Question - Sub-Zero Unbreakable Discrepancy

[UsedForGlue]

I have been tweeting Paulo Garica about Sub Zero recently to get information on his Unbreakable variation.

Normally the cast have a certain move set that is general across the three variations, Scorpion for example has Spear, Teleport, Takedown, and then moves are added depending on the variation, none are taken away.

Sub Zero's general moves are, Ice Ball and Slide, when you choose Grandmaster, you get the Klone move, with Cryomancer you get a command grab, hammer and ground pound, along with other strings, and when you choose Unbreakable, you get the Ice Sheild and the Aura.

But, you also get another move with GrandMaster that is seen in Cryomancer, you get the Ground pound move.

So he has three general moves spread across only two variations, and then a general move taken away for Unbreakable, as it is deemed a defensive variation, yet a somewhat defensive Klone variation has this offence ground pound?!

I don't think that this far, any other character has whole moves taken away from them that are not variation specific, and I really hope it doesn't let the Unbreakable Variation down as it is the variation I am most interested in.

But according to Paulo, Ice Hammer, Ground Pound and Klone cancelling strings isn't how Sub Zero is going to play out.

 

[aldazo]

But SubZero's ground pound isn't one of sub's classical moves, so it makes sense to not be part of all 3 of the variations. But I agree it could fit to unbreakable too.

 

[IrishMantis]

I seen someone do the groundpound in the air in grandmaster one and it looked like he was dropping down with a sword dont know if thats variation specific

 

[Pterodactyl]

That's not the ground pound, that's the hammer move done in the air.


Ground pound in Grandmaster causes the Ice clone to explode, I don't know what it does in the other variations.

 

[TopTierHarley]

I have been tweeting Paulo Garica about Sub Zero recently to get information on his Unbreakable variation.

Normally the cast have a certain move set that is general across the three variations, Scorpion for example has Spear, Teleport, Takedown, and then moves are added depending on the variati

D'Vorah only keeps Ovipositor charge/rush in all three variations but has different specials among them

 

[RiverHB]

Does Kitana lose her fans in the Mournful variation, replaced with the glaives? @UsedForGlue Would this qualify as another example, or am I misunderstanding the question?

 

[Brutal Chimney]

Does Kitana lose her fans in the Mournful variation, replaced with the glaives? @UsedForGlue Would this qualify as another example, or am I misunderstanding the question?

no

 

[xX_Atrocitus_Xx]

Jc has the same set up I don't recall what exactly but he loses a move on one variation but has it on the other two.... You know what I think it's the flip kick.

 

[TheJaquio]

If the cryomancer command grab is what I'm thinking of (the ice dagger stabs), it's just a new ending to his tummy-tickle string, just like how cryomancer changes a bunch of his other strings as well. In the other variations, the tummy tickle still ends with a grab that throws you to the ground.

As for ground pound, I don't know why Cryomancer has it in the first place; it seems more like a clone-oriented move.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I seen someone do the groundpound in the air in grandmaster one and it looked like he was dropping down with a sword dont know if thats variation specific

Cryomancer has the Ice Hammer, it can be done in the air. When its done in the air, he drops straight down.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Well, his defence in Unbreakable must be really strong if they have to take away a move that is seen as offensive and it given to two other variations.

Still waiting for word back on how long the Aura chip damage reduction move lasts for. I think it has a time limit and after a certain hits, it is removed.

But I seen scorpions 39% combo get scaled to 20% or something in one of the streams, and the chip damage wasn't even half of a percent, so it looks promising.

But with all the reveals, I am sure the people looking to main sub will drop away before release.

 

[Knoterror]

I see what you're saying, but honestly there's little reason to get up in arms until we see how good Ice Burst actually is.

Even if it is decent and Unbreakable doesn't get it, it's not like Unbreakable is gonna' be shit. I still think it's going to be his best variation.

 

[UsedForGlue]

it's not like Unbreakable is gonna' be shit. I still think it's going to be his best variation.

I agree, its the Variation I am looking most forward to using.

I am still putting my theories together on how the Klone throw will factor into his gameplay.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Does Kitana lose her fans in the Mournful variation, replaced with the glaives? @UsedForGlue Would this qualify as another example, or am I misunderstanding the question?

Yeah, she loses her fan toss for glaive toss.

 

[LinKueiLegend]

If the cryomancer command grab is what I'm thinking of (the ice dagger stabs), it's just a new ending to his tummy-tickle string, just like how cryomancer changes a bunch of his other strings as well. In the other variations, the tummy tickle still ends with a grab that throws you to the ground.

As for ground pound, I don't know why Cryomancer has it in the first place; it seems more like a clone-oriented move.

Cryomancer is definitely the combo heavy variation so I feel like that'll add to some intense corner pressure and combos.

 

[Knoterror]

I agree, its the Variation I am looking most forward to using.

I am still putting my theories together on how the Klone throw will factor into his gameplay.

It's really hard to say at this point, but it seems like throwing clones is going to be a huge part of his game.

I mean, it has to be. He can't air clone anymore, which is a huge downgrade IMO, as well as losing the ability to create unique clone hitboxes from normals/strings. The startup doesn't look too great either.

Clone throw looks largely unavoidable and I believe has frame advantage on block. I'd be interested to learn if a thrown clone still eats projectiles. All in all, seems pretty good.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Not having air clones just means your AA just need to be on point even more. I'm loving the idea of "Cryomancer" Sub-Zero,even though I played a more defensive Sub I always like the idea of a "Rushdown" Sub

 

[just_2swift]

This game is going to be crazy. I don't know who to main I really like Kotal subzero and raiden. But yes, unbreakable looks powerful on defense but cryomancer tho.... over head hammer + air hammer= instant air over head shenanigans??? Grand master seems to catch my eye that clone... will the clone have proximity issues like mk9?

 

[chores]

Jc has the same set up I don't recall what exactly but he loses a move on one variation but has it on the other two.... You know what I think it's the flip kick.

yep A-List and Fisticuffs have the kickflip but stunt double doesnt.

 

[UsedForGlue]

It's really hard to say at this point, but it seems like throwing clones is going to be a huge part of his game.

I mean, it has to be. He can't air clone anymore, which is a huge downgrade IMO, as well as losing the ability to create unique clone hitboxes from normals/strings. The startup doesn't look too great either.

Clone throw looks largely unavoidable and I believe has frame advantage on block. I'd be interested to learn if a thrown clone still eats projectiles. All in all, seems pretty good.

Im thinking that the Klone will help him in battles where he doesn't have the life lead and you are playing the traditional Klone game.

Before, (MK9) Sub Zero couldn't inflict any damage on the opponent from behind the Klone, and he could be zoned very easily or find it difficult get back from a life lead, now the threat of a 15% Klone at any point means the opponent has to be careful maintaining the life lead, even the fact that it does 2% on block is massive in certain fights.

It looks like its plus on block, and defiantly a high fireball, except for full screen in which it becomes mid, but the huge hit box will help, absolutely no jumping over it when its thrown, so characters jumping back with air fireballs will have to respect it, plus, the MB ice ball is a threat now more than ever.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Im thinking that the Klone will help him in battles where he doesn't have the life lead and you are playing the traditional Klone game.

Before, (MK9) Sub Zero couldn't inflict any damage on the opponent from behind the Klone, and he could be zoned very easily or find it difficult get back from a life lead, now the threat of a 15% Klone at any point means the opponent has to be careful maintaining the life lead, even the fact that it does 2% on block is massive in certain fights.

It looks like its plus on block, and defiantly a high fireball, except for full screen in which it becomes mid, but the huge hit box will help, absolutely no jumping over it when its thrown, so characters jumping back with air fireballs will have to respect it, plus, the MB ice ball is a threat now more than ever.

But how long does it take him to grab it and throw? And can he be hit with projectiles while he's doing so?

 

[trufenix]

There are lots of characters who have things in two variations but not in the third, only Paolo knows why he made the choices he did.

 

[UsedForGlue]

There are lots of characters who have things in two variations but not in the third, only Paolo knows why he made the choices he did.

Yea, he knows what he is doing.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I'm obv going to take a gander at all 3 variations but I'm going to cryo first it looks badass

 

[Wetdoba]

That unbreakable parry shield is realllllly good probably. Its a counter that works on everything and freezes them, works on lows, overheads, grabs, even jump ins. Just doesnt work on projectiles or moves that hit from behind him like Scorpion teleport. He might not need the ice-splosion move in it