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Question - Shinnok What's The Communities Opinion On Shinnok?

Give me your opinions

  • Total voters
    180
D_Matt_Ma

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
Wow, I can't believe how many people are understating how much help this guy needs. The best way to describe how much this guy sucks is by asking one question:

What is Shinnok better at than another character?

Seriously, what is his strength? It's not speed, damage, safety, properties, or range. I'm not comparing him to the cast. I'm comparing to every individual character. What can this guy do that ANY character can't do better? Personally, I think this guy is the weakest in every category in the game. What is the point of this character other than looking like a boss in his design :)
 
Vilén

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
I feel like hell sparks should have bad frames but tons of pushback.

Necromancer needs better tracking on flick. Ground hand kinda sucks too, right? It bothers me that the move is only there to be meter burned in a combo. You don't get anything real for it over distance either and that's pretty bad. Falling hand is just... like seriously wtf.

Boneshaper breaks my heart all day. This style should be a footsie monster but it isn't.

I just don't get this guy. It's like a toy that came out of the box broken.

I just want ONE fucking zoner that doesn't suck. I feel like this guy could be in the running after a buff just in the interest of justice, seeing as how it's sort of plain as day that this character is clearly not even finished to the point making him reasonably competitive would be like getting a DLC character.
 
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Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
The reason I haven't posted buff suggestions is because all he needs is 2 being an overhead starter, and less startup/recovery on a lot of his specials. This plus fixing necromancer would be all he needs to be viable IMO. He definitely needs help in other ways though, but he may be fine with just these buffs.
 
R

Reptile_Style

Noob
Fix his tracking specials in necromancer and give him a viable overhead. Maybe make his summon fiend a low? look at scorpions low minion summon, full combo without ex (and not just some bs bounce juggle) and better startup. Maybe make it safe so his strings wouldnt be so bad.
 
H

Helter Skelter

CHIPPINGxTRAPPINGxZONING
D_Matt_Ma said:
Wow, I can't believe how many people are understating how much help this guy needs. The best way to describe how much this guy sucks is by asking one question:

What is Shinnok better at than another character?

Seriously, what is his strength? It's not speed, damage, safety, properties, or range. I'm not comparing him to the cast. I'm comparing to every individual character. What can this guy do that ANY character can't do better? Personally, I think this guy is the weakest in every category in the game. What is the point of this character other than looking like a boss in his design :)
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That's exactly my point..

People keep looking at the character in a vacuum and it's really depressing.

He's a bad character because he does everything worse than the rest of the cast.

From what it seems, NRS designed him to control space and he completely sucks at it.

Also, look at his toolset or the amount of innovation gone into making his moves. Hell Blast is literally the biggest example of this. At which point will you every want or need to use Hell Blast outside of a fast anti-air that costs a further bar to make truly useful?

His damage even with meter is appalling. I can deal with that.

His buttons aren't even particularly fast, strong or safe.

I find myself using Bone Shaper all the time and have been resigned to using his B3 string over, and over, and over again because it's his only safe hit confirmable string.

His mixup is more risky for the Shinnok player than it is for the opponent, because doing a mixup doesn't do enough damage for the risk involved. I literally do 20% projectile combos, so that I can't be combo broken out of my attempts to do 25%-30%.

The only way to get decent damage is after a non comboable trance which still requires an unsafe approach to hit them.

What I think he needs:

-Hell Sparks to be -6/-7 if the third hit is blocked. Which is unsafe enough to not be spammed but still mostly unpunishable.

-2,2 to hit Overhead, Mid.

-F2,2 and 3,1,2 to have their hitboxes adjusted.

-All of the Necromancer moves to have hitboxes and tracking overhauled.

-Lastly, make Hell Blast useful. It's in every variation and it pointless in all of them. For the love of God just make it work like Shang Tsung's Ground Eruption. Change the data and damage to match Hell Sparks.

If the character is gonna do such low damage, make his gimmick unbreakable combos. Having Ground Eruption would let him extend combo, create frame traps, augment his zoning, allow him to space his regular Hell Sparks more and most importantly make this move have a legitimate use considering I have to pay one bar of meter to use it.

This character is so rushed and more and more people are going to become aware of it.
 
D_Matt_Ma

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
We could also make the hell spark meter burn come out on block too... make that safe or +. Same with shoulder charge that is meter burned. Make it a mind game that is safe on block that takes meter. I'll take that to prevent brain dead ness.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Bugman said:
Even tho I main Shinnok in made top 8 with him on ESL, He still the worst characters in the game hands down. The only thing that Shinnok need a buff is his 312 combos need a mixup why because his 3 look like it hit low attack but it a mid need to be a low buff. His 1 look like a overhead attack but it a mid attack need a overhead buff. that the only things that need a buff. Other then that he fine.
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Can we have a character that is viable without braindead mixups into vortex please?
As I've said before, average match already looks like combo exhibition video.
 
PeNNyw1ZE_TDC

PeNNyw1ZE_TDC

Master level Noob
He's my favorite but he feels unfinished. He's easily the worst in the game and I hope NR gives him some attention when they do a balance change.
 
Groove Heaven

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
I've checked him out a little and didn't see much there. Every Shinnok I've played I've beaten by just running in like an idiot because his zoning tools are so weak.

I mean, yeah, there could be something we're not seeing, but I think lower tier characters are usually kind of easy to pick out. He seems bad right now and I have no clue who's trying to push him to the next level but time will tell.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Pandamoniumz said:
That is the core of what MK is as a series though.
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I kinda disagree. Yes, MK requires you to convert pretty much off anything, however, it was rare to see very little besides people doing two starters into combo sitting at one place with nothing else going on. Neutral had pretty considerable role in MK9.
 
Pandamoniumz

Pandamoniumz

Don't Listen, Save Money
Barrogh said:
I kinda disagree. Yes, MK requires you to convert pretty much off anything, however, it was rare to see very little besides people doing two starters into combo sitting at one place with nothing else going on. Neutral had pretty considerable role in MK9.
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Eh, kinda disagree with that. Think the neutral in mk9 is a lot of nostalgia through rose tinted glasses. But this prolly isnt the best place for that. I was hoping to play shinnok as neutral has always been the most fun part of fighting games for me, but the mid range powerhouse I was looking for in bone shaper didn't really pan out. It's a damn shame.
 
D_Matt_Ma

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
Barrogh said:
I kinda disagree. Yes, MK requires you to convert pretty much off anything, however, it was rare to see very little besides people doing two starters into combo sitting at one place with nothing else going on. Neutral had pretty considerable role in MK9.
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I agree. I don't think he needs overhead starter to be competitive. Character however that don't have overhead starters and rely on throw mix-ups usually have safety behind them or crazy high damage. He has neither. I'll take either. Give me a high risk garbage hitbox necro zoner; or all in low mix-up boneshaper; or 50% bonus Imposter... OR give me the fast start-up and safe amulet strike; or the safe hellsparks; or the safe shoulders.

GIVE US SOMETHING! ANYTHING! PLEASE NRS!
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Pandamoniumz said:
Eh, kinda disagree with that. Think the neutral in mk9 is a lot of nostalgia through rose tinted glasses. But this prolly isnt the best place for that. I was hoping to play shinnok as neutral has always been the most fun part of fighting games for me, but the mid range powerhouse I was looking for in bone shaper didn't really pan out. It's a damn shame.
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That depends on characters I guess. Some of them didn't really care back in MK9.
Now that MKX is out, some of its universal stuff feels like those MUs from MK9...
When Shinnok was shown, he looked like that type of character who would be kinda ok in more slow-paced environment (hence my memories about MK9... or whatever I was playing with my limited personal exposure to above average level of play). Obviously, we didn't know frame data back then and I guess not many could add 2 and 2 from everything that was shown to see how much stuff he will have to deal with. Doesn't help that we haven't seen a lot or running as well and consequences weren't clear to everyone.

People were posting about how run combos were going to be hype...
Lol.
 
Ojpaxton

Ojpaxton

Noob
Bugman said:
Naw I don't think hell sparks need a buff. That will be to braindead and op.
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Lol In a month when sonya players are running up and getting full combos on you for just building meter you'll wanna buff( oh and other toons to) It doesn't need to be super safe but like -10 -13 , but I agree with your first post he really doesn't need buffs, aanyone saying he lacks space control and footsies is playing him wrong his movement and back dash are amazing.
 
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