Thoughts & Observations about Freddy

[Jim]

I'm going to jump all around on this post but I just want to put out what I've noticed as well as ask for any feedback anyone has. I've been a Sub-Zero main since the beginning but a few weeks ago decided I was going to try and switch and ended up deciding on Freddy. Been very happy, but still have so much to learn.

First I tested how he builds meter (forgot to write down Nightmare Stance, will update when I get home) This is how many times a move must be done to gain one bar of meter, first number is if the special hits or misses, second number is if it is blocked.
Glove Toss: 17 - 7
Ground Spike: 27 - 8
Freddy Fingers: 17 - 7
Teleport: 45 - N/A
Sweet Dreams: 17 - 7
Nightmare Stance: 27 - N/A

When ending combos in the corner I've been doing NMS~back teleport. I'm still testing the wake up of all the cast but so far it seems 100% safe against all wake ups (haven't tested xrays, it does work against Ermac's force push though so I'd assume you are far enough away for any of the xrays as well) The way I've been testing this is setting the computer to wake up attack and doing the string f4,2,1~Enhanced spike JIP f4,2,1~close spike f4,2,1~glove toss (I end with glove toss because it does the same damage, 45%, but builds more meter) then as they hit the ground I do NMS~back teleport. Like I said so far none of the wake up attacks have hit me.

In the same vein as above does anyone know if for the above (or almost any other) string if on block can I cancel the string into NMS then into back teleport are the block string completely safe? I assume if there is something that can punish then enhanced teleport after NMS would make any string 100% safe because they aren't close enough to throw. Correct?

Some of the inputs for Freddy are different than I'm used to/good at so I've been working on that. Starting a combo with forward+a kick is different than almost all other combos so that has been surprisingly hard to get used to. So far I've just been trying to get the inputs down slow first and then speed them up.

The ground spike only combos have been something that I really needed to practice. Thankfully there is a really good setup for this in practice mode. Set player 2 to Kung Lao, turn on wakeup attack and Auto block. Kung Lao will the use a combination of spins and teleports to move through the spots for close/medium/far spikes. So the start of the match he is in range for mid ground spike that tosses him to far, do 2 far spikes. There he can wake up with spin in place/enhanced spin will put him in mid range, regular teleport puts him close on the opposite side, enhanced puts him in close on the same side. Keep repeating this and there are always different starting positions to practice without having to move the character/restart.

For attack teleport punishes (this works for any character to practice not just Freddy) always use Quan Chi. His only wake up attack is the telestomp. Just trip, block, punish, rinse, repeat.

 

[M2Dave]

In the same vein as above does anyone know if for the above (or almost any other) string if on block can I cancel the string into NMS then into back teleport are the block string completely safe? I assume if there is something that can punish then enhanced teleport after NMS would make any string 100% safe because they aren't close enough to throw. Correct?

Teleport used to be very safe pre-patch, but now it is very punishable by almost all special moves that advance forward, even when canceled from strings. If you keep doing f+4,2,1 xx back teleport and the Kabal player (for example) catches on, you will most definitely get punished by the dash. EX teleport is just as unsafe as the regular version but travels further and has invincibility frames on start up. But on the other hand, a character like Sonya can do very little about teleports.

This is a good thread, but as Freddy players (and there are very few of us) we should be talking about how to fight Kung Lao, Mileena, Raiden, and Smoke because these characters are Freddy's toughest match ups.

 

[Jim]

Updated the first post with nightmare stance meter info. Using 1,2 or 3 out of nightmare stance acts as a normal and does not gain meter. Any special out of nightmare stance gives the same meter it would normally.

m2dave, thanks for the reply. So is there anyway to make Freddy's strings safe on block? I was doing NMS~back teleport just because I thought it would be safe. If I cancel a string into NMS then cancel that into block it seems too slow to be safe. Is my only option at that point to try and beat out a potential incoming attack with canceling NMS into one of the attacks/specials?

I get that we need higher level discussion on the hard match ups for him but honestly I'm just not there yet with this character. One thing I'd like to get going would be a best reaction to all attacks/common situations thread. This was talked about in the Sub-Zero forums but never done. So for example the other day someone asked you about how to punish Mileena's roll. Before you answered that I don't think that was on this forum anywhere. What is the best reaction to Kabal dash cancel pressure, d1 , NMS, what? That kind of thing. Everyone has their own play style even within the same character but it is important to share what we know (even with so few of us).

Assuming the computer does the wakeup as soon as it can be done (do we actually know if they do in practice mode?) Kabals dash can be blocked from hit but I can't test from block. What I mean is if you end a corner combo with f4,2,1~glove toss NMS~back teleport you have time to block his wake up dash but it is really tight timing. Easier way is to sacrifice 2% damage and end with f4,2,1~NMS~back teleport. This is very easy to block Kabal's dash from wake up. Again this is all on hit so I'd love to know what to do on block for someone like Kabal or Cage.

 

[M2Dave]

Jim, if you are talking about making f+4,2,1 safe, these are your main options.

- f+4,2,1 by itself is -6 on block, so on block you are safe vs every character but Kung Lao (spin), Reptile (elbow dash), and Sektor (1,2,b+1). The last hit can be interrupted but only by x-rays.

- f+4,2,1 xx glove toss is safe but glove toss can be neutral crouched or interrupted by armor moves.

- f+4,2,1 xx EX spikes is safe but can be interrupted by armor moves.

- f+4,2,1 xx back or foward teleport may or may not be safe depending on the match up. Almost all advancing special moves can punish the teleport, though.

- f+4,2,1 xx EX back or forward teleport is safe 90% of the time because of the invincible start up and the extended traveling distance.

 

[jokey77]

How about just using f+4,2,1 xx NMS and then hitconfirm into 2 (or 1 or 3, on block) or into a follow-up projectile (on hit)?

This is what I usually do. I think, online I never got punished during the NMS. However the attack out of NMS occasionally even stuffs the opponent's whiffed counter-attacks.

... this again may be an online issue, where the aforementioned method is safer than offline.

Will advancing specials (e.g. superman-dive) always stuff my attacks out of NMS?

edit: around 30 frames are more than enough time to properly punish my NMS offline and also having some tea afterwards. propably the stance just gives a psychological advantage causing the opponent to block. generally noone on PSN europe seems to know anything about Freddy. hell, even the Freddy-players seem not to know a lot about him.

 

[M2Dave]

Will advancing specials (e.g. superman-dive) always stuff my attacks out of NMS

Absolutely, especially after f+4,2,1. Superman has a 10F start up, which is pretty fast. If you keep doing f+4,2,1 xx NMS, you will get punished if the Raiden player is any good.

Raiden is a difficult match up for Freddy because so much of your game plan is rendered useless because of teleport and superman. Freddy also cannot interrupt Raiden's b+3,1,2, which is an issue.