Breakthrough POST NERF: Stop using f2,d1 in the corner for damage.

[Sao87]

Balance changes to superman: We normalized his damage.

un-neccessary ender I know but I wanted to style.

 

[SWonder916]

Balance changes to superman: We normalized his damage.

un-neccessary ender I know but I wanted to style.

Any tips on the timing for landing the 3,Trait,3 part? And the 3,Scoop? That's def the toughest parts for me to nail,nice stuff tho

 

[Sao87]

Any tips on the timing for landing the 3,Trait,3 part? And the 3,Scoop? That's def the toughest parts for me to nail,nice stuff tho

Its very hard. I play on stick and for the very first part have my hand piano style on 3, trait, mb (default layout). If you dont land the 3 xx lazer at its peak you wont get the combo. Easiest way to start learning it is forget about the 3 xx trait part until you can do the combo 10/10 trys, then start adding the trait into the mix. Also just xx bf3 or breath ender. No point in transitioning for 2 bars.

 

[SWonder916]

Its very hard. I play on stick and for the very first part have my hand piano style on 3, trait, mb (default layout). If you dont land the 3 xx lazer at its peak you wont get the combo. Easiest way to start learning it is forget about the 3 xx trait part until you can do the combo 10/10 trys, then start adding the trait into the mix. Also just xx bf3 or breath ender. No point in transitioning for 2 bars.

Ah wow yea I hadn't even noticed you stuffed in three 3's before the MB breath.Haha.Good stuff,since that post of mine I practiced a bit and am now doing F2,3(or 2,2,3 off of JI2), 3, Trait, 3, MB Breath, Laser Zap, 3, Scoop, 3, Breath

But I'm still dropping it a bit,I figure I'll get better at it with more practice but that Scoop before the ender is kickin my ass. Trait cancelled part was too but gettin the hang of that a lil...I find it much easier off F2,3 than 2,2,3

 

[Turnbull]

Idk what anyone is doing off of 2,2,3 without trait.
For an 47% you can do 223,223, 3~MB breath, zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath. I'm sure more can be done though

 

[Turnbull]

I know a lot of this has probably already been noted, but if nothing else I thought it might be helpful to have a consolidated list. So far I have only really looked at the best options for F3 and B1 starters. I use B1 occasionally on knockdown to mix it up a bit, plus since f2-d1 scales like crazy now, its probably the best low starter. Plus ppl who know the MU will often crouch block a f2 to get ready to mash out D1's after f2-3,breath and what not.

Anyway here's the rough list. Sorry to include so many variations. I just figured certain combos would be easier for certain people so I'd include small variations even if they do the same % damage (usually just differences in gravity).


F3 Starter

Trait and Meter
F3, j2, 3~trait, 3~freeze, zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 61% Lower Difficulty
F3, 3~zap, 3~trait-scoop, 3~freeze, zap, 3,breath = 62%
F3, 3~trait, 11,11, 3~Freeze, zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 62%
F3, j3, 3~trait, 3~freeze, zap, 3..~scoop, 3~breath = 64% Medium Difficulty
F3, 3~zap, 3~trait, 111~Freeze, zap, 3~scoop, 3~trait = 67%
F3, 3~zap, 3~trait, 3~freeze, zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 71% Higher Difficulty


Trait and No Meter
F3, j3, 3~trait, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 46%
F3, j3, 3~trait, 3~scoop, 3~breath - 48%
F3, j3, 3~trait, 11, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 48%
F3, 3~zap, 3~trait-scoop, 3~breath = 49%
F3, 3~zap, 3~trait, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 53% pretty easy
F3, 3~zap, 3~trait, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 55% can be tricky

Meter and No Trait
F3, j3, 3~Freeze, zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 50% Can add 11 before 3~freeze, or before 3 freeze for same dmg but more gravity
F3, j3, 3~freeze, zap, 11, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 51%
F3, 3~zap, 3~freeze, j2, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 53%
F3, 3~zap, 3~freeze, j2, 223, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 55%
F3, 3~zap, 3~freeze, j2, 223, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 56%
F3, 3~zap, 11, 3~freeze, zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 57%

No Trait, No Meter
F3, j3, 11, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 39% can add an additional 11 after the first one and bring it to 40%
F3, 3~zap, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 42%
F3, 3~zap, 11, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 44%
F3, 3~zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 45% (harder than 46 imo)
F3, 3~zap, 11, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 46%

Instead of f2 d1, use b1 on knock downs
I haven't looked into it yet, but characters with short d1's/pokes may whiff their d1/poke after breath, while you are always in range to connect with b1. This could also be a terrible set-up, I don't know yet.

Trait/Meter
b1~freeze, zap, 11~trait, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 44%
b1~freeze, f3, 3~zap, 3~trait-scoop, 3~breath = 47%
b1~freeze, zap, 3~trait, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 50%
b1~freeze, f3, 3~zap, 3~trait, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 50%
b1~freeze, zap, 3~trait, 11, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 50%
b1~freeze, zap, 3~trait, 11, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 52%
b1~freeze, f3, 3~zap, 3~trait, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 52%

Meter/No Trait
b1~Freeze, zap, 11, 11, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 42%
b1~freeze, f3, 3~zap, 11, 111~scoop, 3~breath = 44%
b1~freeze, f3, 3~zap, 11, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 45%

And If you feel like throwing away lots of meter, you can also B1 MB Bounce cancel into all the F3 starter combos. Good damage, but not really worth the meter (especially if opponent still has clash). Plus i imagine eventually everyone will be able to block superman's overhead on reaction.

 

[Turnbull]

Also for a slightly swaggy combo off of 2,2,3 without trait, you can use:
223, jd3, 3~Freeze, zap, 3~scoop, 3~breath = 50%

 

[eiseC]

Turnbull I think the problem with your combos is that it's easy punishable as F3 = 30 startup frames and b2 = 29, therefore I prefere to combo off f23.

 

[Turnbull]

Turnbull I think the problem with your combos is that it's easy punishable as F3 = 30 startup frames and b2 = 29, therefore I prefere to combo off f23.

I only ever do those after a knockdown in the corner. I usually MB the F3 so they can't D1 out of it or wake-up attack. To START corner pressure initially I usually start with f2-3, or 111, or 223...If you hit them with a MB F3, the next time they will not try to d1/wakeupand will likely stand to avoid it, so you hit them with the b1. These are really only to be used off of knockdowns, not in general.

 

[Solid]

I only ever do those after a knockdown in the corner. I also usually MB the F3 also if i do it after a knockdown so they can't D1 out of it or wakeup. To START corner pressure initially yes I use f2,3 or if i,m in range 223. If you hit them with a MB F3, the next time they will not try to d1 and will likely stand to avoid it, so you hit them with the b2. These are really only to be used off of knockdowns, not in general.

Don't you mean B1 for the low?

 

[Turnbull]

Don't you mean B1 for the low?

Yes my bad. in a KOTH lol

Edit: Think I fixed all of them in the original post, don't know how I missed that :s

 

[Raynex]

The 11 / 111s seem to be important post-patch to assist in combo timing. Good stuff Turnbull

 

[Noserfatu]

F2 D1, F2 D1, F2 D1, F2 D1, F2 scoop, super
17 hits 19%
so normal

With trait 24%

 

[GBS Giovanni]

These are corner combos I've been doing based on the 11/111 string.

- F23, 3~Heatzap, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 111~Scoop, 3~Breath 53%
- 223, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 11,11~Scoop, 3~Breath 45%
- 222, 3~Trait, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 11,11~Scoop, 3, Breathe 63%

The Trait combo is really tight to land the second 11. Going to try to see if its easier to go 11, 3 for the trait combo.

 

[SWonder916]

These are corner combos I've been doing based on the 11/111 string.

- F23, 3~Heatzap, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 111~Scoop, 3~Breath 53%
- 223, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 11,11~Scoop, 3~Breath 45%
- 222, 3~Trait, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 11,11~Scoop, 3, Breathe 63%

The Trait combo is really tight to land the second 11. Going to try to see if its easier to go 11, 3 for the trait combo.

Ah wow good stuff,do the 111's make the scoop MUCH easier to whiff if at all?? If so I''ll def pick these up asap

 

[Raynex]

These are corner combos I've been doing based on the 11/111 string.

- F23, 3~Heatzap, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 111~Scoop, 3~Breath 53%
- 223, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 11,11~Scoop, 3~Breath 45%
- 222, 3~Trait, 3~MB Breathe, Heatzap, 11,11~Scoop, 3, Breathe 63%

The Trait combo is really tight to land the second 11. Going to try to see if its easier to go 11, 3 for the trait combo.

Nice, these look similar to the ones I'm using too. Had to do some work in the lab to find the most consistent ones, here they are (in my opinion) First damage listed is for 111~scoop, 2nd is for 3~scoop. 111 is easier in many cases but sacrifices a touch of damage as you guys already know.

Meterless
- 223, 11, 11, 111 or 3 ~scoop, 3~Breath (33% / 35%)
- F23, 3~Heat Zap, 11, 111 or 3~scoop, 3~Breath (41% / 45%)

Trait, Meterless
- 223, 3~Trait, 11, 111 or 3~scoop, 3~breath (44% / 47%)
- F23, 3~Heat zap, 3~trait, 111 or 3~scoop, 3~breath (50% /53%)

1 Bar
- 223, 3~[MB] Breath, Heat Zap, 11, 111 or 3~scoop, 3~Breath (46% / 47%)
- F23, 3~Heatzap -> this combo is the same as yours. 111 and 3~scoop both do 53% in the end, so use 111 for consistency
- B1~[MB] Breath, F3, 3~Heat Zap, 11, 111~scoop, 3~Breath (44%)

Trait, 1 Bar
- 223, 3~trait, 3~[MB] Breath, Heat zap, 11, 111~scoop, 3~breath (63%)
-F23, 3~Heat zap, 3~trait, 3~[MB] Breath, Heat zap, 111 or 3~scoop, 3~breath (67% / 69%) ***my go-to combo for old Supes damage

All of these damage figures go up if you replace the starter with j.D3. Midscreen combos haven't changed at all. I use 111~scoop exclusively (especially in tournament) because the % isn't worth the dropped combo. I would highly recommend everyone do the same!

edit: DeathAndHealing

 

[nfdsallwd]

how to connect 3, trait, 3, mb breath after f23, 3 heat zap? is there any video? i do like f23, 3 heat zap, 3 trait and after that opponent drops to the floor every time

 

[Raynex]

The most important part of that combo is right after the initial launch. Make sure you're hitting the first 3~Heat Zap as soon / high as you can after F23. Once you've established the required height the rest is just very quick consecutive inputs. Also remember to cancel trait activation into 3 immediately, during the power-up animation.

 

[Turnbull]

Just to make sure, does everyone know you can meter burn trait (Ie. 111~trait~ff right trigger)? I actually had no clue until like two days ago haha. not bad for 111 mixups + lots of damage. For most characters I would say its probably not worth the meter. But with trait + frame advantage it might be worth it for superman to occasionally throw out a 111~trait~MB Overhead (in the corner at least).

Also, does anyone know if F2~trait, F2... can legit frame trap? or just as d1'able as f2-3, breath, f2-3 etc. Often in the corner (usually during combos that started from mid screen) I well end the combos like MB Freeze, j2, 111~trait . from here I think throws are basically free, or you have trait active and enough from advantage for any real mixup. Just trying to play around with some new ideas.

 

[nfdsallwd]

luthor corps charged me every time after f2~trait and f23~trait if i tried another f2. but d1 beat his corpse charge, so you can frame trap with d1~breath, but remember that this is not a true blockstring

 

[Raynex]

Just to make sure, does everyone know you can meter burn trait (Ie. 111~trait~ff right trigger)? I actually had no clue until like two days ago haha. not bad for 111 mixups + lots of damage. For most characters I would say its probably not worth the meter. But with trait + frame advantage it might be worth it for superman to occasionally throw out a 111~trait~MB Overhead (in the corner at least).

Also, does anyone know if F2~trait, F2... can legit frame trap? or just as d1'able as f2-3, breath, f2-3 etc. Often in the corner (usually during combos that started from mid screen) I well end the combos like MB Freeze, j2, 111~trait . from here I think throws are basically free, or you have trait active and enough from advantage for any real mixup. Just trying to play around with some new ideas.

You can [MB] trait? I must be misunderstanding you. Do you mean popping trait then doing a [MB] B3 /F3 for a mix-up?

When you do j.2, 111~trait, you should use j.2, 11~trait instead. 11 is +15 on hit and trait increases it so F3 / B3 / throw / B1 become guaranteed unstoppable attempts. It's a frame trap I use often. 111 doesn't give as much + frames (+9 i think)

 

[Turnbull]

Raynex nah u can do trait and then forward forward right trigger (same way u bounce cancel off of any string). and for some reason i thought 111 was more or at least equal (add recovery frames + advantage and then subtract recovery frames of trait). Could be crazy though.

 

[Alexandru Pascu]

I've started doing F23, Heat Zap, 3 xx trait 3xx MB Breath, Heat Zap, F2xx Low Scoop, 3, Rising Grab, Hear Vision. And it comes to 64% if you meter burn the last heat vision. If not it stops at 62%. Obviously the only draw back iss that you push your opponent out of the corner but I do like doing over 60% damage

 

[nfdsallwd]

it's way better to do f23, 3~zap, 3~trait, 3~mb breath, 3~scoop, 3~breath. 69% and 3~scoop is very easy to time. and you keep them in corner.

 

[MashBot]

Maybe it's me but I can never do f23 3zap 3 trait 3 MB breath online so I just do f23 3zap 3 MB breath...