Unsolved Mysteries of MKX: Advantage Armored Launchers

[Immortal]

@Pig Of The Hut

I feel like this broading labeling of "plus on block" moves is basically just cherry picking traits that moves have to shoe horn them into a category that sounds bad but doesn't really mean much as far as how the move functions balance wise.

For example, Goro's positive on block launcher is b12u2. Have you seen that string? The range is awful, it's unusable in footsies. Even after a jip it'll whiff. It's mostly used as a punish(which nets him around 30% meterless, good but nothing crazy) or when you have frame advantage AND are standing point blank(this happens way less often than you might think, things that give a player frame advantage very often have pushback). The string has hole you can armor through or backdash out of. Sometimes the third hit also whiffs and he's full combo punishable(this can still happen even though they fixed it). It's plus 2 and has enough pushback that all Goro gets is a d1.
Is this a good move? Sure. Is it something that breaks the rules of the game and Kenshi players should be jealous of? Not even close.
I bet almost all the other moves in this category breakdown in a similar way when you look at the whole move rather than the label of "positive armored launcher".


It also very much ignores the context of the characters that have the moves. It's kind of like me as a Goro player complaining "Why do all these characters have fast, safe, forward advancing footsies moves that lead to combos? Why doesn't Goro get that?". It's sounds kind of reasonable until you think about the fact that Goro has 3 hits of safe forward advancing safe armor that launch and destroy any footsies tool in the game. Goro still sorta sucks, but there's a reason he doesn't have those other good footsies moves. I presume there's a similar deal with Kenshi. Maybe he sucks, but complaining about his lack frame advantage launching moves and portraying those as super broken kinda ignores the bigger picture and doesn't say anything useful about balance

You should pay more attention.

The RK buff was my idea, so i will take the hit. @Pig Of The Hut is / was oppose to any ex / armored moves to be plus on block in MK X. Which is also reasonable but probably never gonna happen. As for Goro in your words "atleast he has 3 hits forward advancing armor move that launches". Kenshi in balanced has nothing.

 

[4x4lo8o]

You should pay more attention.

The RK buff was my idea, so i will take the hit. @Pig Of The Hut is / was oppose to any ex / armored moves to be plus on block in MK X. Which is also reasonable but probably never gonna happen. As for Goro in your words "atleast he has 3 hits forward advancing armor move that launches". Kenshi in balanced has nothing.

Uhhh, you should pay more attention probably. The thread is about positive armored moves and @KingHippo pretty well debunked the idea that that is a common thing. A few posts down Pig says his complaint is plus on block launchers, no mention of armor

My #1 complaint that you hear from me is SAFE PLUS ON BLOCK Launchers. MOVES W NO CONSEQUENCE. THESE ARE MOVES THAT SAY "yo bro u guessed incorrectly? It's cool here's some +frames for your trouble so go guess again"

Kenshi is one of the few who doesn't have this, there's actually a real consequence for when he wants to try and mix someone up or start pressure or hell even zone

And then later he makes a list of characters that includes Goro. Goro does not have a positive on block armored launcher, nor do most of the other characters on that list. So... yeah, maybe try reading the thread before you tell me to pay attention?

 

[KingHippo]

You should pay more attention.

The RK buff was my idea, so i will take the hit. @Pig Of The Hut is / was oppose to any ex / armored moves to be plus on block in MK X. Which is also reasonable but probably never gonna happen. As for Goro in your words "atleast he has 3 hits forward advancing armor move that launches". Kenshi in balanced has nothing.

Which is actually kind of funny when you consider MK9 hehheh

Nevertheless, I think that since there are only two actual + on block armored launchers, I don't think any more need to be added. Bad game design shouldn't beget more bad game design.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Uhhh, you should pay more attention probably. The thread is about positive armored moves and @KingHippo pretty well debunked the idea that that is a common thing. A few posts down Pig says his complaint is plus on block launchers, no mention of armor



And then later he makes a list of characters that includes Goro. Goro does not have a positive on block armored launcher, nor do most of the other characters on that list. So... yeah, maybe try reading the thread before you tell me to pay attention?

What's ex punch walk on block

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Which is actually kind of funny when you consider MK9 hehheh

Nevertheless, I think that since there are only two actual + on block armored launchers, I don't think any more need to be added. Bad game design shouldn't beget more bad game design.

What about safe armored launchers

 

[4x4lo8o]

What's ex punch walk on block

Negative 5 I think

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Negative 5 I think

Then that falls under safe armored launcher

I'd like that

 

[Immortal]

Uhhh, you should pay more attention probably. The thread is about positive armored moves and @KingHippo pretty well debunked the idea that that is a common thing. A few posts down Pig says his complaint is plus on block launchers, no mention of armor

Was pretty sure he talked on stream about armored but okay, considering only post in this thread. You're right.

And then later he makes a list of characters that includes Goro. Goro does not have a positive on block armored launcher, nor do most of the other characters on that list. So... yeah, maybe try reading the thread before you tell me to pay attention?

The "pay attention" i should have worded differently. This came out harsh and that was not my intention, i'm sorry. That being said, it doesn't change the fact that EX Punchwalk is a great move and i would love something like this for Kenshi. I'm not saying that Goro is good or anything like that to be clear.

Which is actually kind of funny when you consider MK9 hehheh

Nevertheless, I think that since there are only two actual + on block armored launchers, I don't think any more need to be added. Bad game design shouldn't beget more bad game design.

MK9.... good times thou.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Then that falls under safe armored launcher

I'd like that

If you're talking about buffs for your character, go for it, I have no opinion about what your character needs or should have. My opinion would be worthless.

However the way you appear to have made that descision sounds like "this character has something, so my character needs it to" and that's garbage. Talk about what your character needs in the context of your character, otherwise you're like a Quan Chi player complaining about not having fast pokes

 

[juicepouch]

Since when did safe become advantage

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

There is a reason goro has one of the few safe armored moves. Because everything else he has is not so good.

Kenshis full screen presence is still better than everything goro has. Is goro better than Kenshi?

 

[4x4lo8o]

The "pay attention" i should have worded differently. This came out harsh and that was not my intention, i'm sorry. That being said, it doesn't change the fact that EX Punchwalk is a great move and i would love something like this for Kenshi. I'm not saying that Goro is good or anything like that to be clear.

Haha, we're good then. For the record, I think Balanced Kenshi is a good candidate for buffs. I just think the way Pig has been talking about it doesn't have any real depth.
And yeah, every Goro main agrees punchwalk is amazing. The point is that literally the entire character was designed around it so applying it to another character doesn't make a lot of sense

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

There is a reason goro has one of the few safe armored moves. Because everything else he has is not so good.

Kenshis full screen presence is still better than everything goro has. Is goro better than Kenshi?

No one is saying GORO is good

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Haha, we're good then. For the record, I think Balanced Kenshi is a good candidate for buffs. I just think the way Pig has been talking about it doesn't have any real depth.
And yeah, every Goro main agrees punchwalk is amazing. The point is that literally the entire character was designed it to another character doesn't make a lot of sense

Dude I'm be been massively busy and this isn't a priority

When I'm home for a few days I'll make a suggestive list and why w video examples until then relax and know I will make it

I've explained this many times on my stream and just hate repeating but I will make a descriptive video/post

 

[HoneyBee]

Oh interesting

Does it launch me for a combo?

If you block a 47 frame start up move, that's your own fault.

 

[Espio]

Goro is better than Kenshi, but the more downplay the more buffs I guess so whatever.

Kenshi's full screen presence doesn't even function the way it should to be a zoner. Goro at least functions properly as a footsies/rushdown/grappler hybrid, he just has noticeable flaws that stop him from being top tier.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

If you block a 47 frame start up move, that's your own fault.

Again read my other post

I trade w puddle u get up and full combo me , pretty fucking dumb

When I get hit my shit disappears and in possessed I lose a bar

Also honeybee how is it my fault when I was using bf3 and it being -53 and kenjutsu currently -46 on its bf3 move? What moves do u have that's this negative and hits high?

Your character has fucked up cancels, range , dmg, d4, etc

 

[4x4lo8o]

Dude I'm be been massively busy and this isn't a priority

When I'm home for a few days I'll make a suggestive list and why w video examples until then relax and know I will make it

I've explained this many times on my stream and just hate repeating but I will make a descriptive video/post

You just quoted a post that included me laughing and told me to relax. I think I'm good. Don't feel any pressure to take time out of your schedule and make a video for me because I disagree with your theory of video game balance

 

[HoneyBee]

Again read my other post

I trade w puddle u get up and full combo me , pretty fucking dumb

When I get hit my shit disappears and in possessed I lose a bar

Also honeybee how is it my fault when I was using bf3 and it being -53 and kenjutsu currently -46 on its bf3 move? What moves do u have that's this negative and hits high?

Your character has fucked up cancels, range , dmg, d4, etc

I'm referring to when I cancel to vortex swarm in pressure or I use it fullscreen, both of which there are options to beat it. If I'm just going ham on vortex swarms fullscreen, everyone except maybe Goro can run up and punish me for it. Canceling into it for pressure can be beat with armor, jump outs, advancing strings, etc. You make it sound broke lol.

If you're trading with a puddle full screen, it's cause I made a read you're gonna throw something at me and I WANT to trade with you. It's a good counter zoning option for sure. But it's not broke. There's plenty of ways to deal with it.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

You just quoted a post that included me laughing and told me to relax. I think I'm good. Don't feel any pressure to take time out of your schedule and make a video for me because I disagree with your theory of video game balance

That's generally speaking one reason I havent yet

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I'm referring to when I cancel to vortex swarm in pressure or I use it fullscreen, both of which there are options to beat it. If I'm just going ham on vortex swarms fullscreen, everyone except maybe Goro can run up and punish me for it. Canceling into it for pressure can be beat with armor, jump outs, advancing strings, etc. You make it sound broke lol.

If you're trading with a puddle full screen, it's cause I made a read you're gonna throw something at me and I WANT to trade with you. It's a good counter zoning option for sure. But it's not broke. There's plenty of ways to deal with it.

Generally if u throw a puddle out I can run up and attempt to throw but at this point you're recovered,
Or cancel run to sc which isn't a mixup . U block, get a free d4 check then into 50/50.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Again read my other post

I trade w puddle u get up and full combo me , pretty fucking dumb

When I get hit my shit disappears and in possessed I lose a bar

Also honeybee how is it my fault when I was using bf3 and it being -53 and kenjutsu currently -46 on its bf3 move? What moves do u have that's this negative and hits high?

Your character has fucked up cancels, range , dmg, d4, etc

Isn't that only on whiff? On block it's much safer right?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

@KingHippo i haven't posted my suggestions for kenshi changes but I assure you they're not including armored launcher

My #1 complaint that you hear from me is SAFE PLUS ON BLOCK Launchers. MOVES W NO CONSEQUENCE. THESE ARE MOVES THAT SAY "yo bro u guessed incorrectly? It's cool here's some +frames for your trouble so go guess again"

Kenshi is one of the few who doesn't have this, there's actually a real consequence for when he wants to try and mix someone up or start pressure or hell even zone

Make that particular list/thread and then we can talk, this thread is farmed from 2-3 people not the Kenshi players putting in tons of work day in and day out

OP was a fun read

Your number 1 complaint is EVERYTHING about kenshi

you will NEVER stop whining, it's not even my opinion, I've said it months ago, at this point it's fact until you prove otherwise, which you never will

MK9 days are over bro

Turns out this style of game is actually challenging when you don't have a massive balance advantage over your opponents


and yes, that is a good thing

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Isn't that only on whiff? On block it's much safer right?

Who today is still blocking balanced Kenshi high??? No one I play lately

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Who today is still blocking balanced Kenshi high??? No one I play lately

That wasn't even the question but I guess I know the answer.

I only ask because you pretend as if a whiffed attack with that much recovery is rare. It whiffed so you should get punished.