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Match-Up Discussion - Swarm Queen Swarm Queen D'vorah Matchup List

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
So someone had to do it, D'vorah Swarm Queen Matchup List with tips and breakdown of the matchups. (Some are blank due to lack of knowledge on the matchup or variation)


Cassie has a great 50/50 game with good mixups, but we out footsi her heavily, and due to gunshot being a high D'vorah can neutral duck and just play the footsi game. Get the life lead and force Cassie to come running to us. With that said: on knockdown she goes to town, DELAY WAKEUP if you're balsy enough to try and wakeup. She stuffs us easily on knockdown. Typically I play much more defensively and wait for her to do a punishable or negative move, her high low into cage kick is -6 or -8, allows free F112 pressure and mixups. Her non ex flip kick is F11 full combo punishable on block, but she gets a 50/50 off a jump in and a standing combo. Try to stay away from the corner as she has one of the best corner game. BLOCK ON KNOCK DOWN, and if you push her into the corner she loses her safe mb flip kick. Equal trade offs. The jump kick on wakeup is only punishable if the second hit on the arc hits you on block. F11 punishable. She has great forward advance normals so when she runs and attacks, counter with d3, d4, or d2.

HollyWood: Look to use counter Swarm on jump gun shots, we get a full combo on hit. The nutcracker into her low high mixup isn't guarantee unless she mb's it. I typically respect the followup and look for a possible punish moment.

Brawler: Not as familiar with this variation.

Spec Ops: The MB missle hits as an overhead and tracks you. Typically Cassies run in for a low high mixup, I try to poke or nj2 them out of it and eat the missle. Or try to block the mixup. Normal missile hits low but can be f11 punished on read. Keep a half screen footsi game going. Just fuzzy guard in the corner mb missile mixups.

Ermac is somewhat similar to Cassie in that he has a very good 50/50, yet is very punishable if you guess right. He's a "go for broke" character sometimes. His teleport is F11 full combo punishable. His force lift from about half-quarter screen, on block can be run F11 full combo punished. His Armored force ball is slightly negative, not sure if it can be standing 1 punished or not, but guarantees a free mixup or pressure from us on block (and does little damage). Why this matchup is even is because Ermac lacks safe 50/50's opposed to Cassie, and suffers a very large corner carry combo when he guesses wrong, but doesn't suffer from the footsi game and has good plus pressure, has a very good low overhead and watch out for the low poke stagger strings. We don't out footsi Ermac as badly as we do Cassie, but watch out for the force slam (hits low). Try to maintain a Quarter distance with Ermac as force slam is full combo punishable at that length (Can be avoided with u3, cancel into run and punish)

Master Of Souls: His soul ball is full combo F11 Punishable up close (Typically does an overhead into ball) So keep a heads up for that. Keep a heads up for his disappearing shenanigans, if he does it in the air just wait for him to reappear and then d2, it'll beat out any followup he could possible do. Try not to jump.. it's easy for him to air teleport punish.

Mystic: Definitely don't jump... His tele lift beats up on jumpers. Watch out for the runs, but on block you can run punish from about a quarter to almost half screen distance away.

Spectral: I have never seen a Spectral Ermac in my life before.

Pretty solidly even matchup, we outfootsi Erron, we can easily avoid his zoning, his run is alright and easy to see coming so good time to punish with F22 or d3/d4. Slide is full combo punishable, and I'm not sure about his run in overhead drop kick. What makes it even is Erron's excellent 50/50. He has great resets and very fast lows and highs. It's essential a game of each other's pressure and setups. Who has the best reads? Has an overhead low that is unpunishable if he finishes the string, we can respond with counter pressure or scout out a back dash.

Outlaw: The most commonly used variation. Avoid the low sand bombs with u3 cancels, his low overhead into sand is 112 punishable or (with extreme execution) F11 punishable, although that link is very tight. I'm not sure if his low is punishable or not, if he cancels any strings into low mb sand bomb, he is guaranteed a d1. If he hesitates at all, counter d1 because sometimes they go for the overhead low mixup followup.

Gunslinger: I'm not familiar

Marksman: Similar to a cheap knock off of D'vorah, his gun cancels can be armored through I believe, and his Gun swing can be f11 punished. Be prepared to u3 over the low shot sometimes.

Not Familiar with matchup

I'm honestly not very familiar with the matchup, but Goro really can't do much once we put some space between us. The character is mostly based on gimmicks to be honest. His unblockable air jump and others are used when people don't know the matchup very well. Be easily punishable on read. Once we get outside of his footsi range (which isn't much distance) we out footsi him detrimentally. Furthermore his run is so slow that it's very easily punishable or grants free pressure on read. To beat out his air jump, just jump to the side or run and you can f11 full combo punish for 40+% corner carry.

Dragon Fangs: Never played the matchup

Kuatan Warrior: Ground pound can be avoided with jump or u3. Easily run punished or jump in punishable. Slow start up so easily interrupted up close. Chest charge I believe can be full combo punished. If not for sure 112.

Tigrar Fury: The best variation I've seen of the three. Actually has good pressure, his standing 3 I believe (which move kicks) into flame breath is a guarentee. Flame breath is plus on block, watch out for low fire balls and his overhead. Other than his kick move I don't believe anything else is safe into fire breath, look to armor out. So keep spacing and conserve meter to counter his pressure.

I'm not as familiar with this matchup, but just looking at the basics Jacqui has trex arms, poor reach, descent damage, and an alright 50/50. D'vorah has amazing pressure, great range and footsi, much better damage, and a good 50/50. Assessing this it seems that on paper D'vorah has a clear advantage because of her tools. If Jacqui had a more solid 50/50 game, this would be closer to even matchup in my opinion. Her overhead I believe is 112 punishable, but for sure grants safe pressure followup.

Shotgun: I've played Sonic Fox's Shotgun Jacqui a few times, and it's great mixups but suffers from the lack of range. Does, however, have a great fast advancing armor: yet it is F11 full combo punishable on block and does a moderate amount of damage. In the standing reset look to fuzzy guard often against the low shotgun and look out for the low starter.

Full Auto: I'd actually say this matchup is 5-5 due to Jacqui's zoning capabilities. I play patient, crouch, walk forward, crouch, look to block the MB machine gun attack. Keep pushing her towards the corner until she does an up missle, run forward and F112 pressure time. Swarm doesn't often trade due to the fast start up of her machine gun, but if she hesitates or walks back that'd be a good time to force her to block and get the plus frames to run in.

High Tech: Not too familiar with the matchup

One of D'vorah's very few losing matchups. Jax's pressure, stagger strings, armor, and corner game just overwhelms SQ. He out-damages her in the Corner and also has far better armor. Beats up on us pretty badly on knockdown and it's difficult for D'vorah to get on Offense due to her poor armor specials. Jax really doesn't have a reason to respect D'vorah on pressure, our d1 is 7f and hard to time a poke out of pressure, more importantly our armor Ovi only does 12% and is standing 1 punishable as well as easily stuffed by Jax. Big thing to do here is wait for a poke AND THEN COUNTER POKE. Also fuzzy guard often, that shuts down a majority of Jax's mixups. He does have a yolo overhead but that is negative and possiblye standing 1 punishable. If you crouch his superman punch you can 112 punish, overhead punch of his is also punish as well as his rising knee. On knock down respect these wakeups often.

Pumped Up: We can avoid ground pound with u3. His projectile up close is incredibly plus so respect the followup, you can poke out in its startup frames though. Crouch to avoid his projectile full screen, he can punish jump ins or whiff punish them really well with his flying punch and advancing normals. DO NOT use Swarm in up close pressure, way to easy for him to punish and not get hit.

Heavy Weapons: I honestly have no clue when to poke out of his dash cancels or what jails, but this variation has good pressure and good zoning. Jump over the rocket, it does a lot of damage on chip.

Wrestler: Have not encountered this variation before.

We have better advancing normals, we have wayyy better footsi, and we have better pressure. Johnny gets good once he opens you up with a combo, but against a conservative footsi orientated D'vorah, he's going to have a very hard time getting in. His zoning isn't good enough to force D'vorah to chase after him, and his approach (run and advancing normals) aren't good enough to beat out D'vorah's d2, d3/d4, F112, or F22. When I see Johnny run, I poke him, F22 punish him, F112 pressure him (if he runs and blocks to bait) or D2 the jump in. Spacing is the key in this matchup. The tools to look out for is after his nut punch fuzzy guard high low the followup. His low is a standing one into a low kick, his overhead grants free pressure to counter. His 11 is neutral or barely plus on block, so it's very hard to see if he's going low and completing the string, or following up with an overhead. Generally I fuzzy guard and then poke after the 11.

A- list: The dash cancel variation. If he happens to open you up for a combo, wait for the overhead string or his low string into nut punch, it is very punishable. I'm unsure of what can be armored out of, but I know his standing 3, I believe, combos into the overhead, be aware of that normal which comes out quicker.

Fistcuffs: The annoying special move where he does a series of very quick punches, popular followup after being nut punched but hits high. You can neutral crouch and poke out of it.

Stunt Double: Probably the best of the three variations, once he loads up a yellow shadow he can do some huge pressure. Overhead into the shadow is a frame trap, don't poke out if you're in combo pressure, if he mb it the clone comes down again as an overhead and is insanely plus so respect the followup. Look for the YOLO charges at full screen because it is very punishable and easily interrupted by Swarm.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
I haven't played enough Kano's to know the matchup

We have an upperhand in this matchup, arguably 6-4 but I'm keeping it as 5.5-4.5 because of Kenshi's zoning capabilities, armored launcher anti air, and unbreakable damage. However, we have a fast run and our d3/d4 will go under a lot of his zoning. And we have puddle which forces him to jump around and disrupt his zoning. Our pressure and mixups are significantly better than Kenshi's, and we have good ways around his zoning. Kenshi has to work harder against D'vorah than he does in other matchups because of our long range and threat of pressure.

Kenjutsu: An "ok" variation because his overhead sword slash is 112 punishable, his tele push is full combo run punishable from about a quarter screen distance away, and he loses his notorious zoning. Don't jump in and mix up the run ins with run in block or just run in attack to bait the tele push and punish. But we severly out pressure and mixup him, doesn't have much options to counter D'vorah. Definitely 6-4 matchup for us.

Balanced: His most commonly used variation, and has the best zoning. Keep in mind that if he overhead Slashes us, his tele strike can be jumped over and we run in for better positioning. His tele strike can also be d3 or d4 undered. Making it easier for us to run and d3 to avoid the zoning. I use d3 to get closer and I use d4 when I'm in footsi range because it'll hit and give us the +19 for followup pressure. D4 Swarm is sooooo key to winning this matchup because it gives us time for stamina to recharge after running it, and it gives us a 50/50 + good chip damage. Once you're in tele push range, look for reads because we can jump over and j2 punish the tele push... but he can Rising Karma MB anti air on reaction. Once you're in go to town with plus frames and pressure.

Possessed: I don't have as much experience with this variation. But his projectile hits low, his teleport hits overhead. The teleport can be easily d2 on reaction, and you can run passed the projectile on read. Look to bait out a farther projectile drop and then run in and pressure/punish. DON'T LET HIM GET AWAY WITH FREE TELEPORTS.

This bitch... oh this bitch. Kitana is good and very annoying. We do, however, have the tools on paper to beat her, but her zoning makes it difficult to know when to attack. Run and d3, walk forward crouch are both great tools to nullify Kitana. The key is to be patient, don't go for Swarm except on reads (it can punish a instant air fan but not a standing fan). You need to push her towards the corner and then when you're quarter screen distance away scout out the jump in, the mb ass, the fan-nado, or the throat slice. I'd advise not jumping is as she now has a great armored launching anti air. Keep going this way until you push her into the corner, and there you can start the pressure. Kitana's pokes aren't very good, her jump is loopy and easily countered, and when it comes to pressure just respect the d1/armor followup after her mb fans upclose. Other than that, BLOCK LOW! You really do not have a reason to block high unless it's against a jump in. Her only overhead is slow and does 10% I believe. Also punishable by 112. Her low combos lead to big damage. When she has xray look out for the low overhead fuzzy guard.

Mournful: The safest of all her variations, her shadow kick can be crouch punished but her projectile cannot be crouched under. She has an iffish mb move, but just don't try to jump over the jade blades. Wait to corner her or to F112 pressure the blocked shadow kick.

Royal Storm: The best variation of the three in my opinion. Best zoning, watch out for the fanado and the mb fan (hits as a mid). We don't need to respect the jump in float because our d2 has such insane range that it punishes the float.

Assassin: Least used of the three, but respect the charge when dashing in, it comes out very fast and can catch you off guard. However, it is full combo punishable F11. The perry isn't very effective because of how slow it is and how it doesn't counter jump ins, but keep an eye out for a yolo perry.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place on this matchup. Kotal is one of the few people whose footsies rival D'vorah's in some variations. I believe that his War God variation is 5-5, whereas the other variations are 5.5-4.5 or even 6-4 because he loses that armored overhead footsi that makes D'vorah think twice b4 she attacks. Fuzzy guard most all his attacks, his huge forward advancing normal that punches up is negative, we get free F112 pressure off of it. My typical game plan: block until he uses something negative and then counter pressure.

Blood God: Rarely seen, not much use for this variation due to the huge start up on his totems and lacks some solid pressure. I'd argue this matchup to possibly be 6-4.

War God: Undoubtedly his best variation and a solid 5-5. His overhead sword has huge range along side his massive jump in reach, it is easy for Kotal to pressure you. The overhead sword is ONLY punishable up close, otherwise he can backdash away or even mb overhead sword to punish your attempted punish. Kotal also has a huge back dash that's good and opens up a great whiff punish game. Try to encourage him to come to you and avoid whiffing anything against him. His string that ends in a low sword sweep is F11 full combo punishable, often mixed up with the overhead so stay keen for that mixup.

Sun God: 5.5-4.5 because he loses that great footsi tool in War God. We out pressure him, we out mixup him, and now we out footsi him. His sun throw is very good and he does get insanely good meterless damage off of it, which is why it is only slightly in our favor. Wait for the negative move and then counter pressure him to death. Wait for him to come to you, his sun disc has huge start up and is easily jumped over so his range game is rather useless.

Another very variation dependent matchup. When Kung Jin has his staff Bojutsu variation he has insane range that in some cases beat D'vorah's footsies and lead to bigger combos. However, his other variations lose a lot of the mixups and more importantly lose the footsi advantage, which is why we will have the upper hand. Universal notes: his overhead splits thing is very punishable if not mb and his air strike move is also super punishable. If the overhead splits is mb it is actually plus on block, respect the 11 followup and watchout for a mixup, very popular wakeup move by Kung Jin. KJ doesn't really have the zoning to make us worry. Normal arrow can be crouched under, low arrow can be u3 over, and we don't really have a reason to jump (unless on read) so don't worry about Anti Air Arrow. Make him come to us.

Shaolin: I really have no experience with this variation, but he has a basically full screen jump special that hits overhead, but is incredibly predictable and punishable. Just keep the distance and u3 over low blades and block the jump ins (he loses his footsi advantage: 6-4)

Ancestral: Again, not much experience. More mixups than Shaolin but more go for broke I believe and less damage.

Bojutsu: The variation that everyone plays. It is a very good character with insane range, huge damage, easy execution, and great mixups. His advantage: his larger range, his wider varity of mixups, and his damage. Our advantage: Our punishes and our Pressure. With KJ larger footsi range, he becomes considerably more punishable by us because we have great forward reaching fast punisher : F11. Ever staff special he does, the overhead, the low, the launcher, everything, we can full combo punish for F11. His NJP as well can be full combo punished on block. This matchup, like Cassie's I'd advise to play more defense and scout out the mistake that'll lead to a 40+% corner carry combo. Once there we can go nuts in the corner where we'll thrive against KJ. Limit your counter poking unless on read or response to a blocked poke, KJ NJP is the best in the game and will whiff punish literally any move about a quarter screen distance away. Don't anti air, his jump in will often beat ours. (5-5)

Kung Lao is definitely one of the best in the game, his excellent spin special, his anti airs, his pressure, AND HIS CHIP, really put him at top 5 in the game for sure. Possible top 3. Across the board his variations are all very good, save for maybe hat trick, and require very different methods of approaching the matchup. Always d2 teleports, they're predictable and very easily punishable (unless he MB's it). His mixups aren't particuarly hard to block, he has no low starting launcher, but he has a string with a low in the middle of it. If you see the string: block low. Otherwise block high to scout out overheads. We can anti air his jump ins with our bull shit d2, but be quick on the draw about it, he has a huge range on his jump in.

Buzz Saw: Great mixup and descent zoning. U3 over low hats, fuzzy guard most all strings into his low buzz saw hat, if we block that hat I believe we can counter poke. On hit just block high or low because he has the solid 50/50. Watch out for the overhead into overhead string, or the overhead into low hat. Overhead overhead is a full combo, but overhead into low leads to better pressure. Look to counter a hat toss with Swarm from time to time, just to keep him on his toes. On whiff he can hold his spin for a lonnnggg time, wait for him to run out and then punish. It's very irritating.

Tempest: The notorious variation and definitely the best chip in the game. Blocked hat spin grants a d1 followup, DON'T JUMP IN ON HIM AT ALL EVER. DON'T NJP ON KNOCK DOWN AND DON'T WHIFF. His mb hat spin is the second best move in the game. He will punish you hard core for either of those mistakes. The mb hat grants another true blockstring with his classic three hit punch, he also has a multi hitting punch that starts high and IS NOT a true block string of MB hat spin, d1 out of that on read because it does massive chip and builds excellent meter. I like to stay back and let him run to me, teleport is easily punished, his hat throws do little chip and can be swarm punished on read, and when they run in approach is far easier for them to make errors. Watch out for hat spin on wakeup. It is F11 punishable though.

Hat Trick: Never seen this character played.

According to @FOREVER EL1TE , this matchup is 4-6. I haven't decided myself but he has had huge amount of experience with the matchup. I'm not very familiar with LK tricks and what's punishable. I get blown up pretty badly when I play a good one but that's more because I'm still learning everything about him. His flying kick is punishable F11 or 112, I'm not sure. Block low all the time against him to defend against the low starter, although he does have an overhead special. On block it is F112 pressurable.

Dragon's Fire: Most commonly seen online due to the fireball spamming abuilities. We, thankfully, neutralize all that bull of the shit by u3 avoiding fire balls and Swarm trading favorably. Dash u3 or run u3 is a very god way to get in on Liu Kang yet avoid the low fireball. Be wary of the flying kick to scout out the run ins. Try not to jump often cause he has a great d2. His flying kick on whiff is full combo punishable, just wait until he lands.

Flame Fist: People talk about this variation being OP, I haven't played many top Flame Fist characters. I do know that his strings into flame fist followup can be jumped out of and NJP punished on read.

Dualist: The plus everything variation, I'm not sure what strings into his dualist switch is super plus and which strings have holes in them. But some of them are frame traps and I believe the low into dualist switch is pokeable to stop a followup. This character possibly has the best corner pressure in the game. Just block.. just block it all when he's in the dark dualist, also MB dark or light is supper plus on block. I don't like this matchup, possibly 4-6.

Mileena, much to my disappointment, is not a very good character. She's alright, has alright mixups, and is definitely annoying. But in terms of damage, pressure, mixups, and footsi, we have her beat. Mb ball and normal ball is full combo punishable (F11). Teleport is F11 punishable, and her projectile up close is full combo punishable, she ain't got much to go with. She does have one good low overhead string that's neutral on block. A solid low starter that's quick, and a very high damaging overhead, but the overhead is such a huge startup that it's easily blocked. Her other overhead is mb roll, and that on read is full combo punishable.

Etheral: Never played one before.

Piercing: The best variation due to her somewhat zoning capabilities and her great extra range. This matchup: block low and don't try to wake up. She has great options for stuffing wakeups. We can u3 over low sai, duck under normal sai, block the teleport and punish the run in. She has a very hard time starting pressure in general. Fuzzy guard most all her low moves to protect against the overhead roll. Watchout for it on wakeup and for fuck's sake do not mess up a WGC because you will get rolled for a very easy punish. Roll goes under F22 on wakeup and midscreen.

Ravenous: Slight less good variation as Piercing because the lack of range, but has more damage. Basically just use the same strategy as piercing.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
Another possibly top 5 character. Excellent mixups, good 50/50, and possibly the best zoning in the game. His advantage: Zoning, plus frames, setups post trance. Our Advantage: Damage, Footsi, CORNER CARRY COMBOS, and Corner game. Quan is going to win midscreen, simple as that. He forces us to run to him, he has great range on his overhead sword and he has insanely plus frames on his mb runes and builds great meter from his skulls. However! Once we knock him down Quan got jack shit against us, an easily stuffable wakeup with B12 or 11, and besides that he just got eat our mixups every time. Run block is essential in this matchup, don't let him get the trance momentum. Swarm will trade with an air skull but use it sparingly. He can MB trance us for a bad trade. Mb Rune hits low and is plus enough he gets I believe at least a d1 followup if not another mixup. YOU CAN BACKDASH THE HIGH LOW MIXUP ON REACTION. Very useful for whiff punishing. Sky drop, his only armored move, is F11 punishable. His low attack is 112 punishable, and his trance is run F11 punishable from Halfscreen.

Warlock: I don't know this variation very well, his portal kicks are very punishable on block but I believe they are a frame trap after a block rune or skull. Be wary of them, hold down on knock down so he doesn't bully you too much post combo.

Summoner: Possibly one of his best variations. The bat makes his low and overhead safe, after trance just fuzzy guard and guess all you possibly can, he basically gets two mixups on you, the low bat will generally follow his 50/50 and makes it safe. Fullscreen if you eat the bat, take the followup rune trap, he'll have a slight cool down before he can load it again. Look to Swarm punish the bat load/ Occasional air skull. PUSH HIM TO THE CORNER.

Sorcerer: Not much experience. If he gets his armor on, jump in and do Mb Ovi. It's multi hitting so it'll beat his armor and take one of his hits because of our armor. Watch out for the chip rune... that one has insane damage. Use the same strategy as summoner. Keep pushing him towards the corner so you can go hammmmm.

The other top 5 character in the game. Has great corner pressure, huge 50/50, frustrating pressure, and corner carry combos. He has a good njp, but it is full combo punishable on block. Timing is tight, but if you miss it you can at least get F112 pressure. His overhead is full combo punishable as well as his superman. If he goes low, then Raiden will typically followup with a njp, a poke, or a back dash. If you read the poke, you can poke b4 he does. If you read the NJP you can run and d2 punish, if you read the back dash you can run and F11 punish, good luck on the guessing game my friend. What's so good about raiden in this matchup iis his great wakeups, they make it difficult to do our knock down pressure. Utilize MB throws often to take out the wakeup game. However! His electric shock move and his electrocute grab are both crouch punishable. 112 punish on both, and on block you get free F112 pressure, except the air electric shock is neutral on block.. which is dumb.

Thunder God: His best variation. Basically just watch out for the lightning stagger strings.. because they do huge chip, build great meter, and are very difficult to poke out of due to the active frames of the move. Follow the same directions as above, I generally play more offensive in this matchup. Don't let Raiden get his shenanigans started and get him in the corner b4 he gets you in the corner. Raidens often go mid to full screen and chuck a few electric balls, use this opportunity to move in on him.

Displacer: Not familiar with this matchup.

Master of Storms: This is the setup variation, once he gets two lightning balls out it creates an electric line that leads to a full combo punish. A raw lightning ball is full combo punishable from the right distance so stay on his ass. Don't give him room to breath. Although if he already has one out respect the followup lightning ball because even if you hit him, we will get punished by the lightning line and full combo launched.

Reptile has great safe mixups that'll always keep us on our toes. His disadvantage is his damage however. His dash and low dash are both 112 punishable. I'm not sure about his overhead launcher. On knock down don't wake up unless on read. Reptile has great ways of countering wakeups or reversing wakeups with his dash. Generally block high unless you suspect his low starter, his poke, or his slide which all come out very quickly. Basically requires great reactions. His force ball close up is 112 interruptible. Don't give reptile room to breath or the chance to throw a force ball and start his pressure. Use Swarm full screen but try to be aggressive in this matchup.

Noxious: His most used variation. A majority of his pressure comes from his mid overhead string that leads into, often, his low slide or overhead move. They all come out so quickly that you just need to have great reactions. This matchup is about who can pressure the other the best.

Deceptive: Never played one

Nimble: I'm not familiar with the matchup

Scorpion was good, until he got nerfed. Now he's still good but not amazing. His wakeups are all full combo punishable, but have good armor, bait the wakeup on knock down often. His d2 is not very good so abuse the jump in, particularly the F112 WGC Jump 2 crossup into 50/50. Watch out for his low, mid, overhead move mixed with his raw overhead. Any string into mb spears is safe, but spear is F11 punishable on block. If you read a teleport cancel you can 112 or d2 punish. Scorpion's advantage: His vortex and safe vortex with meter. Our advantage: Our raw damage, his lack of good armor out of pressure, and Scorpion's dependance on meter for combos/safe vortex (ie: less breaker, less chance of doing anything once he uses breaker, bad meterless damage).

Ninjutsu: By far Scorpion's worse variation. It has great range and excellent whiff punishing capabilities. But has absolutely 0% threat outside his quarter screen footsi area, just a high hitting spear that is incredibly negative on whiff and block. If we block any of his far reaching swords we get free F112 pressure, I believe his anti air sword is either 112 or F11 punishable depending on the distance. Otherwise just sit back and make him come to you. You have no reason not to or to rush him down. Two things not to do: don't whiff anything, or pokes and don't jump in. He has a very good anti air move, it's just pretty negative. (6-4).

Hellfire: I have not had much experience against Hellfire scorpion Post Patch, due to the large nerf of 214 Fireball cancels. Now he can 21 Fireball cancel which I believe is still plus and grants a free d1 or other followup. But i'm pretty sure it can be armored through if he doesn't d1. Where Hellfire gets really good is his vortex, his flame on move does insane chip damage as well as added normal damage to a combo. My only advice is try and guess right, if they pressure look to d1 or armor as soon as possible.

Inferno: His most common variation, pretty descent zoning tools that'll try and force you to jump. If you watch carefully there is different animation startups for Scorpion's low and overhead minion. Be able to read them and don't get caught by either. Don't be afraid to abuse Swarm here, it trades favorably with minion. Otherwise try to work your way in because at about half screen you can sprint and F11 to punish the start up of any minion or spear throw. Up close look out for the Yolo low minion as an add on to a block string, Minion is F11 punishable up close.

I haven't really figured out this matchup and I am by no means a fan of it. Shinnok I think is undoubtedly a top 10 character. Possibly at the tail end of top 5. He has a good armored move, great footsi with his sparks, huge plus frames on his block strings, and a very good 50/50 that's safe. We don't challenge or worry Shinnok with any zoning, but I still like to keep outside of his spark range and make him run to us. I personally am not a fan of this matchup and think it may be negative due to his ability to our footsi us and easy start for pressure with MB sparks. Our advantage: his reliance on meter. HIs overhead may be 112 punishable... I'm not entirely sure.

Necromancer: 6-4. This variation just really doesn't work at all. His zoning can be run through, his overhead skull hand is way too slow, and he doesn't have any particularly good pressure and no vortex. We out footsi him, we come in and break through his zoning easily, and we out pressure him. Nuf said.

Imposter: I don't like this matchup because of the damn mb sparks in conjunction with his steal vortex tool. Thankfully he only steals our ovi move and that does little damage if he resets us. This variation gets the overhead teleport. Very punishable by our d2 so I sit full screen and wait for him to run in or teleport. Maybe more 5-5. His spark mb on the first one he gets a free 50/50, on the second spark you can armor out of pressure. Same with the third spark.

Bone Shaper: This matchup is my least favorite of the three because he gets good damage, has the full screen projectile, has MASSIVE range on the low bone special, and has an excellent vortex. I try and get on that ass as fast as I can. Quarter screen is bad because of sparks, but once I get past that distance I'm gonna go ham. Watch out for the mb low launcher to punish WGC into F22 or B1. 4.5-5.5

This bitch's 50/50 though... omg what a pain. She has a low and an overhead that is 12 or so frames I believe on startup. There is no reactions to either just guess. On knock down don't wake up, she breaks through armor for free with her fast normals. Her overhead, low, overhead string is 112 punishable, back dashing on wakeup is a great defensive move to get the whiff punish. I try to keep the distance and back dash a jump in or air dive for the F11 punish. Play that footsi game, keep her Quarter distance and at your d4/ f22 range. Up close she wrecks.

Special Forces: I.. I have no idea. That drone is insanely irritating and has great zoning and pressure abilities. It has a huge start up to call in so punish that if she goes raw call in.

Covert Ops: One of the most common variations for Sonya, the overhead carwheel is 112 punishable, and her strings into military stance into her low may be armor punishable? I almost always block low because her tick grabs standing opponents. Keep that footsi distance, up close she's gonna win.

Demolition: Never played a demolition character. ON pressure if she does overhead low into grenade just jump out rather than poke out. If you counter poke or try to armor through you'll be hit and combo'd by the grenade.

We have an upper hand because of our superior footsi tools compared to Sub. He has to take risks to get in, and we don't have to worry about his corner pressure due to our D3/D4/F22. Sub doesn't really have a good way to get in on us, his slide is full combo punishable. His Jump in is easily d2, and he doesn't have a particularly great forward reaching normals, his ice ball hits high (except his mb ice ball). He has a fast run though so be prepared to d3/d4/f22 to counter that run. Once he gets in he has the solid low overhead 50/50 off of a jump in. Watch out for the crossup jumps because he has a very very good d1 for that. NJP on read. Keep him at that footsi distance and make him run towards us.

Cyromancer: His most meter dependent variation, look to fuzzy guard his low low overhead move. The Hammer is possibly F11 punishable, for sure F112 counter pressure. You have no reason to try and rush him down. Make Sub come to you.

Unbreakable: Definitely 6-4 us because this isn't the greatest of variations. His perry doesn't beat jump ins and is incredibly punishable when we bait it out and has a slow start up. You can honestly do whatever you want in this matchup and still be feeling pretty good.

Grandmaster: The most common variation. SQ swarm will punish a raw fullscreen clone on read. It'll also punish clone throw if timed correctly. There goes Sub's ranged game. guess he's gotta run towards us then. Well if he pressures into clone we get a free d4 response that will get rid of clone cause it hits Sub. So we don't even need to worry about clone. Same goes for the corner, we can armor ovi on wakeup to hit through the clone, or d4, d2 to beat anything he tries to do against us. Without the clone tool there goes a heavy amount of his game style. Just be prepared to try and block his great 50/50's on jump in. MB ice ball is safe on block.

I haven't had a huge amount of experience with this matchup, it is either 5-5 or we have a slight advantage. Takeda will hop around and keep the distance so we need to run in and close that distance. Takeda up close got not much. Slow normals save for a good low/low poke, but he has a great b21 mixups with the low projectile. Just block high until you see the projectile block low. His classic teleport cancel pressure tool you can mb ovi through the last hit to punish him. B2 full string is full combo punishable from basically anywhere on the screen. Watch out for his NJP, probably the second best in the game. But has insane range and I believe guarantees a low poke followup.

Ronin: Never played this variation before.

Shirai Ryu: The best variation of the three in my opinion due to the teleport and the air chain. Air teleport is d2 punishable easily, mb teleport is F11 punishable. (Air teleport mb hits overhead, standing teleport hits low). The air chain is run F11 punishable on block, be wary of this tool when running after Takeda. Try run blocking to bait it, hits overhead. Just chase him down until he gets into the corner, there he has nothing to counter D'vorah.

Lasher: Never played against one or seen one.

God damnit Tanya. Damn you Tanya, eat trash and die. I hope you get nerf batted into the ground. Her teleport jump in is a excellent footsi tool, her teleport gets away from us and is hard for us to lock her down, and a Tanya with halfway descent footsi will be able to cash and pressure our dash ins. She has a good low starter and overhead starter. Respect the followup on wakeup because she has two great wakeups, overhead and low. What makes this matchup so bad is we chase her down for so long and then when we're finally in we got no stamina to pressure her. We can stagger string but her armor is so good that it can often beat our stagger strings on read. Her teleport and air mobility also nullifies our footsi tools.

Kobu Jitsu: Her blade pressure is just so good. Always fuzzy guard low into high when she pressures you. To our benefit the mb blade throw goes under us on return and we can d1/poke attack. She just has such insanely good mixups, great armor through some of our pressure, superior footsi, and equally if not better pressure.

Pyromancer: Equally as frustrating due to the back teleport ball throw. Dash block all day. The only trouble is when we actually finally get in we have no stamina to pressure. Focus more on Stagger strings with F11, 11, 113, and 2 to pressure until we get stamina back to combo/pressure. Her armor move is unpunishable and doesn't worry about F112 pressure followup.

Dragon Naginata: I don't play this variation often, Basically if she goes into staff anywhere near you.. D2 that bitch off her high stick. Knock that shit so far the poll goes up her ass.

This is all generally speculation and up to opinion, but no doubt D'vorah is top 5... arguably top 3.

Favorable: 7-8

Even: 13

Losing: 2-4

Unknown: 2

@Take$$$
@Vak Phoenix
@Zoidberg747
@HoneyBee
@Krayzie
@Blind_Ducky
@Under_The_Mayo
@ChatterBox
@TopTierHarley
@AnyOtherD'vorahs
 
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Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
I'll write some stuff up and my thoughts after EVO, or maybe write something up with bee on weds when he lands
 

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
Really? I feel dvorah at least 6-4's Quan. Yeah Quan can win the round easily with his mix ups but I feel it's in dvorahs favor because she can keep the pressure going.

I belive kano vs dvorah is more than likely a 5-5. Both characters seem even against each other. Kano just zones a bit much and dvorah is a great counter zoner.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
The Tanya section has some misinformation:

She does not have an OH starter other than a held F3(IaD2 in Naginata technically is but she has to be RIGHT next to you lol)
Teleport jump is not a good footsie tool after the patch
Her OH/Low wakeups are super punishable, not great. Tanya players go for the safe armored ones more often.

The reason the MU is in Tanya's favor IMO is that Dvorah's armor sucks so she has a harder time armoring through Rekka pressure when she could. She also has no wakeups so Tanya can go ham on her basically.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
Really? I feel dvorah at least 6-4's Quan. Yeah Quan can win the round easily with his mix ups but I feel it's in dvorahs favor because she can keep the pressure going.

I belive kano vs dvorah is more than likely a 5-5. Both characters seem even against each other. Kano just zones a bit much and dvorah is a great counter zoner.
I'd say at best slightly in D'vorah's favor, but not 6-4. Quan's vortex is incredibly good. And he has some solid pressure don't count him out for that. I think it really depends on who has the momentum.
 

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
I'd say at best slightly in D'vorah's favor, but not 6-4. Quan's vortex is incredibly good. And he has some solid pressure don't count him out for that. I think it really depends on who has the momentum.
Yeah. I guess I can agree to that. I just feel dvorah can keep the momentum going better.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
She beats liu, reptile and kitana imo.
I'm not too familiar with the Reptile matchup. But Liu I'm not so sure because he has such good pressure that he can really go ham on us once he's up close, and our shit armor doesn't worry him at all. I'd say 5-5 cause we have great footsi, but not us winning.
 
She beats liu, reptile and kitana imo.
She can't play the zoning game with liu at all. She gets a flying kick to the throat for even attempting due to the slow start up of the ground swarm move. She has to be in on liu to be effective. Its a debatable 5-5 or 6-4 in liu kangs favor. She does have the better footsies tho
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
A well written MU list, and a lot of thought put into it.

However, the SZ stuff is a bit off. You guys 6-4 Grandmaster at the very least, it's one our of hardest match ups in the game if not THE hardest. Also, Unbreakable might be a shit variation, but it's better than Grandmaster against you since the Freeze actually works as opposed to Clone which is a free meterless punish for you guys, and he gets the chipless aura. So whatever you do to Unbreakable you do much worse to GM.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Your match up synopsis of Goro as a whole revolves around telestomp being punishable as if that's his main tool or something. I don't get why either.

Goro's footsies are more than capable of keeping up with D'Vorah as is his zoning in Tigrar. Forward 3's range is obnoxious and his pokes aren't bad either. Hers are definitely really good though, great ranged strings, low pokes etc.

Let's not forget Goro's oki is really good and her wake up game is pretty weak/meh honestly. Am I missing something? Run into ex punchwalk can blow up pokes too.

There is a gap in forward 3, flame breath, which makes that section also incorrect. Flame breath is contingent upon conditioning the opponent with forward 3 and other strings cancelled into uninterruptible options.

Not saying it's even, he loses or wins, but if he does win or lose, the reasons are not what is being currently presented.

I'm not sure what the number is, which is why I'm not arguing one at this time.
 
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KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
Your match up synopsis of Goro as a whole revolves around telestomp being punishable as if that's his main tool or something. I don't get why either.

Goro's footsies are more than capable of keeping up with D'Vorah as is his zoning in Tigrar. Forward 3's range is obnoxious and his pokes aren't bad either. Hers are definitely really good though, great ranged strings, low pokes etc.

Let's not forget Goro's oki is really good and her wake up game is pretty weak/meh honestly. Am I missing something? Run into ex punchwalk can blow up pokes too.

There is a gap in forward 3, flame breath, which makes that section also incorrect. Flame breath is contingent upon conditioning the opponent with forward 3 and other strings cancelled into uninterruptible options.

Not saying it's even, he loses or wins, but if he does win or lose, the reasons are not what is being currently presented.

I'm not sure what the number is, which is why I'm not arguing one at this time.
Thanks for the info, I'll correct it on the list. Haven't had much experience with top players, but with the experience I've had the telestomp during pressure/knockdown to catch me offguard was popular. Sounds like Goro has to work hard in the matchup though, his zoning definitely isn't any good in Tigrar, he has to spend a bar just to approach, and it can be jump over punished on read. I still don't think it's 5-5 and definitely our advantage, but how much our advantage still remains to be said.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Thanks for the info, I'll correct it on the list. Haven't had much experience with top players, but with the experience I've had the telestomp during pressure/knockdown to catch me offguard was popular. Sounds like Goro has to work hard in the matchup though, his zoning definitely isn't any good in Tigrar, he has to spend a bar just to approach, and it can be jump over punished on read. I still don't think it's 5-5 and definitely our advantage, but how much our advantage still remains to be said.
This is why we should play. The point is, telestomp is not this core essential move that if you can punish (everyone can so it's nothing unique or special ) it's a big deal.

The zoning isn't anything godlike, but it is a compliment and definitely works perfectly fine versus D'Vorah. Nothing you said indicates either character has it easier or harder. A lot of your points are either something everyone can do or just inaccurate. He doesn't have to spend a bar to approach, that's just untrue. Having an option doesn't mean it is essential to use to do anything.

A lot of things can be jumped over/punished on a read like D'Vorah's ex appendage stabs for example, it's not really a talking point when it's not unique to Goro that he can do that.

it's the equivalent of using an argument of "so and so can punish throat slice on block from Kitana" as a talking point for the character winning the match up when it's something that everyone can do so using it as apart of your match up argument is pretty weak/tells us nothing really.

You're welcome to think what you want, but if you by your own admission don't really play any good reps in it and most of the points made are not match up specific or unique advantages or strengths D'Vorah has should say enough without me needing to say anything else after this.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
This is why we should play. The point is, telestomp is not this core essential move that if you can punish (everyone can so it's nothing unique or special ) it's a big deal.

The zoning isn't anything godlike, but it is a compliment and definitely works perfectly fine versus D'Vorah. Nothing you said indicates either character has it easier or harder. A lot of your points are either something everyone can do or just inaccurate. He doesn't have to spend a bar to approach, that's just untrue. Having an option doesn't mean it is essential to use to do anything.

A lot of things can be jumped over/punished on a read like D'Vorah's ex appendage stabs for example, it's not really a talking point when it's not unique to Goro that he can do that.

But of course I haven't had a huge amount of matchup experience so what do I know. I'd be happy to run some sets with you. Xbl?

it's the equivalent of using an argument of "so and so can punish throat slice on block from Kitana" as a talking point for the character winning the match up when it's something that everyone can do so using it as apart of your match up argument is pretty weak/tells us nothing really.

You're welcome to think what you want, but if you by your own admission don't really play any good reps in it and most of the points made are not match up specific or unique advantages or strengths D'Vorah has should say enough without me needing to say anything else after this.
Well shoot me for speculating, just stating that D'vorah has a far superior footsi game and Goro probably needs great reads or a bar of meter to push through it comfortably. I can tell you for a fact his zoning doesn't worry D'vorah at all unless he got buffs rescently that makes his fireballs mid, and with his slow ass run he doesn't get in for free. Just by looking at these aspects it seems that Goro has to work harder than most characters against D'vorah.

But of course I haven't had much matchup experience, so what do I know. I'd be happy to run some sets with you. Got XBL?
 

Espio

Kokomo
Well shoot me for speculating, just stating that D'vorah has a far superior footsi game and Goro probably needs great reads or a bar of meter to push through it comfortably. I can tell you for a fact his zoning doesn't worry D'vorah at all unless he got buffs rescently that makes his fireballs mid, and with his slow ass run he doesn't get in for free. Just by looking at these aspects it seems that Goro has to work harder than most characters against D'vorah.

But of course I haven't had much matchup experience, so what do I know. I'd be happy to run some sets with you. Got XBL?
This is exactly what I mean. Nobody said he gets in for free lol. This conversation seems rather fruitless honestly. Wanting someone to make relevant, match up specific points shouldn't be controversial.

Don't say "shoot me for speculating" when your points are either inaccurate, not based on unique match up specific tools she has or vague things that don't mean much. If you don't know, why argue so adamantly?

I'm not arguing the match up, but expecting people to step up their analysis and explore match ups shouldn't be offensive.

No, I'm not on XBL. I am on PS4 and will be at Summer Jam though.