Who in your opinion is the best character in the entire game ?

[God Confirm]

"I'd rather take her 16% chip than eat her 50/50. A great round ender but nobody is raging about her spending a bar to get 16% chip."


That doesn't make 16% chip for a bar any worse, it just shows how insane this character is that this is the WORSE option that she can go for.


Show me the other character that has space control as good as B12, and an unreactable 50/50. You're pretty much left with Reptile. Now compare the damage numbers with equal meter spent. Reptile is doing like 2/3s the damage and less. Now compare the armour, Reptiles 6f Armor only combos in the corner and for much less than Cassie's. Cassie's is also fully safe 99% of the time. Nobody has this. Then compare acid spit and forceball, to iAG. Rtc.

There is characters and each have their own strengths, a lot of characters definitely do somethings better than Cassie. But Cassie has so much that absolutely nobody can match, these characters having at most one or two of the awesome shit shes got. I could make this exact same argument about Kung Lao. There is no individual option that isn't done BETTER by someone else, he doesn't have the best pressure, he doesn't have the best space control, he doesn't have the best mix-up game, etc, he just has extremely good options for everything. It's when you look at the character as a whole you start to realise how ridiculous he is. Cassie is top 3 without a doubt in my mind.

 

[JDM]

I respect Slips a lot, but damn dude, all those tools she has in combination with one another doesn't make her S tier to you? Sure some characters in A tier have those tools but not all of them, and adding her 6 frame punisher that also AA's easily puts her in S tier imo.

No one in the game has as many tools as Cassie besides maybe Lao. But at least his Reversal is unsafe :V

 

[Slips]

Just pointing out the bolded arguments.

If played correctly, b12 will never completely whiff, let alone whiff punished. The entire string advances forward. B1 has a really good hitbox, it can hit opponents who try to jump out of it, for example.

True, but most of those characters 7f d3's are unsafe. Cassie's is safe (-3f IIRC). Plus on hit, she puts you in a vortex condition again.

Agreed, but her OH is not easy to react to. Plus she can make it safe using a bar, which is not difficult for Cassie to replenish. Other characters dont have the reward Cassie has from that OH, which in her case, is a free jump in into more 50/50 city. Plus, its fast (around 12-13f IIRC). Her low is around that number as well. You cant fuzzy guard that. You can only guess. And i m saying again, she can make both of those options safe, by losing a bar she can easily get back pretty fast.

Regarding punishing down pokes with flip kick, it can happen in certain MU's where opponent's down poke doesnt have enough cancel adv to a special. Its situational, but it can happen.

Against AM's ex trident rush you could push block while he used the meter and both of you were in the same situation. You cant push block ex guns, only the string before them. Cassie wins in that exchange.

No, because she has, probably the best advancing mid normal in the game. Having godlike walkspeed, run AND the best advancing mid in the game, which is safe (only Reptile, Cassie and Tempest KL can punish b12 on block), leads to good damage and can be easily hit confirmed into a combo, seems like an overkill to me.

Just my two cents. She is extremely strong Slips and people are beginning to find out. Plus her normals alone, hurt like hell. 18% dmg from f33 and f212 d1+2 (or something like that, cant remember the exact commands for those two particular strings)? Seriously? And safe as well?



P.S: Fucked up hitbox.

P.S2: Out of curiosity whats your personal top 5?

A coulple things I want to bring up.

It takes her a bar of meter to be safe AND to get her vortex. Or she can use one bar for safety and loop her vortex but only yielding lower 20%. Or she can go for damage which will give her lower to mid 30% which is pretty standard for most the cast. It takes two bars for her to be at Batgirl status. Which in turn allows you to make big comebacks on her since she is so meter hungry. Not to mention the "Trident Rush" takes meter too. All her best stuff requires meter. Actually seems pretty reasonable to me.

The other thing that erks me is everyone creaming over b1. A lot of characters have long range mids that are 11 - 13 frames.

11 frames:
Kung Lao f2
Kano's f4
Cage's f3
Kotal's f1

12 frames:
Sonya's b1
Sub's f4
D'Vorah's f1
Ronin Takeda b2

13 frames:
Kung Jin b1
Tanya's f2 (feels faster)
Reptile's f2

Oh and Jax's f3 is 10

That's almost half the cast having fast long range mids (or part of their 50/50 lawl). And that's just normals. So not including characters who regulate footsies with specials like clone, whips, swords, armored rocks, hellsparks and lasers.

Her b1 is good but my God can we stop acting like it's the God of all footsie tools in MKX? I just don't get it.

 

[God Confirm]

The other thing that erks me is everyone creaming over b1. A lot of characters have long range mids that are 11 - 13 frames.

11 frames:
Kung Lao f2
Kano's f4
Cage's f3
Kotal's f1

12 frames:
Sonya's b1
Sub's f4
D'Vorah's f1

13 frames:
Kung Jin b1
Tanya's f2 (feels faster)
Reptile's f2

Oh and Jax's f3 is 10

That's almost half the cast having fast long range mids (or part of their 50/50 lawl). And that's just normals. So not including characters who regulate footsies with specials like clone, whips, swords, armored rocks, hellsparks and lasers.

Her b1 is good but my God can we stop acting like it's the God of all footsie tools in MKX? I just don't get it.

Every single one of those tools will lose to B1, it either outranges, outspeeds, or both. It's like another good step longer than Lao's F2 for example. I mean its Ninjutsus F2 tier. Footsies will only be as good as the player using them. But as far as advancings go, it's simply the best.

 

[NurzBenny]

None of those moves listed are as good as Cassies back1, outside of maybe Kotals.
Is back1 NOT the best footsie normal in the game?

...all of this Cassie talk, and no mention of Cassie's missile lows and tracking overhead for a bar lol. Character is dumb. She's not the best in the game, but A, S, what distinctions are we really making here? The list of characters better than her is far shorter than the list of characters worse

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

A coulple things I want to bring up.

It takes her a bar of meter to be safe AND to get her vortex. Or she can use one bar for safety and loop her vortex but only yielding lower 20%. Or she can go for damage which will give her lower to mid 30% which is pretty standard for most the cast. It takes two bars for her to be at Batgirl status. Which in turn allows you to make big comebacks on her since she is so meter hungry. Not to mention the "Trident Rush" takes meter too. All her best stuff requires meter. Actually seems pretty reasonable to me.

The other thing that erks me is everyone creaming over b1. A lot of characters have long range mids that are 11 - 13 frames.

11 frames:
Kung Lao f2
Kano's f4
Cage's f3
Kotal's f1

12 frames:
Sonya's b1
Sub's f4
D'Vorah's f1

13 frames:
Kung Jin b1
Tanya's f2 (feels faster)
Reptile's f2

Oh and Jax's f3 is 10

That's almost half the cast having fast long range mids (or part of their 50/50 lawl). And that's just normals. So not including characters who regulate footsies with specials like clone, whips, swords, armored rocks, hellsparks and lasers.

Her b1 is good but my God can we stop acting like it's the God of all footsie tools in MKX? I just don't get it.

No. Her overhead is safe but only if she wants to OS the launch does she need to burn the bar.

Her low string is unsafe but her overhead string is safe FYI.

Her mid is better than all of those except kotal. It's also hit confirmable unlike many of the single hitting normals you listed.

 

[DarkFire*]

IMHO I think Cassie is S Tier, but maybe not top 5 if that makes any sense. I think she's just outside of it tho, prob #6 or #7

But then again Idk tho because all the characters that seem to be widely considered for top 5 (Quan Chi, Kung Lao, Shinnok, Liu Kang, Jax, Tanya, Cassie, Johnny Cage, etc) have so much dirt lol

That's why I personally would rather just say a letter for a tier as opposed to a number

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

IMHO I think Cassie is S Tier, but maybe not top 5 if that makes any sense. I think she's just outside of it tho, prob #6 or #7

But then again Idk tho because all the characters that seem to be widely considered for top 5 (Quan Chi, Kung Lao, Shinnok, Liu Kang, Jax, Tanya, Cassie, Johnny Cage, etc) have so much dirt lol

That's why I personally would rather just say a letter for a tier as opposed to a number

Can't argue

 

[Slips]

Every single one of those tools will lose to B1, it either outranges, outspeeds, or both. It's like another good step longer than Lao's F2 for example. Footsies will only be as good as the player using them. But as far as advancings go, it's simply the best.

First of all I'm not just gonna take your word for it when the numbers are right there and could suggest otherwise. Some normals are farther reaching than Cassie's b1 but are just a few frames slower like Tanya's f2, Shinnok's f2 or Kano's Cybernetic b1. Or they are slower but also an overhead like Erron Black's overhead. Scorpion's which also crushes lows. Ermac's f4 is one frame slower than Cassie's b1 but it's also an overhead. These are all reasonable trade-offs when it comes to speed, range and utility. Not to mention all these long range normals are snuffed by d3's and d4's anyway plus you have to worry about high priority special moves before committing to normals as well.

Cassie's b1 is nothing special and shouldn't be considered why she is S tier in my opinion. She has to get through everyone's keep-out meta before even applying her pressure game. Much less applying her 50/50 which takes meter to be safe and even more meter to vortex.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

First of all I'm not just gonna take your word for it when the numbers are right there and could suggest otherwise. Some normals are farther reaching than Cassie's b1 but are just a few frames slower like Tanya's f2, Shinnok's f2 or Kano's Cybernetic b1. Or they are slower but also an overhead like Erron Black's overhead. Scorpion's which also crushes lows. Ermac's f4 is one frame slower than Cassie's b1 but it's also an overhead. These are all reasonable trade-offs when it comes to speed, range and utility. Not to mention all these long range normals are snuffed by d3's and d4's anyway plus you have to worry about high priority special moves before committing to normals as well.

Cassie's b1 is nothing special and shouldn't be considered why she is A tier in my opinion. She has to get through everyone's keep-out meta before even applying her pressure game. Much less applying her 50/50 which takes meter to be safe and even more meter to vortex.

And superman f2 is nothing because other characters have similar reaching advances. Got it.

 

[Slips]

And superman f2 is nothing because other characters have similar reaching advances. Got it.

Not when the mobility is shit. And d4's weren't in Injustce.

Superman's f2 was 8 frames. That's the 3rd fastest normal on the game including d1's.

The Superman f23 equivalent in MKX would a Cassie's b1 coming out in like 7 or 8 frames and the 1 magically AA'ing like Superman's 3 did.

Not 11. This Superman comparison is out of control.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

H

Not when the mobility is shit.

Her mobility is fine! What are you talking about!!!!!!!!

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

The other thing that erks me is everyone creaming over b1. A lot of characters have long range mids that are 11 - 13 frames.

11 frames:
Kung Lao f2
Kano's f4
Cage's f3
Kotal's f1

12 frames:
Sonya's b1
Sub's f4
D'Vorah's f1

13 frames:
Kung Jin b1
Tanya's f2 (feels faster)
Reptile's f2

Don't forget Jason's B1. It is 13 frames and insanely strong. Imagine if that string were on someone good like Tremor. He would be Unstoppable.

 

[Slips]

H

Her mobility is fine! What are you talking about!!!!!!!!

I'm talking about Injustice. Long range 8 frame mid when you can't move is a big deal. You can move in MKX.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Don't forget Jason's B1. It is 13 frames and insanely strong. Imagine if that string were on someone good like Tremor. He would be Unstoppable.

I see what you did there

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I'm talking about Injustice. Long range 8 frame mid when you can't move is a big deal. You can move in MKX.

Ok your right.

 

[juicepouch]

@Slips you mean f23 for superman right?

Anywho, brief caveat on Cassie: f33 IIRC is -10, Goro punishes with command grab

 

[AK XEN0M0RPH]

H

Her mobility is fine! What are you talking about!!!!!!!!

i think he meant mobility in injustice was shit.

 

[God Confirm]

First of all I'm not just gonna take your word for it when the numbers are right there and could suggest otherwise. Some normals are farther reaching than Cassie's b1 but are just a few frames slower like Tanya's f2, Shinnok's f2 or Kano's Cybernetic b1. Or they are slower but also an overhead like Erron Black's overhead. Scorpion's which also crushes lows. Ermac's f4 is one frame slower than Cassie's b1 but it's also an overhead. These are all reasonable trade-offs when it comes to speed, range and utility. Not to mention all these long range normals are snuffed by d3's and d4's anyway and you have to worry about high priority special moves before committing to normals as well.

Cassie's b1 is nothing special and shouldn't be considered why she is A tier in my opinion. She has to get through everyone's keep-out meta before even applying her pressure game. Much less applying her 50/50 which takes meter to be safe and even more meter to vortex.

You don't have to "take my word for it" Get into the lab and test some of this shit for yourself man if you actually want to learn, especially since the numbers don't seem to suppport what you are saying at all, only 3 other characters even matching her frames. Numbers aside, Tanyas has a long travel time over the distance of two hits, but the first hit has a smaller range than Cassies B1 AND a slower start up. Scorpions OH isn't even comparable lol its 15 frames thats almost half as much as her start up again, AND it has lower range, and gives nothing, 9% on hit into a knockdown which doesnt even guarantee much worthwhile. Shinnoks F2 is 19f ! thats almost double!! Ermacs is 2f slower, smaller range and is super punishable. JC's gets significantly outranged Kanos is close but still gets outranged, and doesn't even come close to comparing to what Cassie gets both on hit and on block, Kotals actually probably matches hers but thats it, he doesnt have any mobility what soever to make use of it like Cassie can look at his walk speed, and since you are someone to talk about both mobility and comparable options here, it should be obvious why it doesn't do the same thing for Kotal that it does for Cassie


Maybe you dont understand WHY the extra range / frames are so good, but it helps her beat out practically anyone coming in with a similar style move. hitting overhead is no trade off AT ALL for significantly less range and like 6 more frames it completely defeats the purpose, Eg Ronins OH, its not a mix-up lol and cant even be used as one at advancing range, your opponent knows to block high because you can't threaten a low from that range unless you are Kung Jin but thats another story

 

[AK XEN0M0RPH]

Personally, I think cassies b2 is better than b1

 

[Slips]

No. Her overhead is safe but only if she wants to OS the launch does she need to burn the bar.

Her low string is unsafe but her overhead string is safe FYI.

Her mid is better than all of those except kotal. It's also hit confirmable unlike many of the single hitting normals you listed.

Yea so her overhead either is a safe 18% or you spend a bar to make it launch. The low is even less damaging and you can spend a bar to make it and be safe. This all sounds reasonable to me.

It's not about comparing mids. Everyone can stop these mids with quick d4's. I'm comparing she's not the only one to have quick mids that all character's have to use quick d4's to beat. The recipe to beat her b1 is the same as beating a lot of character's best tools. So why is hers such a huge deal? Makes no sense.

 

[The Highlander]

You don't have to "take my word for it" Get into the lab and test some of this shit for yourself man if you actually want to learn, especially since the numbers don't seem to suppport what you are saying at all, only 3 other characters even matching her frames. Numbers aside, Tanyas has a long travel time over the distance of two hits, but the first hit has a smaller range than Cassies B1 AND a slower start up. Scorpions OH isn't even comparable lol its 15 frames thats almost half as much as her start up again, AND it has lower range, and gives nothing, 9% on hit into a knockdown which doesnt even guarantee much worthwhile. Shinnoks F2 is 19f ! thats almost double!! Ermacs is 2f slower, smaller range and is super punishable. JC's gets significantly outranged Kanos is close but still gets outranged, and doesn't even come close to comparing to what Cassie gets both on hit and on block, Kotals actually probably matches hers but thats it, he doesnt have any mobility what soever to make use of it like Cassie can look at his walk speed, and since you are someone to talk about both mobility and comparable options here, it should be obvious why it doesn't do the same thing for Kotal that it does for Cassie


Maybe you dont understand WHY the extra range / frames are so good, but it helps her beat out practically anyone coming in with a similar style move. hitting overhead is no trade off AT ALL for significantly less range and like 6 more frames it completely defeats the purpose, Eg Ronins OH, its not a mix-up lol and cant even be used as one at advancing range, your opponent knows to block high because you can't threaten a low from that range unless you are Kung Jin but thats another story

Dude, do you know who slips is? Did you really just ask slips if he doesn't understand frames?! wtf is going on right now...

 

[Slips]

@Slips you mean f23 for superman right?

Anywho, brief caveat on Cassie: f33 IIRC is -10, Goro punishes with command grab

Oh whoops yea my bad. Typos fixed.

Dude, do you know who slips is? Did you really just ask slips if he doesn't understand frames?! wtf is going on right now...

Yea I'm done. I'm getting too old for this shit.

 

[NurzBenny]

The recipe to beat her b1 is the same as beating a lot of character's best tools. So why is hers such a huge deal? Makes no sense.

Because it's the best. The speed in which it moves, the distance it travels, the normals it crushes (and that space it out and d4 it is a lot easier said than done, at times not even worth the risk), the fact that it DOES anti air, just fine.

This isn't some Cassie is number 1, demonstrative witch hunt. But the idea that she's just some ho hum run of the mill fairly above average character is nonsense.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Personally, I think cassies b2 is better than b1

I agree. I naively thought Cassie's B2121+2 was the best string in the game. Then I decided on Erron Black's broke string. But Cassie's b2 string is super, super strong.

Dude, do you know who slips is? Did you really just ask slips if he doesn't understand frames?! wtf is going on right now...

Lol. These young come ups.