Qwark28
Joker waiting room
feel free to provide explanations, considering this is a matchup discussion thread.
feel free to provide explanations, considering this is a matchup discussion thread.
joker has teeth vs bane.It's really hard to put numbers to a match up, I get that, but some of these I just think are wrong:
Bane 5-5? Joker doesn't have any two hitting moves so Bane can just armour thru. I would say it's more like 6-4 for Bane.
You have Raven and Cyrbog as possibles even? Joker loses against zoners, both of those match ups are 6-4 against Joker.
Deathstroke 5-5? No way! That's a 7-3 for DS for sure.
Catwomen 5-5? No way, her back dash is way to good. She can just back dash any of the Joker's cross up/ jump ins and her dash makes her hit box so small that Jokers jump 2 will just whiff.
And I don't see how Joker beats Scorpion, even maybe. but 6-4? No.
Other then those match ups, pretty good job.
Can you explain why Zatanna is even? I've played AK Black Preon 's Zatanna and it did feel dead even considering she has no mixups but not more than a couple of sets overall, I know nothing of the character past the basics.I agree with the Hawkgirl numbers... Also Zatanna is even with him
I don't feel he's as bad as the others, Joker can full combo punish f23 attempts with standing 1, he doesn't allow superman to zone at all because of his gunshot, same as harley. Only advantage superman has is f23 and corner damage which can be reversed if Joker gets a combo going, and his combos are 100% in the corner instead of 70.only 4-6 to Superman. . . .
*leaves thread*
Yes! That's one of the match ups that i play the most! With EMP_DarkCan you explain why Zatanna is even? I've played AK Black Preon 's Zatanna and it did feel dead even considering she has no mixups but not more than a couple of sets overall, I know nothing of the character past the basics.
Exactly the experience I've had, gonna add Zatanna now.Yes! That's one of the match ups that i play the most! With EMP_Dark
The only think you need to know is to punish her... Since Joker's projectile is so fast we can't zone him (Zatanna's game consist on keep away & meter build... So if we can't play a keep away game we must get in... Getting in with Zatanna Means taking a lot of risk, teleports are punisheable, she is safe IF she spends a bar on every blocked move -___- slow normals)
Just make her come to you (she most likely will do it with a teleport) wait for teleport & punish. She can also mb her tele but you can neutral jump it. Even tho Zatanna's meter build on this MU is not that good. Zatanna without meter is ught. Also trying to zone Joker would be dumb shince he can punish backwards teleport & rings.
being able to punish F23 is something nearly every character has and only really factor's into Superman favor if you try it. Superman doesn't need to repeat F23 over and over in you face to create pressure, one wiffed normal and you're doneI don't feel he's as bad as the others, Joker can full combo punish f23 attempts with standing 1, he doesn't allow superman to zone at all because of his gunshot, same as harley. Only advantage superman has is f23 and corner damage which can be reversed if Joker gets a combo going, and his combos are 100% in the corner instead of 70.
you have a way to punish f23, thats what matters, you don't have to do so, it's a guessing game where you both get combos.being able to punish F23 is something nearly every character has and only really factor's into Superman favor if you try it. Superman doesn't need to repeat F23 over and over in you face to create pressure, one wiffed normal and you're done
i wouldn't compare corner games when its nearly impossible for joker to ever corner Superman let alone keep him there
Superman's wake-up game gives Joker's Set-ups problems
Joker really has no space control vs Superman unless he want's to take pretty big risks, where as Superman never has to take any risk. . .ever
Superman's D2 is also a pretty good AA so joker has to space a JI3 to even make use of his air game, which will lose to a air to air Ji1 from supes or get trip guarded if supes just decides to walk back when you enter that space
joker has teeth vs bane.
how do you know joker loses? do you play joker? deathstroke is in no way 7 3 and you didnt even provide an explanation for deathstroke, catwoman and scorpion, how do you expect to be taken seriously? not a single deathstroke out of 4-5 ive spoken to about joker has said anything more than 6-4 5-5
catwoman can not backdash a j3 from up close, noone in the cast except BA can.
raven and cyborg are solid 6 4s, i ve played multiple ravens of differing playstyles and i play her myself.
you wont zone deathstroke with guns all day, youll zone him enough to start doing some low gunshots, when he does, dash in and get in simple. the fact that you think his zoning is the problem and not just an added tool of his tells me you dont know his close up game, he doesnt keep people out, he has up close tools as well.I do play Joker, I main him and Shazam. I've been playing Joker since the game came out. Deathstroke definitely wins that match up out right. Joker has no zoning tools, if you shot the gun deathstroke can just do low gun shots all day and win the trade. The bottom line is that Deathstroke just has more tools to keep you out then Joker has for getting in. Hence a bad match up.
When you play Scorpion you play his style, meaning you just block low waiting to punish his teleport, any match up thats decided like that is a bad match up or even. I would say it's a 5-5, but it's hard to say Joker beats him out right. After a knock down scorpion can just wake up teleport and avoid any of Jokers pressure, so you stuck with wait and punish, playing right into the Scorpion players style.
Catwomen I already explained, so what if she can't dash a jump 3, what do you get from that? She totally avoids any cross up from Jokers jump 2, which leads to most of the Jokers damage.
I have no XP vs MMH.I agree with Hawkgirl winning 6-4 versus Joker.
Also, no Martian Manhunter?
I have no XP vs MMH.
joker gets 30%-36% off of a j3, this is basic knowledge, jokers best footsie tool and you ask what he gets off of it?
I dropped Catwoman. But i totally agree on the Catwoman numbers as well... I used her for a very long time
She is too much patience for me ;__;Noes ;___;.
Yes, on the ground. You don't have to A2A to combo.Joker gets 30% of a jump 3? So joker jumps, catwomens on the ground, the jump 3 hits her, and somehow Joker gets 30%??? I wasn't talking about air to air, I was talking about her back dash, so hence shes on the ground.
You need to explain that?Yes, on the ground. You don't have to A2A to combo.