE frame? Nice. Make a hard worker work harder eh? Well played NRS. Way to anger a fanbase.

a) " *insert name* could win with any character, they're that good! Bwaaaaaaaaaah"

or

b) "my top tier character that's been helping to carry my ass has been normalised and now I don't want to adapt"

If they need those 3 frames. Cant they just add it after cancel?

So you do your combo, you cancel normally, and you can start your next combo. But it would have delay of 3 frames (you can actually start inputing combos independant of that delay).

Makes sense? This would produce same result right? Only different it would be, that prople would not drop combos, because now we have clunky design.

Take$$$ said:

D'Vorah does have a 50/50, which can still be set up with d1. The optimal low off f112 was b1 wc bnb, which is safe.

f112 wc is still a great pressure tool being +11 or so. If they want to get out safely they have to armor, since you can still catch the backdash and no normal or regular special will beat anything you have.


I mean, I highly doubt they intended for b1 and 112 wcs to turn into 1 frame links, so if they get word of it yeah I'm confident they'll lower the amount of frames you have to hold the wasp grenade.

It's not a good change for balance because it doesn't make her any worse, better, or balance her in any way, it just makes her more difficult for no real reason.

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Wouldn't making a player more difficult be a vehicle for balance?

Hidan said:

It isn't mashing, they are still 2 frame links. In this case too many 2 frame links. As he said, you 'll live

Plus, it's one variation, get hyped for Venomous Yeyyy

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To nitpick, it isn't a "2 frame link" so much as it is 2 opportunities to hit a 1 frame link (with each opportunity spaced 1 frame apart). It is a small thing, but it does not widen the link window.

lmao a thread full of cry babies, did tom brady infect you honeybee and friends?
stop complaining ur character is still the best or top 3ish just now u have to actually work for it... think kabal... best character but only in the right hands

20+ 1 frame links Lvl up scrub noops

kinda 20x2 seeing as you cancel on the very first frame and input on the exact next one

Thierry Henry said:

a) " *insert name* could win with any character, they're that good! Bwaaaaaaaaaah"

or

b) "my top tier character that's been helping to carry my ass has been normalised and now I don't want to adapt"

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I don't think you understand what this thread is about.

Bizzle PB said:

Wouldn't making a player more difficult be a vehicle for balance?

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Balancing around difficulty is a bad idea imo because it (usually)doesn't solve the actual problem with a character. And like I said, I highly doubt that it was intentional since it's likely the side effect of a different change they were trying to make.

This specific change doesn't make her any worse or better. She still has the same exact 50/50 and 7 frame punish, and soon enough the players who have been using her will be able to consistently do them again in tournaments.

It simply doesn't change a thing about her strength aside from making her less accessible to other players and annoying others who already put in the work, thus no real balancing has been accomplished and the character remains as strong as ever.

RM AtK! said:

20+ 1 frame links Lvl up scrub noops

kinda 20x2 seeing as you cancel on the very first frame and input on the exact next one

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start blocking smoke's overhead on reaction then come in here and act all high and mighty

We had a nice little character community in here until this nerf, I didn't see that on the list yesterday.

Pan1cMode said:

If I'm honest, it seems like a rather arbitrary nerf and I can understand why it would frustrate D'Vorah players. Cassie went through something similar when f34 was changed so I get that.

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Fortunately for Cassie she's really, really, really, simple execution-wise.

I guess my problem is I've never had a situation where I've picked up a relatively difficult character, grinded the execution in Training for weeks, only for a patch to replace those difficult combos with even more difficult combos. I can execute the new shit but it isn't really the point. They increased the room for error, reduced the reward and have outright removed combos from her, without even replacing those with alternate options. Talk about getting bitch slapped. What? Because she was kinda good? Was the D'Vorah train wrecking shit across the globe?

They've just said "here we've reduced your combo potential, oh and your old combos are also harder but the damage is the same, have a nice day".

They couldn't just reduce the block advantage of f112 without fucking with its hit advantage AND her WCs? I don't buy it.

Probably sounds like I'm mad but I'm not, I'm over it... Fuck NRS though. Can't patch for shit. OK I guess I am mad.

Just to clarify, the execution requirements of a character does not relate to how balanced they are. When you talk about balance you are assuming the players are of the highest possible skill level.

As for my opinion on the second adjustment, it's kinda shitty but I'm gonna take it on the chin.

ChatterBox said:

start blocking smoke's overhead on reaction then come in here and act all high and mighty

We had a nice little character community in here until this nerf, I didn't see that on the list yesterday.

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@STRYKIE @BillStickers take care of my light work for meh...

you're character is fine btw m8.. some of the execution is tighter now big deal, and YOU MIGHT have to actually think and not autopilot incase of an armor attempt. it's not the end of the world. she's barely been touched tbh

RM AtK! said:

@STRYKIE @BillStickers take care of my light work for meh...

you're character is fine btw m8.. some of the execution is tighter now big deal, and YOU MIGHT have to actually think and not autopilot incase of an armor attempt. it's not the end of the world. she's barely been touched tbh

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So you come in here, tell us your buddy can do one frame links, then when challenged you call other people?

ChatterBox said:

So you come in here, tell us your buddy can do one frame links, then when challenged you call other people?

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no? actually that's me doing 1 frame links, and this is you gettin butthurt? are you okay m8?

RM AtK! said:

no? actually that's me doing 1 frame links, and this is you gettin butthurt? are you okay m8?

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Out of curiosity how long have you been doing those?

qspec said:

To nitpick, it isn't a "2 frame link" so much as it is 2 opportunities to hit a 1 frame link (with each opportunity spaced 1 frame apart). It is a small thing, but it does not widen the link window.

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So you agree that it still is quite hard

Take$$$ said:

Out of curiosity how long have you been doing those?

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doin what? 1 frame links ? like in other games as well? or just 2ndcs etc