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Spamming

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Shadow Priest
Juggernaut , haven't talked to you in a while. What up, man!!

Anyway, you have to sometimes understand their point of view. Fighting games and Art is kinda the same. Some art can look like crap to some people. While to others it look fantastic. Hehe... know what I mean. Spamming to an untrained shows no talent at all. While to some players it look like skills.

Back to art, once you have a passion you look at things differently. Same applies for gaming, I guess.

I don't really blame people that hate spamming, because I once hated it myself.... until I played Street Fighter IV >.>

You don't see artist painting a different way so you can like their art. Nor do you see gamers playing a different way.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
Well thought out argument, and I do agree with you.

However, for a new player, it's annoying to spend 2 hours in practice mode learning combo strings and mix-ups, coming online to examine frame data and get strategy advice, then lose to a Noob player that knows "all three" shadow moves. To know that all that effort is being countered by someone who likely hasn't played the game for more than 15min is frustrating. Is spamming a viable tactic? Yes. Does it require a lot of skill? Nope.

And therein lies the problem. For a beginner or intermediate player to get past aggressive spamming, it's hard. There needs to be a lot of dedication to the game to learn appropriate strategies, and most people would rather throw their controller in the air and yell "fucking spammer" then put in the time and effort.
Your completely right. Even though I laugh most of the time when I get called a spammer whenever I play against an irl friend and they say stop spamming it's not even worth explaining to them its called zoning and how its completely viable etc. When they're at full screen walking into missle's and not having fun I can't really blame them for thinking that.

So most of the time I just go ok and stop, so yeah what I basically mean is even when someone calls you a spammer even though they'll be wrong 1000% of the time its just something you should learn to expect and if its not a random player your up against something you'll have to put up with an dacknowledge to someone who's just playing casually and doesn't want to learn the game.
 

Stuck

Mid Tier Whore. 1 combo and a dream.
Spamming is only a viable strategy because it wins.

You will never however convince me to respect someone for winning with it.
Spamming doesn't require or want respect. Spamming is a result of successfully damaging your opponent and exposing their weakness against a certain setup. Then comes the rinse and repeat. It's my opinion to take the loss and try to not let it happen again. If you think really hard, most all of your lopsided losses involved some sort of "spamming." Frustrating? Yes. Cheap? No. Drop the salt and try to adapt next time.
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
Juggernaut , haven't talked to you in a while. What up, man!!

Anyway, you have to sometimes understand their point of view. Fighting games and Art is kinda the same. Some art can look like crap to some people. While to others it look fantastic. Hehe... know what I mean. Spamming to an untrained shows no talent at all. While to some players it look like skills.

Back to art, once you have a passion you look at things differently. Same applies for gaming, I guess.

I don't really blame people that hate spamming, because I once hated it myself.... until I played Street Fighter IV >.>

You don't see artist painting a different way so you can like their art. Nor do you see gamers playing a different way.

Exactly.
Let's say for instance, 1 person completely shuts down the other using impeccable use of Breakers and Fireball zoning with Sindel in a KoTH match.
Let's, clearly hypothetical mind you, say that this match was in the GameFAQs room. Everyone else in the KotH knows how hard it is for Sindel to shut down say, once again hypothetical, Liu Kang and gives the Sindel player 10s, but the Kang player gives a 0... ^_^
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
as a sektor player if im against a character where getting in is difficult for them i'm obviously going to exploit that weakness by using rockets and flamethrowers to keep them away, just like once they're in they're going to try as hard as they can to stay in as thats MY weakness as a sektor player.

however if they're good at blocking/evading my projectiles im going to stop and try something else. spamming and zoning are seperate things.

spamming = same move over and over so if you catch on thats all they're gonna do then you have an easy win on your hands
zoning = carefully choosing where and when to do each attack to make sure they get hit by it and you don't get punished in the process

you have no idea how many rage messages i get because all a johnny cage player tries to do is dash into me with combos, then i get made out to be the lame player just because their ONE playstyle is a transparent as a glass window. i personally feel like players need to understand the game a little more before complaining and calling out players that do.
 

Detective-E

We are many.
Good explanation.

Plus to those who complain, if they're doing the same thing over and over and you still can't counter it it's more your skill then theirs.
 
My xbl mailbox is full of hate mail
Calling me a spammer ......


.... I play Johnny cage!! I don't even use fireballs except in block strings or to knock a jumper out of the air. The scrub mentality of "thats not how I play so it's not right" is getting so old.

I usually replay with "sorry I'll hit you less next time"
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I use sub... so when I get murdered by a good ermac I'll switch up to see if he can deal with Noob. They are polar opposite in play style. I'm very good at reading full screen jumps and throwing clones. I feel dirty... because it SEEMS cheap and lazy. Like Juggs said... I just train the opponent to assume that's all i'm going to do. I'll never say I'm awesome at this game... I just broke the 1,000 game mark.
But there are certain characters that RELY on this type of gameplay. I will never complain if you are good enough to read jumps and keep me out.
I just send the obligatory "<3" and move on. You peeps understand, and i tend to play against mostly you guys now.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Been lurking around this site for a little bit and made an account because of this thread.
I wouldn't say I'm a great player, intermediate probably. I know how to read a player. I've learned how to play fairly well with every character because it helped me learn all of their moves and the best ways to fight against them.
First, welcome to the site, glad you decided to sign up.

If you mix things up a little bit, and at least demonstrate some sort of proficiency with your character I'm totally fine with a little spamming. If you're throwing projectiles back to back without even a seconds pause to try and catch me off guard then I'm going to punish hard, call you out on being a cheap spammer and never fight you again.
There's no such thing as "cheap spamming", there's no such thing as "cheap" either. As long as it's tournament legal, that is. The problem here is, your opponent doesn't have to demonstrate proficiency with his character, all he has to demonstrate is that he can win. If spamming earns him the win, it's your fault that you let someone spamming beat you. If you beat a spammer, why does it matter what they were doing? Why boast about beating them by calling them names after you win? Also, to never fight someone again because they didn't play how you wanted them to play is exactly what scrubs do. You just can't improve if you don't face the fact that people are playing to win, and that you should be too.

To quote one of my favorite comedians: "They’ll hit one button 87 times and win every game. “I won! Yea! I’m a ninja!”
I get mad. “You’re not a ninja! I’m the only ninja of the house! I do flips. You kick me in the shin 87 times.” -Robert Kelly
That's how I feel about actual spammers. Don't kick me in the shin 87 times, do a flip bitch.
This is how a lot of newer players view fighters. They want to see cool combo's, or crazy mix-ups. They want to be visually entertained. Well, that's not how competitive gaming is. Your opponent is going to do everything he can to win.

"You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.

Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them." ~ Sirlin
 

catch22

GOD LAO FTW!!!
"Spamming"

This term is nothing new as far as fighters go. Despite what you think "spamming" is, it is usually described as doing the same move in repetition. For instance, doing Sub-Zero's slide multiple times back to back could be labeled as "spamming". Recently I've been noticing that "spamming" has had a negative connotation. As in, players are using it to describe someone's playstyle or strategy, in attempt to belittle their gameplay.

Spamming, whether it be a projectile, special move, combo string or whatever it may be, isn't necessarily a bad thing. A counter argument to that would be, "Well, what if they're being punished for 'spamming'". Even then, it's not necessarily something that you shouldn't be doing. Players "spam" for a shit ton of reasons, most in which are situational.

For instance, spamming a projectile accomplishes many things. It's good for zoning, creates space, it allows for space control, builds meter, does chip damage, etc. It's also good for mind games. Frustrating your opponent because he can't get in forces him to make mistakes. Mind games like this are something you have to be thinking about with every tactic in fighters. It can also be used to train your opponent. If you spam projectiles at full screen most of the time, or if you have a certain pattern with them, your opponent will adapt to that and try to counter them accordingly. Then you switch it up and don't spam projectiles at that same distance and dash in, or block and punish his counter you know is coming. Or you switch up the pattern, forcing them to jump in, then you anti-air them. All of this is accomplished by simply "spamming" a projectile.

The same things above can be accomplished with "spamming" other things as well. Such as I mentioned before, combo strings, other specials, hell even normals. Once you do something in repetition, you're training your opponent to look out for it. You may spam something 5 times in a row the first round, then never do it again. But your opponent will always be looking for you to use it, affecting his focus and his reads on you.

The main problem is, a lot of players see "spamming" as a scrubby tactic, or disrespectful, etc. There's plenty of reasons why it's viewed this way. One reason is because they can't beat someone spamming. Just because someone is doing the same thing over and over it doesn't mean it's necessarily easy to counter. So players use them spamming as an excuse as to why they lost, using the word spamming in a negative way to imply that it's the only reason they lost. It's also frustrating losing to someone spamming. It just doesn't look good losing to spam. But the thing is, it's not the spammers fault for why you lost, it's YOUR fault. Is it his fault that you don't know how to counter his spamming? When you have the mentality that spammers are bad players, you shift the blame off yourself. So you don't work at beating spam, you just view it as a scrubby way to win. This is true for a lot of tactics in fighters, not just spamming. If you want to improve, you need to take responsibility for your loses. You didn't lose because your opponent was doing this or that... you lost because your opponent was doing something you couldn't counter, or defeat. And despite what you may think, or what others have led you to believe, there's almost ALWAYS a way to counter a tactic such as spamming.

Every tactic is viable in regards to competitive gaming. As long as you're not cheating by going against tournament rules. Once you realize this, and that your opponent is always going to do whatever he can to win, is when you realize you need to practice against every tactic that is possible to use against you.
awesome post brother, subscribing to this thread for sure. Thanks again.
 

SZSR

Noob
Lol..... Is there really a thread about this?
Isn't TYM here so we can learn about competitive MK play? I don't see why avoiding the issue of this mentality would be more helpful than confronting it.
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
The issue isn't with the act of spamming. Don't get it twisted. It's with the players who get their asses handed to them by effective zoning and say "WAAAAAHhhhhhhh SPAMMMM!!!"
 
Spamming = Whatever my opponent did to defeat me. "You lousy scrub! How dare you hit back!"

Alternatively, a spammer is someone who only knows how to do one move and he uses it for all it's worth. If you can't defeat an opponent who only knows how to do one move, then perhaps it's time you put down the controller and go read a good book.
 
Noob clones with lag are brutal! That being said, it's just part the game. I have to come up with a good counter.
 
I see it like this...

-Spamming= no strategy or no mindset of following up or anything. Just throwing random stuff out just cuz you can. Examples, if someone just does teleport all round and nothing else even if it's constantly punished. That's not a strategy because they have nothing else to throw at you but that 1 move they are spamming.

-Zoning= strategy that involves keeping an opponent away until you find a viable option or used to throw an opponent off. If it hits then by all means have at it, but don't expect to just toss fireballs all match. I'm not saying you always have to have a game plan but zoning is meant to be used to give you a way out or time to think of an option.

People think zoning is just chucking shit but it's not. Their is a huge difference, but you know ragequitters and most people who are new don't understand that difference between zoning and spamming.
It's like a game of chess, if you toss a fireball out you have to be ready for the next move, even if it's just used to trap someone in a corner. Your not just throwing out fireballs just because it's something to do.

Think about it, would you chuck a fireball at point blank range if you know for sure you'll be punished for it? No you won't, that's all apart of the zoners strategy in finding what works and when to use it. Spammers have no thought process of this at all, they just keep doing that 1 move no matter the outcome.

Now as a Sindel player I use fireballs but not as much. I don't just run to the corner and start chucking. My gameplan is to find a way in to hit a combo safely and get the hell out as fast as possible. A bad fireball barrage isn't going to help you get in if you have no strategy but to just chuck fireballs because once someone gets close to you your dead. This is the difference between spamming and zoning right there.
 
I've found out that mixups are spam.

Thanks online!
Online gaming in a nutshell.

If you are a bad player.
You will get hate mail saying you suck after you win.

If you are am average player
You will get hate mail saying you suck after you win.

If you are a tournament caliber player.
You will get hate mail saying you suck after you win.

Sent from my Gameboy Color
 

JkOC

Noob
I had a friend who explained the "no such thing as spamming" mentality to me a while back and it makes gaming in any form more enjoyable. He put it to me in football terms, which i played for years, and was a real simple way for me to understand. Do i call a football team spammers for running the same play over and over if it can't be stopped? Hell no. Why is gaming different he asked? I had no answer. I like the original post by Juggs. Great read.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I use sub... so when I get murdered by a good ermac I'll switch up to see if he can deal with Noob. They are polar opposite in play style. I'm very good at reading full screen jumps and throwing clones. I feel dirty... because it SEEMS cheap and lazy. Like Juggs said... I just train the opponent to assume that's all i'm going to do. I'll never say I'm awesome at this game... I just broke the 1,000 game mark.
But there are certain characters that RELY on this type of gameplay. I will never complain if you are good enough to read jumps and keep me out.
I just send the obligatory "<3" and move on. You peeps understand, and i tend to play against mostly you guys now.
Those noob vs. sindel matches were really fun last nightXD And yeah adapting like that is necessary in MK. I rarely switch chars because I want to work on Sindel most of the time, but I used to counter pick if they picked a terrible matchup for me or something.

EDIT: also great read Juggs agree 100% :D