Hot Take: Kameos Should Work Like MK11 Variations.

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

You could mix and match four moves from different Kameos, which would take up slots as MK11's special moves did.
Or, if you're 100% okay with rocking just Darrius or Shujinko, you could keep a whole Kameo in their original state.

I want to love this game so bad.
This is my idea to improve it.
Thoughts?

 

[chrisisnice]

People hated variations overall.

It would be a highly unpopular and puzzling move to change this given it is the main feature of this game.

 

[Juggs]

You’d be limiting the already limited Kameos. What they need to do in relation to Kameos is buff the bad ones/ones that don’t see much use. Stop nerfing the good ones, all that does is continue to make the game boring. Because it’s not different than the tier shifting you’d do by nerfing the top tier characters. The good Kameos get nerfed, then the next ones are up, then they get nerfed, and the cycle continues and repeats. To the point to where all the Kameos are trash and completely defeats the purpose of them existing in the first place

 

[M2Dave]

What they need to do in relation to Kameos is buff the bad ones/ones that don’t see much use. Stop nerfing the good ones, all that does is continue to make the game boring.

I would normally agree, but any reduced cooldown on any kameo attack basically results in the monotonous "string/special move into kameo attack and then rinse and repeat" meta that most players disliked about pre-patch Cyrax, Kung Lao, Stryker, and now Khameleon. In its current iteration, Mortal Kombat 1 is fundamentally ill-equipped to handle a large dosage of this type of gameplay. The game would require additional gameplay elements such as a universal push block mechanic, which would unfairly benefit zoning and defensive characters, so there ought to exist a universal buff to movement options for the offensive characters as a compensation. I do believe that the NRS developers are aware of these subtleties, but they are arguably so behind on this project that any essential changes to the meta are unfeasible. Shuffling the tiers for the kameos is significantly simpler to do, at the expense of a more dynamic and unique game and meta, as you implied.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

So how about a different game mode?

Have a VS with regular Kameos as we do now, AND an alternate version where you can mix and match certain Kameo moves together like the assist moves in the MK11 Towers to potentially make things spicier.

I am in disbelief on a daily basis that so much time and effort was taken away from the balance and design of all of this, just to be wasted on a game mode in Invasions that is literally so bad that it would not be worth jeopardizing my karma to say how I really feel about it. So, I ponder other ways that the pieces of this woefully unfinished game could be made more alive.

I am not going to insult anyone's intelligence acting like I don't want to live in a world where I can combine Cyrax's Net and Sektor's Rocket, because I absolutely do.

 

[PrinceGoro]

I would normally agree, but any reduced cooldown on any kameo attack basically results in the monotonous "string/special move into kameo attack and then rinse and repeat" meta that most players disliked about pre-patch Cyrax, Kung Lao, Stryker, and now Khameleon. In its current iteration, Mortal Kombat 1 is fundamentally ill-equipped to handle a large dosage of this type of gameplay. The game would require additional gameplay elements such as a universal push block mechanic, which would unfairly benefit zoning and defensive characters, so there ought to exist a universal buff to movement options for the offensive characters as a compensation. I do believe that the NRS developers are aware of these subtleties, but they are arguably so behind on this project that any essential changes to the meta are unfeasible. Shuffling the tiers for the kameos is significantly simpler to do, at the expense of a more dynamic and unique game and meta, as you implied.

There are alot of kameo move that cant be used as string-special into kameo on block,I think if they went in and made targeted cooldown reductions on specific moves,per specific kameo could change the game in a very positive way without having to fundementally change or introduce new systems.

Slight cooldown reductions coupled with changes to some specific move to make them more atrractive to use and have a purpose would do alot for the game without transforming it into a kameo spam fast.Basically a sweet spot of cd to utility ratio where you wouldnt feel like you are activly reducing your chances to win becasue you used punch walk instead of goro up punch in a particular situtation.

 

[colby4898]

I remember saying something similar as a joke when the game came out that the next MK will be Kustom Kameos and you have a whole team of MK characters but I dont think it would happen.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Yeah man, that's what this rickety ass game needs, six more characters to load in.

Jokes aside, Kustom Variations sucked in MK11 because there was almost always one optimal load out. Sure, the characters in MK1 are much more fleshed out that MK11's, so you wouldn't have to sacrifice your ability to confirm into a combo to get some mixup potential, but I do not want to fight Raiden with Janet's Air Punches, Khameleon's Ball Roll, Frost's Ground Freeze, and Stryker's Grenade Toss.

People already typically just pick something that gives them advantage on block when they autopilot into an unsafe launcher. Picking Goro for Up Punch means you gotta have Punch Walk, and I think that works

 

[M2Dave]

I think if they went in and made targeted cooldown reductions on specific moves,per specific kameo could change the game in a very positive way without having to fundementally change or introduce new systems.

I forget the version of the patch, but NRS buffed some kameos like Darrius, Motaro, Sektor, and Sonya. The buffs had limited effect on the meta as most players continued to use Kung Lao and Stryker. In fact, even after multiple nerfs, Kung Lao and Stryker, especially the former, remain the preferable kameos for certain characters. The kameo system is inherently flawed and unbalanced, and there are no solutions to fix the problem except shuffle the tiers.

Slight cooldown reductions coupled with changes to some specific move to make them more atrractive to use and have a purpose would do alot for the game without transforming it into a kameo spam fast.

Perhaps the game ought to be a kameo spam fest? Marvel players do not play the Marvel series and ask to see less assists, which are a fundamental gameplay element that the game is built upon. How is the kameo system any different in Mortal Kombat 1? NRS implemented the kameo system only to keep nerfing the kameos while releasing DLC kameos that do what the previous top tier kameos did. LOL.

 

[rifraf]

You’d be limiting the already limited Kameos. What they need to do in relation to Kameos is buff the bad ones/ones that don’t see much use. Stop nerfing the good ones, all that does is continue to make the game boring. Because it’s not different than the tier shifting you’d do by nerfing the top tier characters. The good Kameos get nerfed, then the next ones are up, then they get nerfed, and the cycle continues and repeats. To the point to where all the Kameos are trash and completely defeats the purpose of them existing in the first place

The best kameo moves in the game are and will always be if left unchanged, the ones that make unsafe moves safe. Goro punch, Cyrax hor. heli, Stryker nades, and Kano ball. Imo, unless they completely rework these specific moves, no matter what they do with the kameo system the competitive meta will never change. It's a problem they created by putting these moves in the game and ultimately, it creates a boring gameplay experience.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Kameos ARE variations...

instead of each character having 3 variation, the entire cast has the same pool of 20 variations. Its a universal variation system as opposed to an individual one.

 

[Juggs]

The best kameo moves in the game are and will always be if left unchanged, the ones that make unsafe moves safe. Goro punch, Cyrax hor. heli, Stryker nades, and Kano ball. Imo, unless they completely rework these specific moves, no matter what they do with the kameo system the competitive meta will never change. It's a problem they created by putting these moves in the game and ultimately, it creates a boring gameplay experience.

Yeah, I’ve thought about this more, and I honestly think that Kameos, while a good idea in theory, does not work well with modern era MK gameplay in practice. The idea of assists in an MK game is awesome, and it’s something I’ve always been curious to see how it would work. The issue is NRS era MK’s just don’t seem to mold well with assists. There’s far too many fck neutral tools in MK1 where the only weakness is that they’re unsafe, and then Kameos remedy that weakness. This of course doesn’t just apply to fck neutral tools. And I know assists in other games also can make things safe, it’s one of the utilities of an assist. But I think that fundamentally, MK1’s moves weren’t designed with Kameos being able to make them safe in mind. If they were, the fck neutral tools wouldn’t be SO good and have the only weakness be able to be accounted for via Kameos. I know I pretty much just said the same thing twice, but it’s a point I feel needs to be reiterated.

But I suppose that’s a different topic & discussion.

 

[popmaster501]

Y'all wanted an MK game with options and now you got it.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Perhaps the game ought to be a kameo spam fest? Marvel players do not play the Marvel series and ask to see less assists, which are a fundamental gameplay element that the game is built upon. How is the kameo system any different in Mortal Kombat 1? NRS implemented the kameo system only to keep nerfing the kameos while releasing DLC kameos that do what the previous top tier kameos did. LOL.

Exactly how I feel.

If you're going to go the Marvel/DBFZ/Battle For The Grid route, you need to fully commit to it and let it go full crazy, not periodically neuter it to placate the people who don't want to have to work harder to make anything work.

Fighting games are supposed to be difficult.

 

[PrinceGoro]

I forget the version of the patch, but NRS buffed some kameos like Darrius, Motaro, Sektor, and Sonya. The buffs had limited effect on the meta as most players continued to use Kung Lao and Stryker. In fact, even after multiple nerfs, Kung Lao and Stryker, especially the former, remain the preferable kameos for certain characters. The kameo system is inherently flawed and unbalanced, and there are no solutions to fix the problem except shuffle the tiers.



Perhaps the game ought to be a kameo spam fest? Marvel players do not play the Marvel series and ask to see less assists, which are a fundamental gameplay element that the game is built upon. How is the kameo system any different in Mortal Kombat 1? NRS implemented the kameo system only to keep nerfing the kameos while releasing DLC kameos that do what the previous top tier kameos did. LOL.

That is true and i guess it shows just how dominant the the key moves of kung lao and stryker were to still remain the most used after that patch.

The only kameo right now that gives a feeling of the kameo spam fest is khameleon and on top of it each and every single one of her moves is top tier.Originally when she released i personally loved how she worked because of the availability and enjoyment she brought to the game,with other kameos being so restrictive.But now as people optimized her,figured out which chars she works best with etc,she is a problem and outshines pretty much all other kameos.Its either take the cuffs of other kameos and its fair game or you have to nerf khameleon cause right now she is ridiculouse.

 

[rifraf]

Yeah, I’ve thought about this more, and I honestly think that Kameos, while a good idea in theory, does not work well with modern era MK gameplay in practice. The idea of assists in an MK game is awesome, and it’s something I’ve always been curious to see how it would work. The issue is NRS era MK’s just don’t seem to mold well with assists. There’s far too many fck neutral tools in MK1 where the only weakness is that they’re unsafe, and then Kameos remedy that weakness. This of course doesn’t just apply to fck neutral tools. And I know assists in other games also can make things safe, it’s one of the utilities of an assist. But I think that fundamentally, MK1’s moves weren’t designed with Kameos being able to make them safe in mind. If they were, the fck neutral tools wouldn’t be SO good and have the only weakness be able to be accounted for via Kameos. I know I pretty much just said the same thing twice, but it’s a point I feel needs to be reiterated.

But I suppose that’s a different topic & discussion.

I personally love the kameo system in MK1. I think it fits the game very well. However, it's not perfect. It needs adjustments that I'm not sure NRS is willing to do. The F neutral tools that certain kameo moves make safe is a major thorn for the simple reason they just don't fit well in this game, as you explained.

Some examples of kameos that fit this game quite well imo are Sareena, Janet, Mavado, Motaro, Sub, Scorpion, Frost. Generally, complimentary assists that enhance a character but not making the game BS.

 

[rifraf]

Its either take the cuffs of other kameos and its fair game or you have to nerf khameleon cause right now she is ridiculouse.

My hot take is Khameleon is alright as she is. It's a party kameo with built-in unreliability. They could tone down the fan lift a bit because it's kind of BS and she's golden.

 

[PrinceGoro]

My hot take is Khameleon is alright as she is. It's a party kameo with built-in unreliability. They could tone down the fan lift a bit because it's kind of BS and she's golden.

The combination of giving continuouse offenes and turn extensions with fan lift as well as making heavily unsafe moves safe/openers as well as giving everyone un reactable 50/50s on demand,while at the same time having insanely fast cooldowns is too much,especially compared to other kameos.Its like you are playing a different game if you dont use khameleon.

Theres also the annoying aspect of mental tax having to constantly track which disguise the oppoent has in order to be ready for whats coming.in the heat of things its very easy to just forget in which disgues she is and bam you got hit with an unreactable overhead ball roll for 45% into auto pilot fan lift/jade glaive offense.

She is literally unga bunga the kameo,auto pilot bs as the disguises roll in.

Either take the cuffs of the other kameos or she needs to be nerfed,she is a prime example of overtuned in her current state,also there is zero unreliability that you mention,its the same rotation in order with multitude of ways to manually swithc mid combo and in neutral,her switching in the current state is actually a positive imo as your opponent gets mind fucked constantly as to whats coming in the heat of things.

 

[Marinjuana]

People should stop judging the game primarily on the choices of characters in cash prize tournaments.

 

[rifraf]

The combination of giving continuouse offenes and turn extensions with fan lift as well as making heavily unsafe moves safe/openers as well as giving everyone un reactable 50/50s on demand,while at the same time having insanely fast cooldowns is too much,especially compared to other kameos.Its like you are playing a different game if you dont use khameleon.

Theres also the annoying aspect of mental tax having to constantly track which disguise the oppoent has in order to be ready for whats coming.in the heat of things its very easy to just forget in which disgues she is and bam you got hit with an unreactable overhead ball roll for 45% into auto pilot fan lift/jade glaive offense.

She is literally unga bunga the kameo,auto pilot bs as the disguises roll in.

Either take the cuffs of the other kameos or she needs to be nerfed,she is a prime example of overtuned in her current state,also there is zero unreliability that you mention,its the same rotation in order with multitude of ways to manually swithc mid combo and in neutral,her switching in the current state is actually a positive imo as your opponent gets mind fucked constantly as to whats coming in the heat of things.

I'm not a Khameleon apologist or anything like that In fact, I don't play her since she's not my style, at all. I say tone her down a bit. Glaive is fine, fan lift is a bit BS they should tone it down a bit by making it a bit more fair, and also reduce a tiny bit of pushback on Mileena roll.

I don't think they can just open up kameos and let them loose. This game is not really designed for this kind of gameplay. If I was a betting man, I would say the next patch will probably find Khameleon a bit toned down.

 

[kantboy2]

Every kameo should have the same level of cool down as Khameleon; let that shit rock and add new moves for base roster kameos. Watch how the pitchforks come out for EVERYONE. Heh.

What the game needs is a mechanic that allows kameos to cancel kameos for a while; have them do the same shit characters do in the intros/injustice clash in the background. Now; characters can add/retract time of kameo clash by sacrificing meter or save it for their combos.

Now; with no kameos, see which characters have a complete tool set and can play the game without kameo gimmicks.