Are Nrs Games The Scrubbiest Games (easiest to learn) in the Fgc?

[Desperdicio]

How are you jumping to these conclusions based on the posts he's made? Him saying the game is easy to get competent at doesn't imply anything beyond that. You sound as someone who is primarily an online player and getting offended by what he said...

Who's jumping to conclusions, now?

Let's see: he complains because people are getting "somewhat competent" very easily. How does that affect him, except if he's not good enough? Or is it that he only has fun when there are just a couple of guys at his level (those who don't have a life, because the game is so hard to learn that they have to invest a lot of time there in order to be good) and the rest is very easy to beat and easily impressed by a somewhat competent player?

In the end, elitism wins the fight with "I want the scene to expand", it seems.

In your thread about "several notable players" who dislike the game, Pig asked you to name them so he could tell you their whereabouts; as I recall, you never answered him.

 

[Kitana Prime]

I only popped in to say a few things.

The main reason people think our community is toxic is because...you guessed it - the online portion of it, mainly TYM. I read here and there because every single thing isn't poison, but staying away has proven infinitely better towards my fun with the community and even with the game. Every single "outsider" or new person who attends events ALWAYS tells me the same thing after meeting/interacting everyone they do.

"Man, you NRS dudes are actually cool."

I'm paraphrasing, but then I have to tell them its only the majority of the online forum guys where that negative stigma sparks from and they admit that's why they thought so. I go out of my way to welcome/interact with everyone into the scene, from perennial top player to 0-2 hopeful who's intimidated to even speak to me.

Also, "scrubby" is so disrespectful. Every game has it's dirt, but MKX's or NRS' games in general low entry barrier is godlike for consumers. Also, like MK9 and Injustice before it, these "scrubby" games consistently have the hands down best players placing / winning - consistently. I dont see where scrubbery comes into play - maybe early on in the game's life or when players haven't prepared for gimmicks. That's our fault, and the early game strats overpower every game.

Oh, and if we're talking on a casual level...

Please.

 

[virtiqaL]

Who's jumping to conclusions, now?

Let's see: he complains because people are getting "somewhat competent" very easily. How does that affect him, except if he's not good enough?

Again, why does his opinion of the game being easy to become competent at strike you as a 'complaint'? And where does he say that this affects him in any way?....

This isn't me 'jumping to a conclusion' or making an assumption, I'm going by what you're saying.

In your thread about "several notable players" who dislike the game, Pig asked you to name them so he could tell you their whereabouts; as I recall, you never answered him.

He asked me to list the "missing faces" I was referring to from the MK9 era, not people who were disappointed with the game. As far as people notable people who have struck me as being apathetic towards the game, I mentioned people like PL, Brady (at times), and even Pig himself (at times), which he didn't feel the need to expound upon.

I also mentioned Wound Cowboy as someone who has said himself he that he "Doesn't particularly enjoy the game."

 

[Desperdicio]

Again, why does his opinion of the game being easy to become competent at strike you as a 'complaint'? And where does he say that this affects him in any way?....

He wouldn't complain if it didn't affect him, unless he were a whiner by nature. As for why it is a complaint: "You can be an online warrior with pretty much 0 dedication or lab work. Other fighting games weed out people like that over time. NRS seems to have those people stick around indefinitely."

This isn't me 'jumping to a conclusion' or making an assumption, I'm going by what you're saying.

Yeah? Where did I say what you mentioned?

He asked me to list the "missing faces" I was referring to from the MK9 era, not people who were disappointed with the game. As far as people notable people who have struck me as being apathetic towards the game, I mentioned people like PL, Brady (at times), and even Pig himself (at times), which he didn't feel the need to expound upon.

Pig complained about Kenshi in particular. PL and Brady haven't been notable in this game.

 

[virtiqaL]

Nevermind...

 

[Skellington]

Though, I will say as of late with the slew of negative MKX threads, that maybe it's getting bashed a little too much at this point. I mean, I definitely wouldn't call it a terrible fighter by any stretch, I just fear it may not have what it takes to retain interest in the long term when compared to the lifespan of MK9, and with games like SFV around the corner.

I don't think it's getting bashed too much at all. People are obviously upset with the game and are voicing their opinions. Let's call it what it is, NRS dropped the ball with this game

 

[B. Shazzy]

Street Fighter is the 'Coke' of fighting games. It will never be topped unless they do something catastrophic. It really doesn't have much to do with if it's a better game or not.

Pepsi Paradox. Look it up.

That's where we can't agree. There isn't nuance in taste like Pepsi and Coke, it's a clear difference that doesn't take accomplished players of both games to see. I don't belive that MKX is the same as SF just beacuse they're in the same genre and share universal fg concepts. It would be more appropriate to say nrs is RC Cola to SF's Coke. Right now, you're scribbling "Coke" on your RC Cola bottle and trying to sell it in this thread.

I mean it's ok be that guy who brings RC Cola to the party but don't be upset when everyone's already drinking Coke.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Then you're an elitist, and you want only high-level competitive players to play the game, which is ridiculous. It's like complaining that there are casuals in a fighting game. Also, you don't know how much those "online warriors" practiced, so you can't really say "0 dedication or lab work". If they're above casual level, even if it's only a couple BnBs that they know, they've been practicing.

"It's easy to get somewhat competent at this game", is basically what you're saying. How can that affect you if you're so good? If you can beat them, then it's the same whether they're casuals or "somewhat competent". If they give you trouble, then you need to level up your game instead of complain about theirs.

Dude you're assuming an awful lot. I didn't say it was really a bad thing. Just that you don't need to know as much to play at a level where it's fun compared to other fighting games. It leads to a slightly more casual community on avg. if you think I care about that that's fine, but it's just an opinion not an indictment.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Just for the record it wasn't a complaint. I don't think difficulty has any effect on the quality of a game or it's fun factor. I'm sorry if it offended you.

 

[Slips]

That's where we can't agree. There isn't nuance in taste like Pepsi and Coke, it's a clear difference that doesn't take accomplished players of both games to see. I don't belive that MKX is the same as SF just beacuse they're in the same genre and share universal fg concepts. It would be more appropriate to say nrs is RC Cola to SF's Coke. Right now, you're scribbling "Coke" on your RC Cola bottle and trying to sell it in this thread.

I mean it's ok be that guy who brings RC Cola to the party but don't be upset when everyone's already drinking Coke.

The Pepsi paradox has nothing to do with marginal taste. You don't even know what you're talking about.

A study was conducted in the late 1970's and taste tests proved Pepsi was preferred over Coke. Pepsi ran a marketing campaign over it and started to catch up to Coke in sales. Coke freaked out and made a new recipe to try and fight off Pepsi. People got pissed that Coke changed their recipe and raged. Coke then made Coca-Cola Classic along-side with their new recipe.. It was so controversial that Coke ended up selling their classic recipe more than ever and the new recipe eventually got weeded out.

Bottom line is, even though Pepsi tastes better people still buy Coke more. It's just the soda you buy if you want soda. Even when Coke freaked out and did something stupid people still hold loyalty to Coke.

NRS could make a game that is even better than sf, but because sf is 'the game you play' if you wanna play fighting games they will always have a stranglehold on the market.

 

[Desperdicio]

Dude you're assuming an awful lot. I didn't say it was really a bad thing. Just that you don't need to know as much to play at a level where it's fun compared to other fighting games. It leads to a slightly more casual community on avg. if you think I care about that that's fine, but it's just an opinion not an indictment.

Just for the record it wasn't a complaint. I don't think difficulty has any effect on the quality of a game or it's fun factor. I'm sorry if it offended you.

No offence taken. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

 

[d3v]

The complaints literally started before the Beta began. People who watched the first exhibition tournament were already declaring things to be OP on Twitter.

But it's a game in development which is where you want to get feedback, even from just those watching the game.

I mean, sure some of the comments were scrubby, but there was no doubt that some of the things in the E3 build needed fixing. For example, Momochi has 80%-90% V-trigger combos off 1 day of play.

The Pepsi paradox has nothing to do with marginal taste. You don't even know what you're talking about.

A study was conducted in the late 1970's and taste tests proved Pepsi was preferred over Coke. Pepsi ran a marketing campaign over it and started to catch up to Coke in sales. Coke freaked out and made a new recipe to try and fight off Pepsi. People got pissed that Coke changed their recipe and raged. Coke then made Coca-Cola Classic along-side with their new recipe.. It was so controversial that Coke ended up selling their classic recipe more than ever and the new recipe eventually got weeded out.

Bottom line is, even though Pepsi tastes better people still buy Coke more. It's just the soda you buy if you want soda. Even when Coke freaked out and did something stupid people still hold loyalty to Coke.

NRS could make a game that is even better than sf, but because sf is 'the game you play' if you wanna play fighting games they will always have a stranglehold on the market.

Not gonna happen until NRS gets rid of a ton of their bad habits.

-shitty netcode
-not using hitstun for combos
-3D hit detection in a 2D game
-stance switching/stance specific combos in a 2D game
-shitty netcode

 

[B. Shazzy]

The Pepsi paradox has nothing to do with marginal taste. You don't even know what you're talking about.

A study was conducted in the late 1970's and taste tests proved Pepsi was preferred over Coke. Pepsi ran a marketing campaign over it and started to catch up to Coke in sales. Coke freaked out and made a new recipe to try and fight off Pepsi. People got pissed that Coke changed their recipe and raged. Coke then made Coca-Cola Classic along-side with their new recipe.. It was so controversial that Coke ended up selling their classic recipe more than ever and the new recipe eventually got weeded out.

Bottom line is, even though Pepsi tastes better people still buy Coke more. It's just the soda you buy if you want soda. Even when Coke freaked out and did something stupid people still hold loyalty to Coke.

NRS could make a game that is even better than sf, but because sf is 'the game you play' if you wanna play fighting games they will always have a stranglehold on the market.

I assumed you were trying to bring up how divisive people could be in preferance in brand colas - how either you're pepsi or cola guy. I didn't look up any study from 40 years ago.

Read up and there's a completely valid explaination why Pepsi did well in taste tests over Coke despite Coke overtaking them in sales to this very day. Funnily enough, much like nrs games, Pepsi is good - at first. It's just sweeter than Coke. Everyone can enjoy a sip of Pepsi until your halfway through a bottle and then it becomes bland like all sweet things. People will finish the bottle of Coke though. Coke has much more lasting power both in style and quality proven by Pepsi still losing. So of course in a taste test, a few sips, Pepsi could win. In the long run? Not a chance.

I used to work at a resturant that surprisingly didn't serve Coke. When taking drink orders, you know how many times I had to respond to with "I'm sorry, is Pepsi ok?" You ever hear anyone order a Jack and Pepsi? "The Pepsi Challenge" was a good marketing gimmick, something nrs are experts at themselves, but Pepsi was never truly better. Coke has always been the fundamentally better product and most people do like better. The numbers don't lie.

You're right, I can't think of a better metaphor for SF and NRS games than that, thanks.

 

[Desperdicio]

-not using hitstun for combos
-3D hit detection in a 2D game
-stance switching/stance specific combos in a 2D game

Can you please tell me what the first two are referring to? I know what hitstun is; I don't know how you mean on combos: do you mean when Johnny ends the BnB in a nut punch, so it's kind of a reset, or when pressure characters use their "projectile cancels" inside of BnBs, or something else? And I have no idea about the second point. And in the case of the third part (stance specific combos): I only know one with Sub-Zero; what other character has them? And if you can list a few, all the better. I know I'm asking for a lot of information; anything you can provide will be welcome.

 

[KingHippo]

-not using hitstun for combos
-3D hit detection in a 2D game
-stance switching/stance specific combos in a 2D game

What stance specific stuff is like all over the place to the point where it's a problem? Another thing I don't get is why MK is supposed to drab up for the sake of other players. I understand your point was why it will never be "popular," but still, it's odd. Is it a bad thing that the game is unique like that? What harm is it causing beyond making its own niche? Shouldn't that kind of stuff be celebrated? Fuudo for thought.

 

[HeroesNZ]

Easy to learn =/= Scrubby - poor choice of words OP considering you're on an NRS FG site (or great choice of words if this is a Juicy thread in disguise).

Also why are we talking about Coke & Pepsi in a world where Rubicon exists

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

why is this even a discussion? since it is a competitive game the meta evolves around the players, not the game, yes the games mechanics play a role but for the most part the community plays the biggest part since after all it is about improving and playing against other players, there is no level cap for fighting games and there is always improving, no matter what game it is it isnt scrubby or easy to learn at the highest level, since as i have said, it depends on defeating the other player. and to say that one is is just plain ignorant considering how all those people who say that mortal kombat or smash or persona 4 arena are scrubby would get their asses demolished going up against a high level player for said games. the meta stops growing when the community stops getting better, and that will never happen, no matter how small the game people are always getting better at their respective games, even if it is a slow pace

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I personally can't stand Pepsi. It goes flat and bland tasting too quickly. Coke for lyfe.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Im a Dr. Pepper guy myself

 

[FL Rushdown]

But it's a game in development which is where you want to get feedback, even from just those watching the game.

I mean, sure some of the comments were scrubby, but there was no doubt that some of the things in the E3 build needed fixing. For example, Momochi has 80%-90% V-trigger combos off 1 day of play.

Not gonna happen until NRS gets rid of a ton of their bad habits.

-shitty netcode
-not using hitstun for combos
-3D hit detection in a 2D game
-stance switching/stance specific combos in a 2D game
-shitty netcode

The netkode matters a lot. The stance switch is just kinda annoying, but I dont have a problem with them relying mostly on chains instead of links. That's just a personal preference, even street fighter has characters that mostly rely on strings instead of hitstun based links(guy for example).

If there's one thing I don't really like about MK it's the block button. I feel like removing the potential for cross ups just takes depth out of the game and forces them to give characters pretty ridiculous mix ups because they lack a pretty classic way to open people up. I also think the block button kinda changes the way footsies play out but again that's all just an opinion. Doesn't change the fact that it takes some serious hard work to play at the highest level.

 

[juicepouch]

Pibb Xtra is king of soda, for real

 

[FL Rushdown]

Besides. Do you really want ermac to be able to go d3, d3, d3, f4 and have that combo? It'd be ridiculous if characters could link like sf characters.

 

[Genei Jin]

When Tom Brady and Pig reps this community, then yes, it's the scrubbiest community in the FGC.

Can't adapt? lets bitch and cry until NRS throws them a bone

 

[B. Shazzy]

Besides. Do you really want ermac to be able to go d3, d3, d3, f4 and have that combo? It'd be ridiculous if characters could link like sf characters.

Linking shorts chain in sf while creating pushback on hit, and not every normal links you could just implement the same system

 

[FL Rushdown]

Linking shorts chain in sf while creating pushback on hit, and not every normal links you could just implement the same system

Well yet again sf shows it has some silly rules because not all shorts chain. Fei long can't chain cr lk into cr lk, it's not even link able anymore. But yeah I was referring to him being able to link low pokes into his 50/50 basically making it hit confirm able and completely safe at a high enough level. Yeah the system would be changed and I agree sf has a more interesting combo system but I wouldn't say that it's that big of a deal.