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Strategy - Cryomancer Options after using Cold Blooded. (F421+3)

Durango

Enhancer
For Cryomancers, we need setups to follow up with our prominent combo ender. The move loses its point if we just let the opponent get away, so we need two things.

1) Midscreen setups.
2) Corner setups.

Midscreen setups limit our options in a number of ways. Moves like B33 simply won't hit as they're too far away. Your opponent also has plenty of leg-room to wiggle out and back-jump. Oftentimes, I find myself usinh D4, D2 (Uppercut), B2, B12, or EX Hammer. The EX Hammer links into another combo. I would love to use F4, but I feel there's too much startup on it to be a practical lead. The most annoying thing, though, is when players simply jump up to avoid your EX Hammer and counter. At least with uppercut, you can avoid a punish if you use it from far enough away and your opponent doesn't get to you in time. Sliding is also an option - being your fastest move - but not if they low block. But that said, you can train them to low-block and start hitting B2.

Corner setups give you B33 as an option. Unfortunately, startup is fairly slow, leaving you to play risk with lows. You can D3 or even D4, the latter of which gives you enough hitstun to either hit again (to train your opponent to low-block), or just go right into B2 from there. You can also fuzzy guard and EX Hammer or back away.

No matter where you are, though, your biggest enemies are:

1) Neutral jumps
2) Armor.

People who neutral jump will avoid most of your followups, even in the corner. If they jump in, you have Uppercut at your disposal. If they neutral jump, they can also use a jump kick to keep you from using most of your options, as well as (again) dodging your Hammer for a free combo.

Armor attacks will go through any of your options and put you on the defensive instead. It's imperative you check your opponent's meter to avoid being hit by Kung Lao's EX Spin or Liu Kang's EX Bicycle Kick, for instance. Same applies to Sub-Zero dittos. You don't want to be hit by your own EX Hammer, EX Slide, or even an Ice Clone.

So again, the prominent followups to Cold Blooded are:

B2
D4
EX Hammer
Neutral Jump 3 or 4
D2 (uppercut)
B33
F4 or Cold Blooded

You can't D4 into B2 unless you're in the corner, and D3 simply won't reach. I feel many characters can outprioritize Sub-Zero's jump punches in the air. A kick will send them sliding down and close to a corner. EX Hammer and D2 are similar in that they are ranged attacks, and at max range, may save you from punishment. B33 will get you in if your enemy is stand blocking, and only if they're stand blocking. It's also fairly impractical if you have no meter since Ice Ball will only follow through if you're facing a female opponent. F4 has reach and your F42 can lead into Slide or EX Hammer, but if your opponent jumps, you can get punished.

EX Hammer is ideal if your opponent has meter since you're going armor vs. armor, taking damage, and dishing it back out. If they don't, they oftentimes will use a more defensive option or a higher-priority attack to beat you out.

Anyway, I'm trying to find more options to use, especially corner options. You don't have an Ice Clone, but there are still methods to corner your opponent in Cryomancer. If you have anything, it's more than appreciated.
 

ArmageddonUMK

LongJohnCena
This is some good stuff. I don't really have anything to add, but I'd like to mention that I used cryo sub a lot when I first started and learned you can absolutely bully people in the corner with d4/b2 mix ups. Just gotta watch out for armored wake ups really.
 

Durango

Enhancer
I'm actually looking for more strings and options. I feel it's still too easy for players to escape.
 

ArmageddonUMK

LongJohnCena
The biggest issue I faced using d4/b2 exclusively was the opponent jumping out of it. Sometimes b2 would catch them and knock them back down, other times they'd just jump straight over it. I started using neutral jump kicks to catch this and also get a hard knockdown. Njp might also be an option depending on the matchup. Or maybe even air hammer since its two hits it might stuff wake ups/armor. Just some ideas
 

Durango

Enhancer
The biggest issue I faced using d4/b2 exclusively was the opponent jumping out of it. Sometimes b2 would catch them and knock them back down, other times they'd just jump straight over it. I started using neutral jump kicks to catch this and also get a hard knockdown. Njp might also be an option depending on the matchup. Or maybe even air hammer since its two hits it might stuff wake ups/armor. Just some ideas
Jump kick sounds more practical since it has a larger hitbox. I'm tired of people out-prioritizing Sub-Zero's aerials.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I have completely exhausted all possible options Sub Zero can have after the command grab.

It makes no sense that Sub Zero is at neutral after the grab with push back, he really should have guaranteed advantage for a F4 at least.

You basically have to play the neutral game, which consists of D4. If the opponent is conditioned to block low, then you can run in and 12 EX hammer, or B2, or Run in grab, or even Jump in, but unfortunately some of the cast can trade a d4, or even beat his, and not even with their D4,s but D3's and 1's.

The other option is when the opponent decides to back dash, you can run in and F4 or 12, or B12 them. But unfortunately, some opponents just mash buttons and you are left running into a block string.

Most opponents don't respect anything or completely panic and just NJP, or mash out armoured moves, or anything really to stop them from holding the block button for 0.8 of a second in a fight.

@colt Is there any chance in the future that the F422+1 on hit will be looked at? It feels like he should guaranteed pressure for even a F4, many of the cast have things like this, such as Shinnok's steal move, Liu Kang's Bike Kick, Scorpion's Flame aura, Kung Lao's Low Hat, The cage's nut punches, Ermac, Quan Chi, Erron Black etc etc.

The hammer already gets destroyed by most of the cast on block, even in MB, and the Air hammer...why is it even in the game?

Considering Kung Lao hasn't had Buzz Saw touched, and even had Tempest buffed, and Shinnok getting new moves and MB options, F421+2 getting advantage for a F4 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and it would hardly break anything.
 
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DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
@Tom Brady do you know any good options off Cold Blooded in Cryomancer? I know you play Grandmaster specifically but surely you've touched the other variations, after all you did put out a guide for them.
 

Durango

Enhancer
I'm going to break down our options into questions and four scenarios.

1) Does your opponent have meter?
2) Are you in the corner?

Meter/Yes Midscreen

-Block
-EX Hammer
-NJK
-NJP
-D4 (risky)

NJK goes farther, which is crucial since many characters can beat out your aerials.

Meter/No Midscreen

-EX Hammer
-B2
-D4
-D2 (Uppercut)
-F4 (into EX Hammer, Slide, or Cold Blooded)

Meter/Yes Corner

-EX Ice Burst
-EX Hammer
-Block
-NJP
-NJK
-D4

Notice Ice Burst is added. Unlike in midscreen, this goes far enough to hit. Another user brought this up to me earlier, and it has armor and can chain into Cold Blooded. Using it at midscreen comes with unnecessary risk. You're better off using the Hammer, because you likely won't be getting a solid combo off EX Ice Burst from midscreen.

Meter/No Corner

-D2 (they WILL try to jump at one point)
-NJP
-NJK
-EX Hammer
-D4
-F4 (into EX Hammer, Slide, or Cold Blooded)

Your main X-Factors here are that B33 is too slow and F33 doesn't reach. They would both be viable low options if not for those respective issues. But you're gambling with way too much otherwise.

And yes, it makes no sense he's at neutral, making the reset overall less effective. I'm going to start dabbling with Grandmaster soon to see how it compares.
 

Durango

Enhancer
I made a new thread about it, but I figure the *worst* problem to deal with are players who jump after Cold Blooded. B2, F33, B33, and EX Hammer do nothing to players who neutral jump or back-jump in the corner. D2 seems to be your primary option, but they can just block it and punish, and you get no combo out of it. Players mixup their jumps, so sometimes they'll just stand there. If you try to JI2, it will whiff as a result, which is an otherwise good punisher.

The point is trying to use Cold Blooded in the corner and keep them there, but it's very hard to do.