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General/Other - Swarm Queen Why the second D'Vorah nerf is unnecessary

Is the second nerf necessary?

  • Total voters
    149
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
@HoneyBee

I find your thread to be rather dull. After your character is normalized, you do not ask "Are D'Vorah's nerfs warranted?". Instead, you must follow TYM's tradition and ask "Who is to blame for D'Vorah's normalizations?" as you list the people whom you perceive as the culprits in the poll. Here is an exemplar that you may use for future references.
 
B

Bizzle PB

Noob
HoneyBee said:
D'Vorah got the following two nerfs in today's unexpected patch:

  • D'Vorah - reduced the cancel advantage after Pterothorax combo (Towards + FP, FP, BP) by 2
  • D’Vorah (Swarm Queen) - must be in the Bug Bomb (Wasp Grenade) held loop for 3 frames before you can dash cancel out of it
While I can understand the first nerf, I can not fathom why NRS chose to implement to second nerf. The first nerf toned down her main pressure string which previously enabled her to have a 50/50 after the opponent blocked the move. The opponent's best option was to take the last hit and get out of the pressure at a cost of ~4% damage. She no longer has the option to 50/50 the opponent because she was previously +16, giving her a 1 frame window to use her F2 (15 frame overhead) without a gap, but she is now +11.

The second nerf causes all of her bug cancel combos on hit to be much harder to execute. Her overhead starter previously had a 6 frame window and it now has a 3 frame window to combo into 212. Her low starter and her 112 starter (which is her best punishing move) previously had 4 frame windows which have now changed to 1 frame windows to combo into 212.

I think the second nerf has no real purpose besides forcing tighter execution on an already execution heavy character. I've gone into training mode for countless hours perfecting her cancels and now I'm forced to do it all over again. Her damage output is in line with the rest of the cast so I don't see why it's necessary for her execution to be exponentially harder.

While it is certainly possible to perform the 1 frame combos, the execution barrier to play D'Vorah has increased drastically and is certainly off putting for both D'Vorah mains and prospective D'Vorah players.

D'Vorah previously got a damage reduction nerf in the "Kenshi patch" which was understandable and acceptable because it didn't affect her core gameplay. I just think NRS went a bit too far with this patch.

@colt
Click to expand...
Yes. Yes they are.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
So after sleeping away my salt, I went into the lab and practiced the new cancel timing, F22 hasn't changed, 112 I get about 75% of the time, B1, well, time to learn this again lol.

Anyway we who were able to do them in the first place will adjust fine, still a weird decision though.
 
Anseyf

Anseyf

Noob
I don't believe people who are calling Honeybee out really read the thread. The second nerf doesn't change anything about the power of her tools. It makes it harder to execute.

Dvorah players are complaining (which I think is justified) that a difficult execution has become even harder with the risk of still getting balanced later on. And patching out the WGC completly out of the game would probably drop Dvorah to B-Tier imo.

All in all I think this is a half-arsed solution which was not thought through enough.
 
T

tigerija

Noob
Oh boy. I hope cancels wont feel clumsy now. If I will constantly drop stuff because of bad controls I will just switch character. I will still learning cancels.
But this sound slike it will feel unresponsive.

I am not against making character mode balanced if its too strong. But they should do it proper way then.

This cancel "delay" seems might feel very clumsy and unresponsive...

It like adding vibration option to your scope on a rifle... just to make it less precise.
 
Farpafraf

Farpafraf

Noob
Anseyf said:
I don't believe people who are calling Honeybee out really read the thread. The second nerf doesn't change anything about the power of her tools. It makes it harder to execute.

Dvorah players are complaining (which I think is justified) that a difficult execution has become even harder with the risk of still getting balanced later on. And patching out the WGC completly out of the game would probably drop Dvorah to B-Tier imo.

All in all I think this is a half-arsed solution which was not thought through enough.
Click to expand...

Bizzle PB said:
You must agree that she is no longer op.
Click to expand...
She is no longer OP because of the first change, the second one serves no other purpose than pissing off D'Vorah players.
 
Jaiyson

Jaiyson

100% Jamaican
Well no... the second nerf wasnt warranted for at all but the first one...well 50/50 off a run cancel ...that had to go!! Sorry @HoneyBee but Im sure you will adapt and still be a Killer with D'vorah..
 
dittO

dittO

Noob
Just tried her new timing in combos.
The most significant timing change is probably b1 wc 112
Everything else seems about the same. The easier links still fairly easy, and the harder ones still hard.

Aside from all this though, I do feel that making a character harder to use as a nerfing excuse, is...not...proper(?)
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
AK Smarrgasm said:
I was told to put this here.

Thats like 9 back to back 1 frame links. I think youll live.
Click to expand...
There is a blink system in Street Fighter that you can hit back (select) with a normal to hit the same attacks twice in a 1 frame window, so if you hit 1f earlier the blink system puts you in the right frame, a lot of respected players in the USF IV rewired their sticks for this goal, Daigo, Sako included.

Hell even my hori stick came with a button switch mechanism that allowed me to trade start with select so i could slink using 1f links, sadly MKX doesn't have that lol.
 
MadMagician86

MadMagician86

This One is unimpressed
So many ridiculous responses with justifications of a nerf irrelevant to the the subject at hand.

"This guy on SF pulls off this combo with like nine back to back one frame links."
"She was (is) arguably the best character in the game."
"Could've been worse."
"D'vorah is fine, Scorpion got hit harder for sure."
"I'm getting 2 frame links with consistency with Lao..."
"People complain because top 5 char was nerfed?"
"Yes. Yes they are."
"She was OP."

Someone please tell me why these nerfs were necessary. Provide details as to why an extra 3 frames on WC is beneficial for the meta, support it with reasons, and back it up with some evidence.
 
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HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
MadMagician86 said:
So many ridiculous responses with justifications of a nerf irrelevant to the the subject at hand.

"This guy on SF pulls off this combo with like nine back to back one frame links."
"She was (is) arguably the best character in the game."
"Could've been worse."
"D'vorah is fine, Scorpion got hit harder for sure."
"I'm getting 2 frame links with consistency with Lao..."
"People complain because top 5 char was nerfed?"
"Yes. Yes they are."
"She was OP."

Someone please tell me why these nerfs were necessary. Provide details as to why an extra 3 frames on WC is beneficial for the meta, support it with reasons, and back it up with some evidence.
Click to expand...
Exactly. For those saying that the second nerf is justified because D'Vorah is "too good" and therefore, let's make her bnbs significantly harder to do, it doesn't answer the question. The top D'Vorah players will still go into the lab and force themselves to adjust to a 1 frame link but my question is WHY? What does it accomplish? She still has the same tools and once the players put another 24+ hours of labbing to learn the execution, will NRS say, "Ok time to take it out completely."?

It doesn't make sense that a nerf makes her execution turn from 4 frame links to 1 frame links. Everyone that is saying that is a necessary nerf, tell me why. The "We can still do it so it's fine" reason is complete garbage.

If NRS wanted to get rid of them, they'll probably do another patch to get rid of them completely, meaning ALL that lab time to execute a 1 frame link is a complete waste. If NRS wanted to keep them in the game, why is it necessary to make them 1 frame links instead of 4 frame links?

If the purpose of the nerf was solely to reduce her pressure, that could have been done differently.

@Krayzie
@Blind_Ducky
@Everyone that thinks the second nerf is necessary.
 
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DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
Temptress said:
Your assertion that D'Vorah is easy to play when your main is Cassie Cage is somewhat amusing.
Click to expand...
i know play dvorah very well like 70% of the cast, and you want really say that dvorah is harder to play in many matchups ? Give cassie same run speed and maybe its will be ok agains zoners
 
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