Something that SERIOUSLY bothers me...

[SaJa]

If you see like 8 times the same char in the top 16 over and over and when you never see some other char it's 100% legit for people to start asking questions.

Also, a tier list can change with time/new tech/patch so it's not like a fatality or something frozen and I'm agree, it's not only about 1 player.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

It's technically hypothesis fighting. Seeing as the results aren't tested. They form a hypothesis and should then test the results repeatedly to conclude that their hypothesis is correct. Then we can establish it as a theory. After a good amount of time we can then call it a theory.


Let me give you an example.

1. Hypothesis:

- Sinestro is bottom 5

2. Test this hypothesis by gathering footage, crunching numbers on MU's, etc.


3. Gather results

4. Repeat experiment until you can prove it correct or incorrect.


5. Theory.


Etc. etc.


So, from now on; can we call this hypothesis fighting? It's not really theory fighting unless we are basing this off of some sort of results. My scientific jimmies are rustled.

#Kappa =FGC^2


I broke my back... It's spinal.

 

[Euphoric]

snip

This thread is meant to discuss and post tier information for SSF4 AE 2012. The old thread was getting large and was originally meant for Super, and then AE.

Updates:
-Added Itabashi Zangief's ten worst characters (2/26/2013)
-Added Justin Wong's tier list (5/3/2013)

What is a tier list?

A tier list is a method of ranking and grouping characters based on who has the most/least advantaged matches. Historically, this has been done through a matchup chart where, given two players of equal skill, each character plays every other character in a set of 10 games, and see who wins most. So in a "6-4" matchup, one character would win 6 games, and the other would win 4.

Tier lists are subjective and evolve over time. The point of this thread is to discuss this information.


What tier lists aren't:

-A popularity list
-A list of characters YOU have a hard time against
-A personal assessment on what kind of person/player you are
-In stone


As long as you at least understand what these lists aren't, you will save yourself a lot of headache.

All the tier lists here come from "organized" sources. These are neither my list nor Joe Blow random's. If you know of an organized tier list that should be here that is missing, please let me know and I'll add it.[/QUOTE]

Source - http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/173987/ssf4-ae-2012-tier-list-thread-op-last-updated-may-2013

Yay, someone said it. As for your question, why does this community think like that? I don't think I can answer it w/o making inflammatory remarks toward 90% of this sites members and the way they think.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

MKC is like the tiny town that just can't quit talking about each other behind their backs.

Why do you think SF Marvel and Tekken players just shake their heads? I mean.... poor KDZ. well... kinda.... cuz he doesn't give a shit.

problem is all of our "top guys" giving shits about the wrong shits.

 

[xWildx]

People need tiers to make them feel better about losing/winning, etc. I personally just play characters that I enjoy, it is a game first after all.

 

[Euphoric]

People need tiers to make them feel better about losing/winning, etc. I personally just play characters that I enjoy, it is a game first after all.

But this is a competitive site ;____________________;.

 

[187x]

AGREE.

 

[Atmapalazzo]

It pains me to say it, but this community can be very reactionary and histrionic.

I come from the Smash community, which is very smart and organized. They put so much work into their tier lists. They evaluate tournament placings, but in the scope of that character's populary, and that's just a small part of it. MUs, tools, frame data, and how stages affect them are all factored into their placings.

This, except maybe the smart part, since I've seen idiots both here and there.

For the matter of tiers, though they personally interest me and I enjoy breaking down the reason for a character's spot on a tier list, it's rarely needed. However, matchup charts are important IMO, as there are certain characters who will struggle immensely to deal with the tools the other character has. As an example (that isn't actually true but I'm tool lazy to think of a real example) Green Lantern has a difficult time dealing with Doomsday because GL has a need to maintain high meter for having access to MB attacks at any given time and still maintain a meter lead so that if he gets rushed down, he'll need to clash since he has no wakeup options, Doomsday however, doesn't need to create long, intricate combos to be played optimally, preventing clash opportunities from occuring. GL is still a better character overall though, since doomsday can't beat many other characters or fight them on an equal playing ground while GL has generally favorable matchups all around.

By knowing what I just typed above, you can now use that knowledge to know if it's worth picking up doomsday as a 2nd character if your main has an unfavorable matchup vs GL.

tl;dr: A tier list doesn't matter at the end of the day because it's Character A vs Character B when you play

 

[Son ov Timett]

Yep, it's a tard mentality. No one can grasp the concept of "outplaying" their opponent.

 

[Euphoric]

Regardless if the evidence shows otherwise when a match plays out, you cannot control external factors...human error and thinking is just another thing that can make tiers look otherwise...REO losing to ChrisG don't make Reptile S+

 

[Konqrr]

I <3 Tier Lists!

 

[Groove Heaven]

A tier list doesn't matter at the end of the day because it's Character A vs Character B when you play

That's what MU charts are for, someday we will hopefully have one for this game.

A tier list is just supposed to gauge a character's viability in a tournament setting. Part of a character's tier placement is how many times they're gonna have to play their bad MUs. There are lot of Supermen out there, so if your character has a bad MU against him, it will affect that character in a tourney.

 

[Duck Nation]

That's what MU charts are for, someday we will hopefully have one for this game.

This is something the community in general has to answer for at this point. Five months in and there's a lot of knowledge floating around, but people aren't bothering to collect and condense it into usable, accessible form. Almost every damn official matchup thread is still near empty.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You see a lot of this on the forums:

"Killer Frost is a top-tier character"

Why?

"She has:
-X
-Y
-Z
-H
(They list all her good attributes and the ideal cases for everything)

She beats:
(list of unsubstantiated matchups)
for free."

Then you watch Killer Frost go to a number of tournaments, maybe make Top 8, get beat by jump-back randomness. And then there are 2 camps of people:

-The ones that still believe KF is gdlk because they crunched some math in their head and she's supposed to be one of the top characters. They refuse to believe otherwise. These are the people that usually say stuff like "everyone is playing her wrong, X player doesn't know how to play the character, etc.".
-The ones that look at the results and go "well maybe she's good, but isn't as godlike as people thought".

Could the answer be somewhere in the middle?

I had people argue with me that Catwoman is an S-tier character and is as good as pretty much anyone in the game (based on their calculations/theory/mental matchups). If that's the case, shouldn't someone actually have to prove that at some point?

I also had people tell me that theoretically "You should never get hit by Sinestro's zoning". Well that's all well and good; but what tournament have you seen where no one ever gets hit by a MB fear blast, trait or a boulder, just because it's theoretically possible to block them? But maybe "everyone is playing the MU wrong." Stuff like that just sounds hollow if there is no real-world evidence to back it up.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

So Emo

 

[xKhaoTik]

For the record, I don't think KF is gdlk. She's top 10 but not top5.

 

[maximusroman]

problem is all of our "top guys" giving shits about the wrong shits.

so are you going to out these top pros or just keep it secret? who are the pros in the inj community that make us look bad?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

so are you going to out these top pros or just keep it secret? who are the pros in the inj community that make us look bad?

its no secret.

You don't need me to point them out.

It won't make ME feel better to point them out.... nor do I care.

Like I said... people giving shits about the wrong shits

 

[Fred Marvel]

tiers are important because this game is so dan matchup dependant but khaotik is right there are characters like Batgirl,Wonder Woman, Flash etc who are really good but havent taken a tourney or arent usually in top 8, while there was a Harley in top 8 today
thinking a character is only as good as their tourney placing is just silly

 

[Atmapalazzo]

That's what MU charts are for, someday we will hopefully have one for this game.

A tier list is just supposed to gauge a character's viability in a tournament setting. Part of a character's tier placement is how many times they're gonna have to play their bad MUs. There are lot of Supermen out there, so if your character has a bad MU against him, it will affect that character in a tourney.

My main problem with this is that an accurate tier list would fluctuate too often for it to be reliable, since new tricks and tactics are discovered frequently between major tournaments.

EDIT: More importantly, Tiers don't matter for Injustice since every single characters loses to the pig.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

so are you going to out these top pros or just keep it secret? who are the pros in the inj community that make us look bad?

insert the same maybe 25 guys that place, cause those are the only pros, now you know the list

 

[maximusroman]

insert the same maybe 25 guys that place, cause those are the only pros, now you know the list

so youre saying all the current pros are what charlie said? i dont buy it

 

[juicepouch]

But can we all agree Bane is bottom 3? I love how until NRS teased the bane upgrades that he is getting now a lot ppl saying he didnt need the buffs and he is mid tier

I don't think Bane is bottom 3, personally. I don't think he's worse than Shazam Joker or Lobo at least. Of course, I'm always willing to listen to the argument for his bottom of the barrel placement

 

[16 Bit]

For the record, I don't think KF is gdlk. She's top 10 but not top5.

If she only has one bad MU how is she not top 5? It would seem she has a top 5 MU chart?


I agree with Crimson Shadow, he's making good points in this thread.

 

[maximusroman]

If she only has one bad MU how is she not top 5? It would seem she has a top 5 MU chart?


I agree with Crimson Shadow, he's making good points in this thread.

since when does kf only have 1 bad match? she loses to bladam, gl, zod, mmh, and batman