myri
Time Warrior
I appreciate the props for my Bo @Kooron Nation.
I'll do a write-up tomorrow @The_Tile , it's late here and I'm going to bed.
I'll do a write-up tomorrow @The_Tile , it's late here and I'm going to bed.
All relevant and true until he faces a character that can special/normal/njp through the clone.Sub-Zero post F12 knockdown in the corner gets a safe re-clone and a 33/33/33 that is safe vs a lot of characters and some characters have to hold it, not to mention the ice klone in their grill so he will likely get 2 attempts at the 33/33/33. The OH and low options give Sub-Zero a little more than 40% meterless and loop back into its self, throw isn't as damaging, but once again loops.
If Sub doesn't want to do this he can use the close klone for better safety and mix off of hit/throw.
The 2 hit armor isn't as big a hit to Sub as you may think since most of them are unsafe. In MOST cases Sub suffers no consequences for respecting the opponent's wakeup, then attempting his mixup or whatever.
If you don't have meter, or aren't part of some select group of variations, Sub will kill you in the corner. Statistically you aren't going to guess right enough times to survive unless a total fluke situation occurs.
True but even if they have a move like that the situation is still heavily slanted in Sub's favor. If they wanna jump/njp after a F12 knockdown they will probably get fucked, and once again without meter even with a move like that he is still at a really heavy frame advantage so he still has a chance to mix, its just that those characters don't have guaranteed death, only very high chance of deathAll relevant and true until he faces a character that can special/normal/njp through the clone.
In particulars to this Smoke was a problem for a long time because he had an invincible wakeup that swapped sides but I found tech to deal with it so yeah, I totally agree with what you say. I think the only thing that really bodies this theory is Mileena's ex fade forward but I think I can apply a similar concept there as well, I just haven't looked into it.Instead of just comparing who's offense is dumber, we should look at "who doesn't have a counterpick to their offense". GM can't be top tier corner game when possessed kenshi and mystic ermac blow up any attempt at his corner game. Sorcerer's corner game doesn't mean much against multi-hitting armored moves like kanos ex upball (which also hits him out of his njp and is safe on block). Yet, nobody has a way to nullify BRC's restand and nobody has to get mixed less than someone else. So I would say BRC has a better corner game than GM and Sorcerer (just as 3 random examples) because there aren't counters to BRC's corner game like there are counters to GM's and Quan's.
The rest are kind of on the money but not Ajax imo nothing really amazing there. Cool mixes but almost all unsafe, and no oki after tick throwSorceror, Grandmaster, Spectral and Jax gotta be the S tier right? No order btw. Crystalline and Tempest honorable mention. Reptile isn't half bad either with the Nimble stuff, Noxious chip and Deceptive invisibility. These are just my opinion though.
What's the setup that does this and beats tech roll as well as standard get up? I know of one but it does fuck all damageCyrax in the corner is Block a HTB or armor out, some characters (sektor/kenshi etc) can't even armor out without being launched.
where is quan?1) GM Sub Zero
2) Tremor
3) TG and Displacer Raiden
4) DB Bo Rai' Cho
5) Jaqui Briggs
6) Demo Sonya Blade
7) Cyber Sub Zero
8) Hollywood Cassie Cage
9) War God Kotal Khan
10) HQT Predator
Those are the best as far as I know for the corner.
Putting Kotal and Cassie over Quan *smh*1) GM Sub Zero
2) Tremor
3) TG and Displacer Raiden
4) DB Bo Rai' Cho
5) Jaqui Briggs
6) Demo Sonya Blade
7) Cyber Sub Zero
8) Hollywood Cassie Cage
9) War God Kotal Khan
10) HQT Predator
Those are the best as far as I know for the corner.
I don't know him well to know if he has a good corner game. Sorry, bro.where is quan?
How does Mystic blow up any attempts at GM's corner game? On one hand he's able to full combo punish B2 with clone up meterlessly sure but that still leaves the door open for B33~shatter (which even if you read that, Ermac lacks an armoured move that can take 2 hits outside of Spectral to get through the gap). Unless you wanna chuck out moves that are -24/-51 on block on a read (I wish I was making those numbers up by the way) he still has to play GM's corner game the same as others up front.Instead of just comparing who's offense is dumber, we should look at "who doesn't have a counterpick to their offense". GM can't be top tier corner game when possessed kenshi and mystic ermac blow up any attempt at his corner game. Sorcerer's corner game doesn't mean much against multi-hitting armored moves like kanos ex upball (which also hits him out of his njp and is safe on block). Yet, nobody has a way to nullify BRC's restand and nobody has to get mixed less than someone else. So I would say BRC has a better corner game than GM and Sorcerer (just as 3 random examples) because there aren't counters to BRC's corner game like there are counters to GM's and Quan's.
Your lack of understanding about the character hurts, but it's okay, people have been ignoring this character's potential for an entire year, makes it easier for me to bop everyone.Sorry but getting hit by janky overheads that you haven't labbed and spending 1 bar for a restand with unspectacular hit advantage is not grounds for having the best corner game.
So Bo is out.
Pretty much nailed it on the head, best option is to block, but even then db1 is only -2 and it's totally viable to get a d1~db1 cancel afterwards for a full combo if people don't get their own low poke at the right moment.Yeah maybe it is DB Bo, this is my very short take on him after reading Myri's writeup.
He forces you to guess 1 or 2 mixups every time he puts you in a mixup situation, which lead to high damage and are always safe. He has even more shenanigans if he has meter but after you guess the mixups it's then your turn and you can use that opportunity to escape, unless he's spent bar on the ExFart, but that is probably MU dependant.
However it seems he may struggle to keep the corner after you block those first 1 or 2 mixups as the only way to meterlessly stay plus is to end strings in a fart which leaves a massive gap and IIRC can be interrupted with fast normals off most strings on reaction as long as you're looking out for it.
I'm probably just as biased towards Quan as you are with Bo but one thing Quan seems to do better is keep his turn. Whether it's in Sorcerer or Summoner he has the variation specific tools which help him keep his turn and MbRune which makes anything plus as long as you have a bar. Their damage is pretty similar tbh, in fact Summoner may get more from a 1 bar combo off a 50/50 whereas Sorcerers damage isn't quite as gnarly but he can spend a bar to guarantee the armor portal back out after the combo which is the most important thing. If the armor portal is out then you're fucked.
DB Bo is maybe number but I think Quans corner game is hella underrated and his two variations take up number 2 and 3 easily, with GM, Tremor, HQT, and maybe Jacqui and Cyrax competing for the spots beneath them.
In that regard Sub is defintely the best, Bo does great corner carry too though. Quan seems like his corner carry is quite poor in comparison.Another thing to consider people ain't thinking about is how easy for the char to get the opponent to the corner