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Wondering why buff Quan's poke to 6 and not sub's?

IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Because all his other tools are really good and has a hard to punish Armour Reversal

Most pokes are 8-10 frames averagely
 
-narshkajke-

-narshkajke-

klone enthusiast
JJV Phoenix said:
Because Sub has:
-the best d4 in the game
-a solid d3
-a fast, reliable armor move with which to get out of corner pressure via exploiting gaps, wake up, or reversal
-a fast parry in one variation


Sub didn't get put in block infinites by pressure characters, in fact no one aside from Quan did. They rectified that with the 6f d1, which is only +3 on hit and -9 on block. It only guarantees him a turn, maybe a throw, nothing else. His d1 exists separately from whatever other tools he has that leads people to question why he received it.
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that fast parry that you mentioned, is his worst move. it's fast but it's also got horrid recovery
 
exflyingbooty

exflyingbooty

This dream has a sad ending
-narshkajke- said:
lol, really habibi? is it even better than takeda's parry? or Kotal's parry?
or did you forgot to put :DOGE in the end of your sentence?
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Kotal's no, takeda's yes

I don't know how many times i have to say it put your parry is better then sonya's, liu, kitana and ect
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
If we gunna justify Quan Chis buffs with "but the block infinites!" can anyone tell me what they actually are? If he was to lose his 6f D1 today would any character block infinite him? The LK one was removed with the same patch, the Takeda one wasn't known till AFTER the buffs, and was promptly removed in the hotfix follow up... I may be wrong here I ain't been paying much attention to MK over the past couple of weeks, so I'd love for someone to bring me up to date on exactly where we stand with this.
 
JJV Phoenix

JJV Phoenix

I'm not Vak goddamnit
-narshkajke- said:
that fast parry that you mentioned, is his worst move. it's fast but it's also got horrid recovery
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Yeah...so do most of them. Liu's can't get lows. Kano has to make a guess of high/low on his and it has bad recovery. Kitana's starts up slow af. Sonya's has bad recovery. None of the aforementioned lead to a full combo like Sub's with the exception of sonya's EX parry + 1/3. If Sub's expecting pressure and you know there's a gap, you parry for a full combo. If your opponent staggers pressure and makes a read you get punished.

WELCOME TO THE CONCEPT OF MINDGAMES.
 
JJV Phoenix

JJV Phoenix

I'm not Vak goddamnit
I GOT HANDS said:
If we gunna justify Quan Chis buffs with "but the block infinites!" can anyone tell me what they actually are? If he was to lose his 6f D1 today would any character block infinite him? The LK one was removed with the same patch, the Takeda one wasn't known till AFTER the buffs, and was promptly removed in the hotfix follow up... I may be wrong here I ain't been paying much attention to MK over the past couple of weeks, so I'd love for someone to bring me up to date on exactly where we stand with this.
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Tanya could loop a 112 (8f startup) into whichever rekka sequence left her -2 indefinitely in the corner, or use 112 tele cancel to be +whatever. A-list Johnny pressure in the corner requires a perfectly timed 8f poke if used correctly, and if he had meter GG, he can EX forceball to be +4. His 11 string is +2 and has 7 or 8f startup, I forget, but starts high. Lao could 11212 exhat for +12 and go right back into it until he was out of meter. A 3 meter lao was going to get 4 reps of the string (approx 1 and 1/2 bars built from chip) on QC for god knows how much chip. LK could dash/run cancel infinite him in DF and I'm pretty sure he could do it in Dualist as well with the stance switch pressure (not sure of the frame data on those cancels, honestly). Jax could frustrate to no end but I don't think he had an infinite on him.

Mind you, any of these can be broken with a well-timed armor move with decent startup (probably anywhere under 20 frames) or a 6-7 frame poke. Maybe an 8f poke if you're a robot.
 
Kevin 7

Kevin 7

The bad boy scout
Each adjustment/patch/hotfix would end up having Quan having a block infinite simply because he didn't have a poke that was too slow. Kung Lao, Tayna, Ronin Takeda, I'm sure there were others. So in order to address future issues that was probably one reason to give that to him.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Can everybody just forget your selfish agendas for a moment and see clearly?
MKX is a horrible game currently with a lot of dirt in the top10 (including my mains)
It might not be too late for community effort to make a big request on making things fair for everyone.
 
-narshkajke-

-narshkajke-

klone enthusiast
JJV Phoenix said:
Yeah...so do most of them. Liu's can't get lows. Kano has to make a guess of high/low on his and it has bad recovery. Kitana's starts up slow af. Sonya's has bad recovery. None of the aforementioned lead to a full combo like Sub's with the exception of sonya's EX parry + 1/3. If Sub's expecting pressure and you know there's a gap, you parry for a full combo. If your opponent staggers pressure and makes a read you get punished.

WELCOME TO THE CONCEPT OF MINDGAMES.
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wow habibi, you seems like the right person to pull out unbreakable sub parry into a new high, please enlighten us with your wisdom.

unbreakable parry is horrid habibi, you can get overhead, you got full kombo punished if it's failing, and it will most of the time, because there's not string to bait opponent into parry, and worse of all you can't use the parry against continuous projectile like it perhaps supposed to.

there's a reason you don't see many people using unbreakable sub, and even if they use unbreakable sub, they won't use parry as often as aura.
 
ATP2014

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
Kung Lao CANNOT loop 11214 EX hat on ANYONE after the patch. EX hat has too much pushback now, and Quan can also backdash all following pressure for free at midscreen.
 
JJV Phoenix

JJV Phoenix

I'm not Vak goddamnit
-narshkajke- said:
wow habibi, you seems like the right person to pull out unbreakable sub parry into a new high, please enlighten us with your wisdom.

unbreakable parry is horrid habibi, you can get overhead, you got full kombo punished if it's failing, and it will most of the time, because there's not string to bait opponent into parry, and worse of all you can't use the parry against continuous projectile like it perhaps supposed to.

there's a reason you don't see many people using unbreakable sub, and even if they use unbreakable sub, they won't use parry as often as aura.
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But it's an OPTION. OUT. OF. PRESSURE. That's the point. I didn't say it was the ultimate move or that it was even great. It's just an option that's relevant to the OP's question. Go complain about whatever you perceive to be Sub-Zero's faults at your local Lord Brady shrine.
 
M

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
why?

because they felt like he needed it and that is all the answer you're ever gonna get. nrs does what nrs does and there is often zero logical justification we can discern from just the end result of their design process.

i mean shit they can't design a grappler/big body that hovers above mid-tier without making them broken as all fuck.
 
-narshkajke-

-narshkajke-

klone enthusiast
JJV Phoenix said:
But it's an OPTION. OUT. OF. PRESSURE. That's the point. I didn't say it was the ultimate move or that it was even great. It's just an option that's relevant to the OP's question. Go complain about whatever you perceive to be Sub-Zero's faults at your local Lord Brady shrine.
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why are you so salty and in rage habibi? You're saying about how that ice parry is good, and I'm just laying it out for you how it's not worth your while. that is all. and isn't all parry basically option out of pressure? lol
I'm not complaining just explaining habibi, and also, praise thy brady:DOGE
 
Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
Maybe they think giving sub a 6 frame d1 would be too much since he already has tons of fast mid or low strings (b12, f12, f33, b33, f42) and the trade off for having all of those fast, (in many cases hit confirmable) strings is that his poke game is slightly weaker. Also he has a 7 frame standing normal punisher and a very fast special reversal (slide) as well as a great "get off me" armor move in db1.

As a sub player I would not complain if he also had a 6 frame d1 but realistically with his other universal tools I can see why that would not be a priority
 
Kingshootahz

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
JJV Phoenix said:
Fun fact: In a MU with QC Jax will occasionally say "You're the DEVIL!"...after bullying Quan to death with hella + frames in the corner.
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Can confirm, he will also say " I'll kill you..for what you did to me" Also a 6f d1 is only given to those with weak defenses SUCH as KOTAL KAHN but then again IDK..GIVE JAX 6f d1.
 
JJV Phoenix

JJV Phoenix

I'm not Vak goddamnit
-narshkajke- said:
why are you so salty and in rage habibi? You're saying about how that ice parry is good, and I'm just laying it out for you how it's not worth your while. that is all. and isn't all parry basically option out of pressure? lol
I'm not complaining just explaining habibi, and also, praise thy brady:DOGE
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You haven't read this thread at all, have you?
 
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