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General/Other - Summoner VS Quan Chi bat Vortex training

The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Tom Brady said:
1. SZ has no nearly infinite block pressure on Quan Chi
2. I'm not in disagreement that anything that is a pseudo unblockable should probably be looked it if there is no way to avoid it besides get lucky and block it.
3. I'm not calling for any Quan nerfs, just doing a video series as I attempt to lab in defense of it.
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1. I know. When he has Quan in the corner Quan has to take huge risks to try and escape though. Just a point, I understand its not on the same level as this though.
2. Yeah I think that would be the best way of dealing with it, just make the unblockable protection last a few more frames then its all sorted.
3. My bad, I admire that you're still trying to help people level up despite how much you probably hate the game right now.
 
Predannok

Predannok

Noob
Tom Brady said:

Also updated the OP with this last lab vid

and correction, i mis-spoke when I said after stand 4 its low first, I meant the overhead hits first.
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What they meant with the gap in mb rune is it has a gap when canceled from anything else but : f212 ,b2 ,B1 ,14 ,S4 , S3, so the low b324(which by it self has a gap if quan isn't 100% point blank or if quan trys to do it after a run) into mb rune at any point is armorable/backdashable, same goes for 21.

 
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Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
Predannok said:
What they meant with the gap in mb rune is it has a gap when canceled from anything else but : f212 ,b2 ,B1 ,14 ,S4 , S3, so the low b324(which by it self has a gap if quan isn't 100% point blank or if quan trys to do it after a run) into mb rune at any point is armorable/backdashable, same goes for 21.

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No because the guy said that he was mistaken as he thought there was a gap in the ex rune itself.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
The low bat shouldn't hit low period, it has a good enough hitbox and frame adv. to still have strong utility in every area on screen. That way he'll still have retarded sinestro rushdown but with 50/50s.

It's a shame noone has just mastered this and abused it in tournament when people like fox are winning that much cash.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I like that a Quan Chi main made a response to this, that was pretty insightful. Thanks for that, shout outs to Dink for being helpful, albeit it a little sassy.

Really though, what world are you living in where you think your low bat/ OH is remotely close to Brady's example? You're either lying to us and it's insulting, or lying to yourself and it's a little embarrassing to watch.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
Any1 who thinks this is remotely okay, or use the "but quan hasn't won any majors yet" really loses all credibility. The right player could learn this go into a tournament and do it over and over again to win. Without meter too if they have faith in their timing. It's complete bullshit, and the games method of fixing it by some rule of hitting simulataneously causing it to go away is stupid because it's a frame to frame thing, it's dumb.
 
Predannok

Predannok

Noob
Peckapowa said:
Any1 who thinks this is remotely okay, or use the "but quan hasn't won any majors yet" really loses all credibility. The right player could learn this go into a tournament and do it over and over again to win. Without meter too if they have faith in their timing. It's complete bullshit, and the games method of fixing it by some rule of hitting simulataneously causing it to go away is stupid because it's a frame to frame thing, it's dumb.
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But but there are no unblockables in mkx. The games flawless design has failsafe mechs just like ex ice clone.

Jokes aside they never fixed cyraxs resets why Do u think they will fix this if they haven't even fixed Breathning hit boxes, Mids and highs whiffing, kano parries not working properl or half of the cast poking through the ice clone? Theyd probably just say it works as intended.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
What people fail to realise is that the vortex is all he has.

He doesn't have super safe strings and stagger pressure.

He doesn't have super fast pokes and mobility.

Strings that whiff on other, smaller hitbox characters jail on Quan.

He HAS to go for the vortex every time, because what else is he supposed to do?

I think that, because things like Dragonfire Kang or Kobu Tanya exist that jail him indefinitely, he should have powerful offense.

It's not broken. You can rush him down, knock him down, and then the momentum is in your favor. He has weaknesses.

The fact that he can armor through a move, go into the ground, and still get hit as he's coming down from the teleport is fair.

Compare it to Boneshaper, who has the ultimate conditioning tool in f4 after amulet blast on hit. As soon as you respect that, he has a 50/50. On top of ALL of his combos ending in a re-stand into either a 50/50 or pressure, he has one of the fastest projectiles in the game and great space control with the threat of Hellsparks. All it takes is one d4 into MB Hellsparks and he can get his game going.

Cassie Cage has a 50/50 off any jump in, the ability to set up re-stands into another 50/50, and in Spec Ops can use mb drone strike to set up her own hard-to-blockables.

Raiden can end all of his combos in a re-stand that he can make safe with option selects, and he has an advancing, armored special move that can very easily corner you, on top of an armored launcher in mb Shocker.

Erron Black has extremely powerful pressure that leads to a guessing game between a crap ton of options and in Marksman that pressure can be extended with rifle cancels.

These are all good characters and i want to see none of them nerfed, including Quan.

I honestly think that as time goes on, people will get better at fighting Quan. People are too afraid to rush him down, when that is how you beat the character.
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Rude said:
What people fail to realise is that the vortex is all he has.

He doesn't have super safe strings and stagger pressure.

He doesn't have super fast pokes and mobility.

Strings that whiff on other, smaller hitbox characters jail on Quan.

He HAS to go for the vortex every time, because what else is he supposed to do?

I think that, because things like Dragonfire Kang or Kobu Tanya exist that jail him indefinitely, he should have powerful offense.

It's not broken. You can rush him down, knock him down, and then the momentum is in your favor. He has weaknesses.

The fact that he can armor through a move, go into the ground, and still get hit as he's coming down from the teleport is fair.

Compare it to Boneshaper, who has the ultimate conditioning tool in f4 after amulet blast on hit. As soon as you respect that, he has a 50/50. On top of ALL of his combos ending in a re-stand into either a 50/50 or pressure, he has one of the fastest projectiles in the game and great space control with the threat of Hellsparks. All it takes is one d4 into MB Hellsparks and he can get his game going.

Cassie Cage has a 50/50 off any jump in, the ability to set up re-stands into another 50/50, and in Spec Ops can use mb drone strike to set up her own hard-to-blockables.

Raiden can end all of his combos in a re-stand that he can make safe with option selects, and he has an advancing, armored special move that can very easily corner you, on top of an armored launcher in mb Shocker.

Erron Black has extremely powerful pressure that leads to a guessing game between a crap ton of options and in Marksman that pressure can be extended with rifle cancels.

These are all good characters and i want to see none of them nerfed, including Quan.

I honestly think that as time goes on, people will get better at fighting Quan. People are too afraid to rush him down, when that is how you beat the character.
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THIS THIS THIS

Honestly I think if he lost his vortex and didnt got buffed in other areas he would drop from top 10 to mid/low tier
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Look, I WANT as many characters to be good and have dirt as possible, not just Quan.

I don't want a gimped game where everything challenging gets nerfed.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I don't think Quan is going to get a nerf, and I don't really think he should. Not unless this evolves into something worse.

Having said that, this thread seems more about fixing the random factor of bat and sword hitting in a mechanically ridiculous frame of time. A 1 or 2 frame execution of a block is a tall ask, even for something like MAHVEL.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
A character that needs a pseudo unblockable vortex to compete is just a bad design. I would be fine if he got something to compensate for losing the pseudo unblockable since without it he would be basically mk9 scorpion (although he does have good zoning so it's not like he'd be worthless). We're just trying to make the game better here so quan still being good but having more depth than what he has now is the goal
 
TheIrishFGCguy

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
HGTV Soapboxfan said:
A character that needs a pseudo unblockable vortex to compete is just a bad design. I would be fine if he got something to compensate for losing the pseudo unblockable since without it he would be basically mk9 scorpion (although he does have good zoning so it's not like he'd be worthless). We're just trying to make the game better here so quan still being good but having more depth than what he has now is the goal
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I don't know what people are talking about when they say all he has is the vortex. Perhaps they're forgetting about his incredible zoning that is arguably the best in the game.
 
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Vigilante24

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
Ninja Scorp has a long range footsie tool that looks like an overhead but actually hits mid. What if Quan's B2 was changed into a mid?! Problem solved. :joker:
 
Predannok

Predannok

Noob
Rude said:
Cassie Cage has a 50/50 off any jump in, the ability to set up re-stands into another 50/50, and in Spec Ops can use mb drone strike to set up her own hard-to-blockables.
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THIS 10000x i don't know why nobody is mentioning this she can u cannot block ber low overhead / overhead low mid string while the missile is dropping if she times it right, its a guess btw low low overhead / low overhead low/ overhead low low / 50/50 throw. While quan can't move while hes throwing out hes bat cassie can just set her missile up after a knockdown and and do what ever the fuck she wants timing the mixup how she wants.
 
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Vigilante24

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
Predannok said:
yeah remove hes only safe mixup option congratz u have just killed 70% of hes gameplan
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Oooooohhh nooo then he would have to rely on zoning, footsies, ex rune pressure, throw mixups, baiting reversal armor, and hoping opponents press buttons when they aren't suppose to in order to win. Such a downer, he can't possibly win if that were to happen to him... (Cyber Kano and Kitana/Sonic Fox said hi btw).

My previous post was straight up sarcasm anyways man chill. I wasn't serious which is why I put the evil joker face.
 
JDM

JDM

Noob
It's not pseudo unblockable, just cause tom brady posted a video where he "couldn't" block it doesn't mean shit. I have people block my stuff all day. Quan NEEDS this vortex. When you play quan, you literally can't do shit on defense half the time. It sucks But once you get your offense going you have a chance to mix them up to death. High risk high reward. He needs no nerfs.


Before you say he needs nerfs, try him yourself .Tell me you don't get blown up by the simplest offense simply because you can't do shit about it
 
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