Teleports vs Back to Block?

[RYX]

Just a talking point that got brought up in a thread which I personally derailed. I thought it was very interesting and it'll be one of the first things I check out when the game releases.

Since Injustice features a back to block button, I can't help but wonder if the teleports in this game will become even more of a threat than they were in MK9(lulz). Right now the only two characters who have a teleport it seems are Shazam and Raven*.

Both of these teleports do(Raven) or can(Shazam) move them behind the opponent, and Raven can very surely hit you with a drop kick almost immediately as she comes down. Shazam seems a bit less clear, but it's very possible this could be a viable cross-up, and I think it's guaranteed day 1 bullshit we're going to run into online.

So, that comes with the question of whether these characters have enough time between teleporting and attacking that someone with less than godlike reactions can switch buttons in order to actually block the incoming attack, if it can be punished outright, or if it's an unavoidable thing in either character's case.

It looks like Raven will create some serious problems for zoners considering how her teleport travels(it seems to always take you directly behind the opponent) and them having to react by switching buttons.

Shazam I could see causing problems for people on a bad read or poor spacing on if his teleport is going to put him in front of them or behind them, and a wrong guess = a full combo punish(provided he can't be punished) Since his travels similarly to Smoke's, I don't think he'll create huge problems for zoners beyond half-screen, but he could have an easy way in with it.

If these characters are actually GUARANTEED something, they could both be very difficult for most of the cast to deal with.

Thoughts?

 

[Skitzo]

I thought this too & it might be something we have to deal with.

I hope they do have recovery frames & are punishable like in mk9

if Raven can drop kick or whatever after hers, we are just going to learn to block the cross up.

 

[Killphil]

Teleports don't have attacks on them iirc. And it doesn't stop people from playing umvc3 which is still imo a faster paced game.

 

[hellbly]

I'm not sure about the recovery after the teleport: it really seems too fast for Raven.
However, I trust NRS and teleports could be high punishable. Seth and Dhalsim in SF4, for example, are safe on teleport only after the right setups.

 

[RYX]

Teleports don't have attacks on them iirc. And it doesn't stop people from playing umvc3 which is still imo a faster paced game.

They can attack after teleporting. Look at Raven; she teleports behind and above you and it's followed up with a drop kick, kind of like a cross-up

 

[Skitzo]

Teleports don't have attacks on them iirc. And it doesn't stop people from playing umvc3 which is still imo a faster paced game.

the teleports are dumb as fuck in that game. let me explain

have a beam assist, check
equipped with a teleport that lands in front, behind, & above, check
= free mix ups

 

[Killphil]

They can attack after teleporting. Look at Raven; she teleports behind and above you and it's followed up with a drop kick, kind of like a cross-up

Yea, Wesker has the same exact teleport so its not really anything new. Hell, dante does too.

 

[IceNine]

I very much doubt that these teleports will be that fearful.

From a Capcom game perspective, I'd liken the speeds of Marvel Shazam and Raven's teleports to SFIV's M. Bison and MvC3's Dormammu, respectively. Both being quite easy to react to (and in the former's case, potentially punish).

If a different input grants Raven different positioning near the opponent (ie one places them directly above and in front of the opponent, one behind, etc) it'd be slightly more difficult for the guy dealing with the incoming teleport but still hardly unfair.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Kitana would be like even better if MK9 had the back to block feature.
Think about it, you can ACTUALLY play a proper footsie game while walking back and creating distance, and implementing 2,1 to punish.

You can't in MK, because you could be walking back, and BOOM, random smoke bomb, random teleport, random dash, random slides..etc.

Random attacks won't work as efficiently, nor will they work to eliminate a footsie game for the opponent.


I love back to block.

 

[Killphil]

the teleports are dumb as fuck in that game. let me explain

have a beam assist, check
equipped with a teleport that lands in front, behind, & above, check
= free mix ups

I know this isn't easy, and I'm not good at the game at all, but if you block the point character, you'll block the assist attack even if its coming from behind you.

 

[Skitzo]

I know this isn't easy, and I'm not good at the game at all, but if you block the point character, you'll block the assist attack even if its coming from behind you.

That's not what I meant by beam assist, the assist locks you down ie. you have to take the guess

 

[Euphoric]

It won't play like MK9, so Injustice's "threat" or not will be different IMO.

Other B2B games have teleports and they have their own way of dealing with em, I'm pretty sure Injustice: Gods Among Us community will figure it out, sooner or later.

 

[RYX]

It won't play like MK9, so Injustice's "threat" or not will be different IMO.

Other B2B games have teleports and they have their own way of dealing with em, I'm pretty sure Injustice: Gods Among Us community will figure it out, sooner or later.

Until we do I'm going to abuse teleports all day

 

[shaowebb]

Hi there...UMVC3 player here who played nothing but low tier versus Dante, Vergil, Wesker, Strider and Phoenix across two games. Just thought I'd give you how I see teleports in general and why they don't worry me in IGAU.

From experience as a dedicated footsie character player who constantly had to deal with pixie characters across two games I can tell you that teleports are good and that for the first week or so folks we'll be getting blown up by them. However, teleports will not determine top tier or dominate in IGAU as most teleports tend to have only a single type of follow up worth a damn and as such become predictable. Not only that, but in some cases you can blow folks up by fishing for such predictable moves. Either by using a higher priority AA in the case of some characters (my Ryu) or in the case of others you can simply block and punish the attempt (My Iron Fist and Arthur).

In IGAU so far the teleports do not seem to lead to the things that consistently made them spammable in UMVC3...a crossup or overhead. dante, wesker, and Vergil would go for a crossup and Strider was an overhead. Their teleports were frequently the start of all their offense due to how strong and abusable this could be. Especially since the MVC3 series had assists to help make these safe to unblockable.

IGAU has no assists to lock down players and prevent them from reacting to teleports. I've played many a match where Dante, Vergil or Wesker were all that were left standing for my opponent and I can tell you that in those moments the teleporters became so predictable that it was no big deal to block such teleport mixup attempts several times in a row without batting an eye. IGAU is way slower too so reactions will not even need to be as tight for this. Currently the only sort of teleports we see are stuff equivalent to RR dig and Wolverine's berzerker slash since those put you behind folks or dash through so we haven't even got to worry about deadly stuff equivalent to Vajra teleport overheads or Hammer/Helm Breaker teleport crossups


To use teleports in IGAU remember this

Teleport spam=you are an idiot.
Teleport punishing = you will do well

RR was a guy I'd use on occassion with a MODOK team I had and I would get a LOT of stuff simply by baiting out projectiles and then using dig to punish them from behind. If you are just raw teleporting you will likely get blocked often, but using them to punish people committed to other moves will be good. If your character can out pressure by all means give teleporting a shot without doing it reactionary, but know your matchups. If you can't win a frame war with someone you are asking to get ate. Plus remember pushblocking may play a factor on any followup that is blocked as well. If pushblocking works like in most games it might just let them react without as much block stun allowing for even easier punishes to blocked teleport followups...especially if the dude has some kind of armored move.

 

[Jack White]

ITT: A lot of people who have never touched a capcom fighter.

Trust me, as an experiencd mvc3 player, I can tell you that these teleports are nothing.

 

[MisterSpyker]

IIRC Shazam doesn't have a teleport, it's something more akin to Smoke's bf3 special.

And, as Jack White said, these teleports are nothing.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Smoke as DLC pls.

Problem IGAU?

 

[THTB]

Shazam's teleport is basically Akuma's with less recovery, or comparable to Dimitri's dashes in VSav.

Raven's is comparable to Wesker/Dante/Vergil/Dormammu/Phoenix/Dhalsim's teleport.

They work in those particular games, so it's not something nobody has never seen.

 

[Vilén]

My prediction is that the only thing people have to worry about with teleports is how bad I'll make fun of people who complain.

If the netcode is decent, you'll have no excuse for fucking up your block vs. a cross-up teleport unless there's a ridiculously ambiguous set-up to be had. In the case of SHAZAM!, the teleport that does cross you up + it's follow up are definitely slow enough to react to pretty easily.

Then again, I was a pretty dedicated Guilty Gear player. The manliness I achieved through playing that game prevents me from being worried about something as lame as a cross-up teleport.

The shit to be worried about would be jump-ins that come in at you one pixel over the line and ruin your whole day for it.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

#inb4teleportuppercutunblockables

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

#inb4teleportuppercutunblockables

Smoke's still worst.

 

[Courtney]

Can't be any worse than they are in Marbles so I'm not too worried

 

[GGA Fill Pops]

I hope Billy Batsons tp leads to aesome block string mixups if you can cancel normals into it
SHAZAM!!!

 

[smookdawg]

react and block. we dont know if its safe or punishable right now so calm down dude lol