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General/Other - Reptile Variation thoughts.

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
After watching the breakdown of Reptile's Variations, I am a little jarred about him.

First of all, his Invisibility variation is completely useless, If I am honest, and for what it does, it will never be worth it in its current state, as the other variations will win over it every time. Invisibility in any MK game has never been MU specific, its a general move, that really only works as a mind game, and at best, allows you to stagger strings and maybe cross up more than you normally could while visible.

Reasons are:
It is a variation specific move.
I like that you can predator version for no meter, and hold the button for full invisibility, were it cost you a bar in MK9, BUT...the MB version for an entire variation is that you get invisibility quicker...is that really the best an entire MB variation move has to offer?

It does no extra damage, and no doubt you will lose it once you block a move. It isn't even creative or rewarding by maybe allowing reptile to take no chip damage while invisible, or giving his throws double damage...nothing.

I also bet that it will just plain and simply run out after time span, even if you use a bar of meter and select an entire variation for it. So unless this gets looked at, this variation will die off, and never be used in competitive play because of the other variations. Gimmick.

The slowing down variation will work straight away against heavy zoning characters, the same characters in MK9 that could just projectile him out of the game and make it very difficult to even walk forward because of his then slow dash and walk start up speed, MU's like Lui Kang, Kitana, Kung Lao, Quan Chi, Skarlet, Freddy, Sektor, Sonya etc. This variation will be used against those type of zoners, pick your moment, and move through the projectiles, or jump over them with enough reaction time whilst in this variation.

Lastly, his Noxious will be his go to variation, as why not use it in any other MU that you are getting free chip damage for. This will work against opponents that can't deal with his offence or pressure or knockdowns, and even better against characters that he can't escape their pressure without elbow dashing or sliding out of. Yes, it isn't great damage normally (1% every 1.5 seconds, could be 0.5%), but if you get a MB version out, you get what looks like 2%, and it lasts 5 seconds.

Im guessing Reptile's get off me move will be D1 or D4 linked into overhead claw, then MB cloud. And either way, Reptile players will be hammering D1 overhead claw like its chrisms, as this is MK, and mashing out special moves after pokes is a thing this community does, most players don't care about hit confirming the poke and maybe getting a string, most won't bother if they can get a safe special out from not hit confirming a poke.

Reptile right now, has two variations. Invisibility should be a standard move across all variations.

I honestly thought he would have a spit or forceball variation.

Just my thoughts.
 
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UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Dude their could be setup specific things which allow reptile to do invis mixups.. It's not completely to be written off... And the flash thing might have to slow startup in some mud to be for counter zoning, it might be more setup oriented
What mix ups does invisibility provide apart from the following?:

If he has no lows or overheads starting or in the middle of his strings, then it will be a matter of blocking low every time and trying not to get his by the overhead claw at the end of strings, as sliding will just knock you away, and doesn't look like it is a hard knockdown, which claw is, and will not be worth it as slide can be punished (I assume). At most he can stagger with strings and maybe get a grab, which will end his pressure. Crossing up won't really matter, as holding block will block both ways.

Invisibility won't grant him more options unless he has really killer non mid mid mid strings, and from what I have seen so far, he doesn't.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I like how we really stuck to that whole lets not jump to conclusions mantra... I get it you're excited and want to discuss the build but calling a variation a gimmick right off the bat, when they have specifically said things are subject to change is rather forward.
Yes, they are subject to change. And the point I made in my opening post is that I really hope it gets looked at. And I hope whoever is play testing the game out there reads the feedback, and considers addressing what is said, if they have not already. Hence the post.
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
I like how we really stuck to that whole lets not jump to conclusions mantra... I get it you're excited and want to discuss the build but calling a variation a gimmick right off the bat, when they have specifically said things are subject to change is rather forward.
IMO we have tried that approach twice and ended up with Kabal and Kenshi in MK9 and MMH and Aquaman in Injustice. I get that a lot of people in the community have these delusional thoughts about NRS providing more than 9 months' support to a game, but I think at this point it's safe to say that NRS/WB's bottom line rules all and we need to speak our minds while we still have the opportunity to do so.
 
I really hope the play testers for Reptile can see this when playing too. It's painfully obvious.
It's my first instinct too tbh, and that goes with raiden's master of storms(my idea with that is turtle in pecific match ups and anti teleport moves) but don't forget reptiles back4 is a string now, and full invis makes pressure really awkward and mb grabs are op, and he can dash right up. He could have hard knockdowns to set it up. Strings are the biggest ? Marks.


While in general I don't have much faith in nrs' competitive vision in charcter design it's important to stay open minded and brainstorm everything. It does appear lackluster.


I also worry about some of quans spacing specific buffs due to slowness, but I have ideas for the,min zoning wars.


I hope the transition to and 2 years of an awkward game like injustice will teach me to be perceptive and make the right choices early on in mkx
 
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IMO we have tried that approach twice and ended up with Kabal and Kenshi in MK9 and MMH and Aquaman in Injustice. I get that a lot of people in the community have these delusional thoughts about NRS providing more than 9 months' support to a game, but I think at this point it's safe to say that NRS/WB's bottom line rules all and we need to speak our minds while we still have the opportunity to do so.
I don't think this is entirely fair. The dlc was a sham in injustice but the patches were great mostly. They do spend quite a bit of time watching and patching... I think they care because it's smart to foster a competitive environment in terms of business opportunity. But they tweak the game for free and don't bombard us with 5 diff. Versions as a cash grab. Overall they produce a terrific product and have their shit together, but I am not sure they are ascreative iro as knowledgable as they could be from a competitive standpoint which is a shame because I believe comp. and casual can be mutually satisfied. It's clear they are trying to expand the competitive outreach of the game and they do care when you look at replay ability and factions. Imo it's a smart business decision to invest time into competitivdplay because it's a dedicated market which is untapped and has potential for growth. Just not reasonable for them to focus too much. I mean they do invest in this site and it's clear from these videos they want to show comp. players the potential of the tools. Even though those noobs can't do combos they do a good. Showcase.

It's also important to know that balance is impossible your first try and excessive focus on balance can dull the game down. Also it's ridiculous to expect for their not to be more casual variations out of 72 though they could use more comp. guidance
 

Sajam

Nightwing In Retirement
I actually think that Reptile's other variations look more fun, but I would fully explore every variation for any character I wanted to main. Even if I was planning on playing a character as a secondary, what if somebody counter picks you and the invisibility variation is strong in that specific MU? I think it's worth understanding each one extensively, because it might just save you in tournament.

Either way, I'm still not sure who I want to main in MKX yet but Reptile and Kitana both looked really great in those matches today. I like that Kitana seemed to be able to handle all kinds of MUs by changing variations, while it seemed Reptile's variation choice was more centered around what the player enjoys. Characters with only small differences in their variations seem more open to playing the version that fits you, while characters with completely different gameplans in each variation could be useful depending on the MU. Honestly I'm just excited to look at all the characters and their variations in general.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
You're massively underestimating invisibility and how it can change matchups. That becomes a difference between being able to space and being totally unable to, and that means characters that rely heavily on traditional footsies suffer a lot as soon as the opponent cannot be seen.
 

Endding

You picked a bad time to get lost friend
It was meant to be light hearted
It's cool, I just see similar posts around and I believe it's unfair.

Tyler actually tweeted after the stream, that he was landing combos so they can do them, I just think stage fright kicks in.
 
You're massively underestimating invisibility and how it can change matchups. That becomes a difference between being able to space and being totally unable to, and that means characters that rely heavily on traditional footsies suffer a lot as soon as the opponent cannot be seen.

The lack of meter needed could be huge, startup frames are important too.

it's a huge question mark
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Let's not forget either that every invisibility move is easily beaten by the numerous tracking teleport attacks found in every NRS game. I didn't notice, but does EX invisibilty not even have a damage boost anymore? He got a damage buff for EX invis in MK9.
Plot twist: NRS will make something to EX-invisibility, and tracking moves won't work against buffed Reptile :p
No, I don't know how it will work then.

You're massively underestimating invisibility and how it can change matchups. That becomes a difference between being able to space and being totally unable to, and that means characters that rely heavily on traditional footsies suffer a lot as soon as the opponent cannot be seen.
Reptile's spacing will suffer too unless it's played by someone with a freaking computer for a brain. But maybe that's actually feasible, I dunno. We'll see, I guess. But we need someone willing to put a work into that to make sure we aren't missing anything bu the time NRS is about to work on the last patch.
 

Montanx

Thats why they call this thing bloodsport, kid.
Dang, so like, stinktiles throws do more Dmg than anyone else's throws due to cloud?

Here's a profound thought. Since the cloud kind of acts like chip Dmg...it's almost like when you land a combo...it's hitting but getting blocked AT THE SAME TIME!!1!1!1!!SEPHYROTH!!!1