Should forward roll be nerfed?

[Cheesus]

MK Tom Brady posted a video that got me thinking (video link at bottom)

I don't fully agree with his suggested change of raising the cost to 2 def bars. Here are some other alternatives.

1. Make it cost 1 off and 1 def bar like u2 and u3
2. Increase the vulnerable frames after invincibility
3. Increase the total forward roll duration so the opponent can't split your wig if you use a pressure string (btw people need to stop using full strings on oki, use the 1st 2 hits then dial in the rest as needed)
4. Leave the cost at 1 def bar but decrease its replenishment speed so it takes longer to get your bar back than if you back roll (kinda like how after a breakaway it takes ~16 sec per bar)

 

[trufenix]

Yet another video about how if you auto pilot your combos and your corner pressure you can get blown up by UNIVERSAL DEFENSIVE AND METER COSTLY options. Yet another video that says repeatedly "Oh sure, the defensive player made the right read, but that's not FAIR, how come if he makes a read I get killed?"

No specific examples, just "look what happens if I used this terrible meaty against this character with a million damage punish". He lists wake up counter attack "punishes" on meaties as a problem. He lists TOO MUCH JUMPING on reaction as a reason. He lists krushing blows that "EVERYONE" will "KILL"l you with as a problem. He cites "how many matches at Combo Breaker" as if literally any of the 800 players AT combo breaker said, you know what the problem is? Offensive rolling. Too much def meter! Too many MEATIES BEING PUNISHED ON WAKEUP.

Sorry Tom.

 

[dribirut]

I actually think the roll should be nerfed..

So you have an aa wake up, invincible wake up, delayed wake up, forward roll, backward roll and normal get up option...

Imo they need to be dialed down but I’m sure that is probably an unpopular opinion

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

I agree with Tom 100%. One of my major complaints about the game besides hitboxes.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I can see his point, but personally I’ve been able to read and throw forward roll. Leave it be for now.

 

[dribirut]

To me it’s about being rewarded for knocking someone down. Combo damage was already reduced compared to many other games but it’s gotten to the point where I would rather walk away rather than pressure if the opponent has resources

 

[KotalKahnIsTrueKahn]

There are too may guessing games inolved in knockdown situations, imo.

 

[omooba]

umm no? neutral jump punch covers delayed wake up, roll forward and most u2s and u3s. like bruh the risk reward is 100% balanced.
no you shouldn't get free pressure. this game was based on the logic that you should have to win neutral a lot more and make a lot more reads than other netherealm games. this is part of that logic.

 

[BuffRaiden]

It should be removed. It you're knocked down, that's it. You should be at a disadvantage. It's encouraged a meta where people just jump out of knockdown or mash uppercut because the offense player is being forced into a situation where neutral jumping is his best option.

Whoever thought "let's give EX smoke towards from MKX to every character on wakeup" is an asshole.

If I get the knockdown, l ought to be able to pressure or block to bait out your wakeup. Not playing this 25/25/25/25 game and walk back terrified of your roll.

Keep roll away as a resource capped tech roll. Get rid of roll forward. It's embarrassingly bad design.

 

[santanabar]

Of course not. The person doing the roll is taking a risk, he is using defensive meter without knowing if it will payoff, and can even be punished. The player in the offensive can also decide to take a risk or not by pressuring the opponent in the floor, but without using any meter. AND has the option to play it safe and do nothing, while the other guy is wasting meter in wakeups/rolls.

You knocked down the opponent? Good, you already have the advantage, why more?

 

[BuffRaiden]

Yet another video about how if you auto pilot your combos and your corner pressure you can get blown up by UNIVERSAL DEFENSIVE AND METER COSTLY options. Yet another video that says repeatedly "Oh sure, the defensive player made the right read, but that's not FAIR, how come if he makes a read I get killed?"

No specific examples, just "look what happens if I used this terrible meaty against this character with a million damage punish". He lists wake up counter attack "punishes" on meaties as a problem. He lists TOO MUCH JUMPING on reaction as a reason. He lists krushing blows that "EVERYONE" will "KILL"l you with as a problem. He cites "how many matches at Combo Breaker" as if literally any of the 800 players AT combo breaker said, you know what the problem is? Offensive rolling. Too much def meter! Too many MEATIES BEING PUNISHED ON WAKEUP.

Sorry Tom.

Sounds like this guy has been mauled in the corner one too many times.

 

[BuffRaiden]

Of course not. The person doing the roll is taking a risk, he is using defensive meter without knowing if it will payoff, and can even be punished. The player in the offensive can also decide to take a risk or not by pressuring the opponent in the floor, but without using any meter. AND has the option to play it safe and do nothing, while the other guy is wasting meter in wakeups/rolls.

You knocked down the opponent? Good, you already have the advantage, why more?

Except you don’t have any advantage when you have to guess among 4+ options. You should have 2. Wake up nattack or delay.

 

[kabelfritz]

should it be nerfed? hell no, there are multiple options to blow it up.

 

[kabelfritz]

Except you don’t have any advantage when you have to guess among 4+ options. You should have 2. Wake up nattack or delay.

i think you should pay more attention to your opponents meter when pressuring

 

[NaCl man]

No. Wake up attacks have risk. Get shimmied for a full combo if your just throwing it out. You cant just preasure mindlessly in after a knockdown. The risk reward is fine.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Forward roll is one of the easiest options to deal with, I don't agree with nerfing it. You can meaty, hop attack, neutral jump, throw, or just wait.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the "you can do the same thing your opponent does" argument. Let's say you roll out of the corner and switched position. They can literally do the same thing and vice versa. It's not like we are talking about character matchups that aren't fair, everyone can roll.

The option isn't broken, if the roll was free then yes that would be broken. I think it's fine, and it's punishable. It's not like the roll is God mode just because you are super aggro and make a bad read.

i think you should pay more attention to your opponents meter when pressuring

This.

This.

This.

Most players don't take the fraction of a second to check not only their meters, but their opponent's as well. If you rush in too much or don't learn to bait ANY kind of wakeup, you deserve to eat that shit imo. I was playing @Juggs recently and remembered real quick that I wasn't playing UMK3 anymore, so I had to stop stampeding the full match. There's real depth in the balance between offense and defense in this game, and that's part of what makes it so addictive right now. No two matches are the same, partly because of such mechanics.

 

[santanabar]

Except you don’t have any advantage when you have to guess among 4+ options. You should have 2. Wake up nattack or delay.

You have to guess IF you want. Nobody is forcing you to make the guess, you can stay neutral and watch the other guy wasting meter. And still, if you want to take the risk, odds are in your favor. On the other hand, the defender is forced to make a guess.

 

[Vagrant]

I stopped at "The wake up game game is almost as bad as MK9"

 

[GhosT]

Nope keep it as is. I like them kollector command grab kb it's the absolute best cuz most the time u burnt your roll out meter to roll at me. Enjoy the damage boiiii

 

[scarsunseen]

I think it's fine as-is. If someone is very meter-heavy on wake-up, you're gonna get endless oki until their meter regenerates. That's why you have to be smart with your meter.

 

[DarkSado]

I actually think the roll should be nerfed..

So you have an aa wake up, invincible wake up, delayed wake up, forward roll, backward roll and normal get up option...

Imo they need to be dialed down but I’m sure that is probably an unpopular opinion

No I agree there to many defensive mechanic also there hop that beat throw and armor interectable.

 

[Methysan]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the "you can do the same thing your opponent does" argument. Let's say you roll out of the corner and switched position. They can literally do the same thing and vice versa. It's not like we are talking about character matchups that aren't fair, everyone can roll.

Just because both players can do something doesn't mean it's not a broken mechanic that devolves the game.

 

[Tony at Home]

Meaty with the first button of a highly staggerable string.

If they roll you recover first and can force them to tech a throw. If they don't roll and block use the short recovery of that normal to continue pressure.

That in addition to just reading and throwing them and neutral jump shenanigans. Forward roll is good but doesn't feel yet like it needs to be toned down

 

[Qwark28]

I actually think the roll should be nerfed..

So you have an aa wake up, invincible wake up, delayed wake up, forward roll, backward roll and normal get up option...

Imo they need to be dialed down but I’m sure that is probably an unpopular opinion

I agree a lot with this.

I learned to settle for what the game is at the end of the day, but for the first 2 weeks I was hardcore despising how many defensive options there are that straight up fuck you over if you're not 200% aware of them. And what the fuck is up with 90% of the games wakeups being safe unless you FB them.

From how fast rolls recover, to how many wakeups are nearly safe on whiff even if you're expecting them, to having 3 types of neutral getup on top of that, etc.

Definitely agree on rolls costing 1 def + 1 off.