What's new

MY PREDICTIONS FOR THE NEXT BALANCE PATCH - POST YOURS

Albo

Noob
Raiden:

F12 Block Advantage down from -3 to -5: This would make the window for counter poking 10 frames to beat out a follow up F1 from Raiden, ensuring that the entire cast has the universal option to throw as a counter poke. This string doesn't seem like it was intended as a block string anyway, as every character already has the option of counter poking out with either their D1 or D2 currently, but this change would allow for a universal interruption option and more wiggle room in general. Raiden still has the option to use meter to punish a counter poke.

Electrocute(DF2) Block Advantage down from -7 to -14: This would affect Raiden's option select from a B2 cancel, making it unsafe without meter usage, as currently the only time this string is used on block is for the option select from B2. Currently the option select makes Raiden's 50/50 far too strong for it's reward of up to 41% meterless or up to 39% with a restand. His low option is already safe and he builds almost half a bar of meter on block, so with the incentive to go for the low, his overhead shouldn't be safe and should be a high risk/high reward option. The option to use meter for an option select to make the B2 safe will still remain from Vicinity Blast(DB2+Block). The frame data change would match Shocker's(DF2+Block) block advantage.

Shocker(DF2+Block) Active Frames down from 17 to 11: Currently it's active window is too long. The opponent can make the proper read against Raiden by neutral jumping to counter aggression and still get punished on the way down. Lower active frames could still allow for it's use to counter cross ups while removing the possibility for the opponent to be punished for making the right read.

Vicinity Burst(DB2+Block) Block Advantage down from 0 to -4: It's versatility against grounded opponents warrants that it be negative on block, regardless of meter usage. It can be used to check pressure and counter pokes, counter armored wake ups, and its application to Raiden's B2 option select could currently allow him to continue to pressure with his 6 frame F1 even when guessing wrong on his 50/50. This change would give a 9 frame window for counter pokes against Raiden to beat out a follow up F1. Raiden still has the option to use meter to punish a counter poke.

Stop Bolt(DB1) from Bolt(DB1+Block) can no longer be canceled on hit or block: Currently Raiden can use Stop Bolt as Bolt is blocked to create a lightning orb while still having Bolt hit, or as it hits for extra damage in combos. Seems like a bug, regardless of the difficulty to execute on block, as it is difficult to execute, this should be fixed.

Together these changes would make for a more fair back and forth game between Raiden as his opponent, giving his opponents larger windows to counter poke between his safe aggression and create more opportunities for the opponent to punish. It forces Raiden to use the meter that he can build more quickly than most characters more often to make his high risk, high reward options safe, so he won't be sitting on as much meter for the threat of armor or for breakers.

Edit: Somewhat disappointed to see this become an argument thread about Raiden when it was definitely meant, and phrased in every way, to lead to a productive discussion about balancing in regards to all characters. But hey, silly me for thinking people were capable of that. Hopefully some people will still chime in with some well thought out suggestions for other characters; was hoping to see at least some people, who are actually knowledgeable/main the character, talk about: Erron Black, Scorpion, Jax, Sonya, D'vorrah, and Quan Chi, and possibly a few others. I'll add good posts to mine so people can see them, if any are made.
I agree with making making f12 -5 and removing the option select but not the other suggestions. I think the first two are enough.

Also why not just reduce the hit stun off b2 to remove the option select instead of making electrocute -14? Because electrocute isn't useless for me as I use it to cancel from charge strings sometimes, and b33.
 

Epy69zSmallBoys

No respect for Kung Jin
I really like option selects, it adds another layer to the game... Things should be done to some of them that are OP though like raidens overhead to the shocker...fro - 67 to -7 real quick :\
OS are f*cking stupid, this game is already losing players with too many 50/50s, but add OS to that? Jeezus
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Raiden:

F12 Block Advantage down from -3 to -5: This would make the window for counter poking 10 frames to beat out a follow up F1 from Raiden, ensuring that the entire cast has the universal option to throw as a counter poke. This string doesn't seem like it was intended as a block string anyway, as every character already has the option of counter poking out with either their D1 or D2 currently, but this change would allow for a universal interruption option and more wiggle room in general. Raiden still has the option to use meter to punish a counter poke.
I would be fine with this. But I don't understand what the big deal is. It's no different than a character who has a string that's 0 on block and following up with a 9 frame mid. Also keep in mind that f1 can be low profiled. But I wouldn't lose my shit if this happened. It can still be armored, back dashed, and poked out of unless your character has no poke that's 8 frames or less. However, i realize some characters don't have pokes that fast and it would be easier to make f12 -5 rather than give all of those characters faster pokes.

Electrocute(DF2) Block Advantage down from -7 to -14
: This would affect Raiden's option select from a B2 cancel, making it unsafe without meter usage, as currently the only time this string is used on block is for the option select from B2. Currently the option select makes Raiden's 50/50 far too strong for it's reward of up to 41% meterless or up to 39% with a restand. His low option is already safe and he builds almost half a bar of meter on block, so with the incentive to go for the low, his overhead shouldn't be safe and should be a high risk/high reward option. The option to use meter for an option select to make the B2 safe will still remain from Vicinity Blast(DB2+Block). The frame data change would match Shocker's(DF2+Block) block advantage.
Uh no. NO NO NO NO NO. I realize that the b2 option select is dumb, but that doesn't mean we should go around making safe special moves unsafe. It's still a high and can be ducked and FULL COMBO PUNISHED. Even if you block it... depending on your character, you get a free poke and for everyone else it gives them free pressure. Don't punish Raiden because NRS has some weird option select timing in the game that they should fix. Making shocker unsafe only addresses the symptom and not the problem. Other characters have this exact same option select.

Shocker(DF2+Block) Active Frames down from 17 to 11
: Currently it's active window is too long. The opponent can make the proper read against Raiden by neutral jumping to counter aggression and still get punished on the way down. Lower active frames could still allow for it's use to counter cross ups while removing the possibility for the opponent to be punished for making the right read.
What? Why can't you just low profile and full combo punish? Or just block and full combo? LOL this nerf suggestion is absurd. Ex-shocker isn't the best anti-crossup option. A lot of times it flies THROUGH the opponent and whiffs, giving them an opportunity for a full combo.

Vicinity Burst(DB2+Block) Block Advantage down from 0 to -4
: It's versatility against grounded opponents warrants that it be negative on block, regardless of meter usage. It can be used to check pressure and counter pokes, counter armored wake ups, and its application to Raiden's B2 option select could currently allow him to continue to pressure with his 6 frame F1 even when guessing wrong on his 50/50. This change would give a 9 frame window for counter pokes against Raiden to beat out a follow up F1. Raiden still has the option to use meter to punish a counter poke.
Wtf? This move needs nerfed? I read your whole explanation and I still don't understand your complaints. You realize it's a high so you can just duck it and full combo right?

Stop Bolt(DB1) from Bolt(DB1+Block) can no longer be canceled on hit or block
: Currently Raiden can use Stop Bolt as Bolt is blocked to create a lightning orb while still having Bolt hit, or as it hits for extra damage in combos. Seems like a bug, regardless of the difficulty to execute on block, as it is difficult to execute, this should be fixed.
Yeah I'm fine with this. It's clearly a bug and stopping the bolt shouldn't give extra damage.






In summary: I'm fine with making f12 -5 on block and fixing the stop ex-bolt bug. Everything else is absolutely absurd.
 

Cerebru

Noob
I would be fine with this. But I don't understand what the big deal is. It's no different than a character who has a string that's 0 on block and following up with a 9 frame mid. Also keep in mind that f1 can be low profiled. But I wouldn't lose my shit if this happened. It can still be armored, back dashed, and poked out of unless your character has no poke that's 8 frames or less. However, i realize some characters don't have pokes that fast and it would be easier to make f12 -5 rather than give all of those characters faster pokes.



Uh no. NO NO NO NO NO. I realize that the b2 option select is dumb, but that doesn't mean we should go around making safe special moves unsafe. It's still a high and can be ducked and FULL COMBO PUNISHED. Even if you block it... depending on your character, you get a free poke and for everyone else it gives them free pressure. Don't punish Raiden because NRS has some weird option select timing in the game that they should fix. Making shocker unsafe only addresses the symptom and not the problem. Other characters have this exact same option select.



What? Why can't you just low profile and full combo punish? Or just block and full combo? LOL this nerf suggestion is absurd. Ex-shocker isn't the best anti-crossup option. A lot of times it flies THROUGH the opponent and whiffs, giving them an opportunity for a full combo.



Wtf? This move needs nerfed? I read your whole explanation and I still don't understand your complaints. You realize it's a high so you can just duck it and full combo right?



Yeah I'm fine with this. It's clearly a bug and stopping the bolt shouldn't give extra damage.






In summary: I'm fine with making f12 -5 on block and fixing the stop ex-bolt bug. Everything else is absolutely absurd.
Madness lol
 

Cerebru

Noob
You've come off as a complete douche in almost all your post. In addition, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Guess I gotta dust off the ignore feature again.
I am a asshole son. In a community full of asshole seems lol. Ignoring me want make your problems go away. Trust.
What's madness? My response or his? Use your words son lol
His post. He acts like he knows. I like your thoughts. I do believe F12 is really good. He needs it VS the Cage fam. I feel. Still waiting on that add BTW. its not broken its pressure. JAX has it Cage has it Sonya cassie had it lol ...Scorpion is a MONSTER! Ill say again Scorps is a Monster but Im not crying Nerf boon nope. Wait til you play a real hell fire scorps then. They'll say let Raiden keep his everything fair is fair lol.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
I still wonder why Raiden has 4 extremely good Armored EX moves
Well, ex-shocker and ex-vb are both highs and can be neutral ducked and full combo'd. All of his wakeups are full combo on block except for ex-vicinity blast.
 
Good read, have to agree that just because a character doesn't have a safe 50/50 doesn't mean theyre bad. I feel like 50/50's are being focused on just because theyre easy to discover and because a lot of players spent their time looking for them in injustice as they were very good in that game

Once more players begin to look for different ways to play the game instead of the 50/50 game I feel more characters will be very good
 

qspec

Noob
OS are f*cking stupid, this game is already losing players with too many 50/50s, but add OS to that? Jeezus
Exactly right. As someone else pointed out, it replaces good and sound decisions with nothing but execution.

MikeZ said it best: "OSs are not not reads, they are training mode practice, and in my opinion they do not enrich the gaming experience at all."

They literally bring nothing to the table as far as I'm concerned, and the people saying they do rarely articulate exactly what that is.
 

haketh

Noob
Well, ex-shocker and ex-vb are both highs and can be neutral ducked and full combo'd. All of his wakeups are full combo on block except for ex-vicinity blast.
Honestly the only one that gets to me is EX Superman is because it makes zoning in a game where it's weak already super obnoxious lol. I just don't like the abundance of armor in gneral & I'm not a big fan of how EX Shocker plays into the footsies game. If it was up to me he'd only have EX Vicinity Blast & the DP move, hell I'd remove a good 80% of the armor in the game, the shit is od lol.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Honestly the only one that gets to me is EX Superman is because it makes zoning in a game where it's weak already super obnoxious lol. I just don't like the abundance of armor in gneral & I'm not a big fan of how EX Shocker plays into the footsies game. If it was up to me he'd only have EX Vicinity Blast & the DP move, hell I'd remove a good 80% of the armor in the game, the shit is od lol.
But you could also just block and punish every single one of his wakeups except for ex-vb which is 0 on block.
 

haketh

Noob
But you could also just block and punish every single one of his wakeups except for ex-vb which is 0 on block.
I'm just not a fan of reversals that cover a ton of ground & lead to combos, fuck I don't even like Reptile EX Claw being armored & a launcher. Just a preference thing & it won't really affect my enjoyment of the game if all the armor stays.
 

Inception

I love Kitana
they need to not go throwing the nerf bat just yet they need to buff people that need love or don't have proper tools in a 50/50 world. If your playing a zone character that can't out zone zoners and can't out zone people that are'nt zone characters that's a problem. When people still have 50/50 to fall back on.