I know there has been Soulsborne and Sekiro threads and discussions made before, but been playing them again recently and wanted to talk about them a bit. Especially with the hype of Elden Ring on the horizon. Also, I have been playing Dark Souls 3 the most recently, and wondered if anyone still plays at all? Would be cool to get some competitive PvP going! I have the game for XB1, GT: Juggleypuff
Anyway, I also wanted to make a tier list of the Soulsborne + Sekiro games. Two separate tier lists, one regarding PvE, one regarding PvP. Every game except Demon Souls, because that’s the only game of these I haven’t played and probably never will unless a remaster/remake happens.
Let me quickly define PvP and PvE for anyone who for some reason doesn’t know what they mean.
PvP stands for “player vs player”. Which means a player controlled character fighting another player controlled character
PvE stands for “player vs environment”. This means every single player aspect of the game.
So here’s my tier lists:
PvP:
≠ Sekiro doesn’t have PvP
PvE:
Dark Souls 2’s PvP is godlike. So much variety and depth, especially in comparison to the other games. There’s a lot of tech available. This includes but is not limited to; Attack canceling, kara cancels, dead angles, roll cancels, power stance, stance cancels, and a bunch more cancels and just a lot more tech in general.
Dark Souls 2 also had the most variety as far as PvP is concerned. You could pretty much make any build you want and could make it competitively viable. It’s also one of the few souls games where Magic was top tier. When I say “magic” I’m talking about it all, btw. So sorceries, pyro, dark magic, faith, etc. Magic is decent in the other games too, like for instance dark magic in Dark Souls 1 was very powerful. But the casting of the dark magic was very easy to avoid unless you were getting ganked. In Dark Souls 2, a lot of the magic has different speeds, ranges, start up, size of AoE, etc. There was just a lot of variety within the magic tier that you had to worry about and know about.
Dark Souls 2 also had power stance. Which was one of the best Dark Souls mechanics that has been introduced when it comes to PvP. This allowed even MORE variety of weapons and builds ontop of the variety that already existed. I can’t remember exactly how it worked enough to give a great explanation, so you can just look it up. But basically, whatever requirement for a certain weapon, if you had that plus 50% more (for instance if a weapon required 10 strength and you had 15) you could go into a power stance. I think this was only possible if you were using two weapons of the same category (for instance two Katanas) but again, you’ll have to look it up because I can’t remember exactly. Anyway, my favorite build used a Washing Pole (the longest Katana in the game) with some kinda unique Rapier. I can’t remember exactly which Rapier it was, but all I know is I could dual wield that Rapier with the Washing Pole and go into power stance. And it was a VERY strong build. The washing pole had insane range and the best running r1 in the game. My main BnB would be to do a running r1 with the Washing Pole into jab attacks with the Rapier. This would stun lock them to where I got a nice combo off and did insane damage. Doing a high damaging combo off of a run attack is good enough, but doing it off a running r1 from a washing pole? It was so damn good!
Anyway, Dark Souls 2 had by far the worst PvE though in comparison imo, which is kinda funny. HOWEVER, it being the worst compared to the rest of the soulsborne+sekiro games does NOT mean it is bad. Dark Souls 2 PvE still shits on A LOT of other games.
I have Dark Souls 3 PvP above Dark Souls. I love the original Dark Souls PvP. It’s very fun and it’s the game that started it all for me, and for a lot of people. Both for PvE and for PvP. However, there’s so many issues with Dark Souls 1 PvP. There’s obviously a lot of good too. Dead angling is one of my favorite PvP mechanics and it was in the original Dark Souls and I’m pretty sure it was in Dark Souls 2 as well. But they removed it from the Remaster of the game. And there was never any clarification if that was done on purpose, or it was just an accident as a result of remastering the game.
But anyway, one of the main problems I have with DkS1 PvP is the poise system. The way poise works in DkS1 is very easy to understand. The more poise your character has, the more they can walk through and tank attacks without getting staggered or stunned. A big issue with this is that you can literally just backstab fish the entire time. Since the hitbox area where you could perform a backstab was so large, you could just wait for an attack, walk through it, and get an easy backstab. Of course, there were a few weapons you couldn’t poise walk through, but there weren’t very many. And the ones that you couldn’t were very large, heavy weapons that were really slow anyway. Meaning you didn’t even have to walk through those, just react to the startup, then reverse roll into backstab.
Another issue I have with DkS1 PvP is the lack of variety. There were some obviously top tier weapons/builds that were so much better than the rest. In any serious PvP match, like a clan fight club tournament, a fight club in general, any tournament in general, or really just any general actual competitive 1v1 match, you wouldn’t be seeing very many different weapons and/or builds. At least not in my experience. However, that also made for some fun times if you didn’t use the god tier set ups. I remember me personally using a MLGS build (which depending on who you ask is either top tier or high mid tier), and just recking people with it. DkS1 MLGS is one of the best versions of the weapon. But let’s be honest, that weapon is good in all of the games that it’s in, which is why it’s probably my most favorite weapon in the trilogy.
I feel Dark Souls 3 PvP is better than DkS1. More variety and more builds capable of being competitively viable. There is of course the standard top tier weapons and builds, which is unavoidable. But the variety definitely was more vast than DkS1. Also, they altered the poise system for DkS3. Poise in DkS3 works only when you’re attacking. So that if you have high poise and you’re attacking and a trade happens, you generally wouldn’t get staggered if you had high poise. This was also dependent on the weapons both players were using. In general, the heavier the weapon was, the more poise damage it did.
Anyway, I could talk about the games more and more, and didn’t even touch on the PvE. But was curious how everyone else ranks the games for PvP and PvE. I know people have way different opinions on their favorite games out of these, and have way different tier lists. That’s the main reason I wanted to make this thread, to see everyone else’s tier list!
Long live Miyazaki, long live FromSoft!!
Anyway, I also wanted to make a tier list of the Soulsborne + Sekiro games. Two separate tier lists, one regarding PvE, one regarding PvP. Every game except Demon Souls, because that’s the only game of these I haven’t played and probably never will unless a remaster/remake happens.
Let me quickly define PvP and PvE for anyone who for some reason doesn’t know what they mean.
PvP stands for “player vs player”. Which means a player controlled character fighting another player controlled character
PvE stands for “player vs environment”. This means every single player aspect of the game.
So here’s my tier lists:
PvP:
- Dark Souls 2
- Dark Souls 3
- Dark Souls
- Bloodborne
≠ Sekiro doesn’t have PvP
PvE:
- Sekiro
- Dark Souls
- Bloodborne
- Dark Souls 3
- Dark Souls 2
Dark Souls 2’s PvP is godlike. So much variety and depth, especially in comparison to the other games. There’s a lot of tech available. This includes but is not limited to; Attack canceling, kara cancels, dead angles, roll cancels, power stance, stance cancels, and a bunch more cancels and just a lot more tech in general.
Dark Souls 2 also had the most variety as far as PvP is concerned. You could pretty much make any build you want and could make it competitively viable. It’s also one of the few souls games where Magic was top tier. When I say “magic” I’m talking about it all, btw. So sorceries, pyro, dark magic, faith, etc. Magic is decent in the other games too, like for instance dark magic in Dark Souls 1 was very powerful. But the casting of the dark magic was very easy to avoid unless you were getting ganked. In Dark Souls 2, a lot of the magic has different speeds, ranges, start up, size of AoE, etc. There was just a lot of variety within the magic tier that you had to worry about and know about.
Dark Souls 2 also had power stance. Which was one of the best Dark Souls mechanics that has been introduced when it comes to PvP. This allowed even MORE variety of weapons and builds ontop of the variety that already existed. I can’t remember exactly how it worked enough to give a great explanation, so you can just look it up. But basically, whatever requirement for a certain weapon, if you had that plus 50% more (for instance if a weapon required 10 strength and you had 15) you could go into a power stance. I think this was only possible if you were using two weapons of the same category (for instance two Katanas) but again, you’ll have to look it up because I can’t remember exactly. Anyway, my favorite build used a Washing Pole (the longest Katana in the game) with some kinda unique Rapier. I can’t remember exactly which Rapier it was, but all I know is I could dual wield that Rapier with the Washing Pole and go into power stance. And it was a VERY strong build. The washing pole had insane range and the best running r1 in the game. My main BnB would be to do a running r1 with the Washing Pole into jab attacks with the Rapier. This would stun lock them to where I got a nice combo off and did insane damage. Doing a high damaging combo off of a run attack is good enough, but doing it off a running r1 from a washing pole? It was so damn good!
Anyway, Dark Souls 2 had by far the worst PvE though in comparison imo, which is kinda funny. HOWEVER, it being the worst compared to the rest of the soulsborne+sekiro games does NOT mean it is bad. Dark Souls 2 PvE still shits on A LOT of other games.
I have Dark Souls 3 PvP above Dark Souls. I love the original Dark Souls PvP. It’s very fun and it’s the game that started it all for me, and for a lot of people. Both for PvE and for PvP. However, there’s so many issues with Dark Souls 1 PvP. There’s obviously a lot of good too. Dead angling is one of my favorite PvP mechanics and it was in the original Dark Souls and I’m pretty sure it was in Dark Souls 2 as well. But they removed it from the Remaster of the game. And there was never any clarification if that was done on purpose, or it was just an accident as a result of remastering the game.
But anyway, one of the main problems I have with DkS1 PvP is the poise system. The way poise works in DkS1 is very easy to understand. The more poise your character has, the more they can walk through and tank attacks without getting staggered or stunned. A big issue with this is that you can literally just backstab fish the entire time. Since the hitbox area where you could perform a backstab was so large, you could just wait for an attack, walk through it, and get an easy backstab. Of course, there were a few weapons you couldn’t poise walk through, but there weren’t very many. And the ones that you couldn’t were very large, heavy weapons that were really slow anyway. Meaning you didn’t even have to walk through those, just react to the startup, then reverse roll into backstab.
Another issue I have with DkS1 PvP is the lack of variety. There were some obviously top tier weapons/builds that were so much better than the rest. In any serious PvP match, like a clan fight club tournament, a fight club in general, any tournament in general, or really just any general actual competitive 1v1 match, you wouldn’t be seeing very many different weapons and/or builds. At least not in my experience. However, that also made for some fun times if you didn’t use the god tier set ups. I remember me personally using a MLGS build (which depending on who you ask is either top tier or high mid tier), and just recking people with it. DkS1 MLGS is one of the best versions of the weapon. But let’s be honest, that weapon is good in all of the games that it’s in, which is why it’s probably my most favorite weapon in the trilogy.
I feel Dark Souls 3 PvP is better than DkS1. More variety and more builds capable of being competitively viable. There is of course the standard top tier weapons and builds, which is unavoidable. But the variety definitely was more vast than DkS1. Also, they altered the poise system for DkS3. Poise in DkS3 works only when you’re attacking. So that if you have high poise and you’re attacking and a trade happens, you generally wouldn’t get staggered if you had high poise. This was also dependent on the weapons both players were using. In general, the heavier the weapon was, the more poise damage it did.
Anyway, I could talk about the games more and more, and didn’t even touch on the PvE. But was curious how everyone else ranks the games for PvP and PvE. I know people have way different opinions on their favorite games out of these, and have way different tier lists. That’s the main reason I wanted to make this thread, to see everyone else’s tier list!
Long live Miyazaki, long live FromSoft!!