General/Other Sub Zero Makes the Rest of the Cast Seem Boring

[Mechacide]

Once Sub Zero gets his EX armor, I'll likely play him more. However, this is going to make playing him as JC a fucking nightmare, WHOEVER GETS YOU IN THE CORNER FIRST WINS....GO!

Also, if EX shadow kick and EX slide collide, does the world explode?!?!?!

That's only assuming EX Slide will have armour from frame 0. I do hope it does >: ) I'll take using one meter over two anyday.

And if they collide, they'll both be in block animation. I imagine JC will either get a small punish or at least be at frame-advantage. I doubt you'll see it often, though, as Sub has no reason to use EX Slide from range against JC.

 

[salvificblood]

That's only assuming EX Slide will have armour from frame 0. I do hope it does >: ) I'll take using one meter over two anyday.

And if they collide, they'll both be in block animation. I imagine JC will either get a small punish or at least be at frame-advantage. I doubt you'll see it often, though, as Sub has no reason to use EX Slide from range against JC.

If it does, it's going to make the Sub, Cage matchup really lopsided in Sub's favour. On the other hand, there's no point in the armour not being there from frame 0 because it'll be pretty much useless in helping with his other matchups if it isn't because you'll only burn a bar if you absolutely know you'll armour through whatever's being thrown your way.

 

[Mechacide]

If it does, it's going to make the Sub, Cage matchup really lopsided in Sub's favour. On the other hand, there's no point in the armour not being there from frame 0 because it'll be pretty much useless in helping with his other matchups if it isn't because you'll only burn a bar if you absolutely know you'll armour through whatever's being thrown your way.

I disagree. Regular Slide will be going under projectiles on its 5th frame, so I think EX Slide armouring up on its 5th frame would be fine, too. Sub's XR is vulnerable just at the start, too (but that's only for like 1 or 2 frames).

 

[salvificblood]

I disagree. Regular Slide will be going under projectiles on its 5th frame, so I think EX Slide armouring up on its 5th frame would be fine, too. Sub's XR is vulnerable just at the start, too (but that's only for like 1 or 2 frames).

Reg slide isn't going under all highs At least that was the last I heard. And if his ex slide only has armour after the 5th frame, it's a completely useless buff, in my opinion.

 

[mozarus]

Ice clone on stage + armor on ex Slide = no more mindless fireball spamming, overall good buff.
Take away his ice puddle, give him back-slide for escape pressure, on ex back-slide leaving ice rink. And Sub-Zero is most fun to play character in MK games.

 

[Mechacide]

Ice clone on stage + armor on ex Slide = no more mindless fireball spamming, overall good buff.
Take away his ice puddle, give him back-slide for escape pressure, on ex back-slide leaving ice rink. And Sub-Zero is most fun to play character in MK games.

That's a frickin' awesome idea!! Would make his match-ups with Jax, JC and Sonya even better, though.

salvificblood: My point was that 5 frames should be enough time to react to projectiles, which is what EX Slide armour would mainly be for. But they've said now that they're not buffing regular Slide? That's cool.

 

[Mikps]

Scopion

IMO opinion scorpion is the exact same way.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

If it does, it's going to make the Sub, Cage matchup really lopsided in Sub's favour. On the other hand, there's no point in the armour not being there from frame 0 because it'll be pretty much useless in helping with his other matchups if it isn't because you'll only burn a bar if you absolutely know you'll armour through whatever's being thrown your way.

I still haven't figured out how armor on slide will make this lopsided. Can someone please explain?
Honestly this doesn't really change matches that much. I mean... you're going to take the 8% damage... give 12% ... and reset the situation. Against zoners.
I understand it can get you out of some pressure against JC and KL and such... but the slide is still really punishable on block and will be baited heavily.

 

[salvificblood]

I still haven't figured out how armor on slide will make this lopsided. Can someone please explain?
Honestly this doesn't really change matches that much. I mean... you're going to take the 8% damage... give 12% ... and reset the situation. Against zoners.
I understand it can get you out of some pressure against JC and KL and such... but the slide is still really punishable on block and will be baited heavily.

It makes his matchup with JC like 7-3, to be honest. Every time Johnny gets in, you're in a huge guessing game as to whether or not you'll get out. One mistake against Cage when you don't have breaker could see you lose all your health against a good Cage. That's what makes it a workable matchup for Cage. He has few oppoirtunities to get in but when he does, especially in the corner, there's not much Sub can do. If Sub has armour on ex slide, instead of wasting 2 bars on breaker, he can just armoured slide to get out of the frame traps and then go back to placing clones and throwing some ice to build meter again.

Cage could choose to low block after a string, but if you don't ex slide, this will allow you to reverse the pressure where you couldn't before, so just having the armour on ex slide really hurts JC. Against zoners, it doesn't really help us much. Projectile armour on ex freeze would have helped a huge amount more. It gets stuffed randomly all the time at the moment, but whatever, it'd be overpowered but armour on ex slide making Sub's already favourable matchups even moreso isn't overpowered...

Mecha: you can't give it armour as late as that. It has to be a proper defensive option for Sub, or it's worthless. It'll get stuffed a lot and you can't afford to waste meter like that.

 

[Mechacide]

The current Slide needs a few frames to go under high projectiles, but that works fine. I know what you're saying, and I'd like armour from frame 0, I'm just saying that I can easily see them not giving that to him.

As well as giving EX Slide armour they need to make it cause untechable KND, otherwise it'll make no difference against zoners, as previously stated by...well everyone.

 

[salvificblood]

The current Slide needs a few frames to go under high projectiles, but that works fine. I know what you're saying, and I'd like armour from frame 0, I'm just saying that I can easily see them not giving that to him.

As well as giving EX Slide armour they need to make it cause untechable KND, otherwise it'll make no difference against zoners, as previously stated by...well everyone.

Couldn't agree more.

I just think they'd be shortchanging Sub-Zero badly if they only went halfway like that. If you're going to give him the buff, please give him proper armour so it's actually a viable defensive option. It's not the change I would like to see happen, but I think it should be proper armour, at least.

Making it an untechable knockdown is also a good suggestion. It would then help somewhat with Sub-Zero's more difficult matchups. That's a solution I hadn't seen.

 

[grandabx]

Enough said. One of the best character of the game. In my opinion even better than Human Sub-Zero against most of the MK9 Cast.

not if they give subz a forward-moving clone and speed up the groundfreeze. play sheeva. you have to make reads on EVERYTHING.

 

[salvificblood]

not if they give subz a forward-moving clone and speed up the groundfreeze. play sheeva. you have to make reads on EVERYTHING.

A forward-moving clone? Lmao. Ex clone should run back and forth across the screen at the speed of Noob's shadow tackle, too.

 

[grandabx]

A forward-moving clone? Lmao. Ex clone should run back and forth across the screen at the speed of Noob's shadow tackle, too.

i meant subz moves forward and leaves a clone behind him. clone right now is very shallow in it's current design. a faster groundfreeze would make his projectiles a guessing-game. the groundfreeze could be slightly slower than ice blast. for a methodical character, subz is rather limited. human subz from mk3 was waaaay more fun and tricky.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

i meant subz moves forward and leaves a clone behind him. clone right now is very shallow in it's current design. a faster groundfreeze would make his projectiles a guessing-game. the groundfreeze could be slightly slower than ice blast. for a methodical character, subz is rather limited. human subz from mk3 was waaaay more fun and tricky.

lol... you need to learn the character more... especially if you think this Sub zero is shallow.

 

[Felix]

Theres hardly any generic characters in my opinion. Only ones that exist of the top of my head are: Scorpion, Kano, Stryker, Sindel, Rain, Kenshi. Mileenas just a fast generic character in my opinion but i'll let her off. I would also say Jax isn't unique but isn't generic either so I guess he can be let off too.


Reptile is extremelly unique with his much slower than average move speed and dashes, instead he has to either use his special move elbow dash to move around quickly or his foreballs to draw them to him, he both zones and rushes down with elbow dash to get in and uses forceballs and acid spit to zone you.

Noob's non-generic, he's a defensive character that in a sense spams you with running men, when you get close as a defence he uses the elbow man to keep you out really well and can teleport and disable your blocking to add to his tools.

Cyrax is pretty unique I think. He uses counter-attacks as his main strategy.

Smoke's also really unique, I think he's quite a defensive player myself and is best when he spams smoke bombs lol. He can use shake to parry your projectiles and can smoke away from you to gain distance. Acctually think he strangely plays similar to Cyrax.

Kabal's is a meter building machine, which is what makes him very different. He uses constant iAGB and buzz saw to keep you blocking and at bay while he builds meter, his dash cancel is also insane at building meter. He has really nice string and looks soo fun to play however his iAGB is just too hard in my opinion, also his dash cancel is pretty fucking hard to get properly good at so I can't play as him. :'(

But yeah I agree that Sub-zero is one of the most unique characters in Mk, which is why I respect people who play him.