The PantyChrist
Rest in Pantiez
D2 gun backdash is not worth it. Maybe batgirl can't punish it but I assure you others can. If I'm gonna attack I want some damage/ reward for it not just 5% and a kd
It would be misinformation if I hadn't in fact tested it myself, which I did. All the cartwheel options are punishable with standing 1. Low cartwheel is -9, standing 1 is 8 frames, I managed it pretty consistently.A big assumption that I'm misinformed.
We just disagree man. We're each stating facts and drawing different conclusions from them. You can think what you want, but I really can't see them even as equal in difficulty with what you're saying.
This post achieves nothing. If you're going to say I'm wrong you have to back it up. If you're going to say I have no understanding of his tools even though I've been into the lab and still currently am practicing things you didn't even know worked then back up what you're saying with facts. My original statement was an opinion and yet again saying "I am wrong" as if your opinion is factually correct doesn't help. You feel that I am wrong, and I'm open to being proven wrong as I have been a couple of times throughout the thread, it's cool.@Youphemism
half of your reply to me was incorrect information and insufficient lab time with Joker. Again we are using examples of both characters since that's what we're discussing and now I see your lack of Joker knowledge and understand of what we are saying. When we actually do discuss this MU I'll discuss this with you again because your Joker upplaying and Batgirl downplaying is killing me now lol aside from what @StevoSuprem0 @The_PantyChrist and myself have said to you it seems you aren't entirely understanding much of Jokers tools at all. I'm pretty much done discussing thisBatgirl neutral game downplaying, Joker upplayingdebate with you. I appreciate you giving your opinion though. Just keep in mind next time you want to debate with Joker player, be better prepared because the inly way to be success in any MU using Joker is to have extremely extensive knowledge of your character vs every other character. You wont begin to understand the struggle because you don't use him. Near unblockable setups are NOT guaranteed and EASY to deal with but again you really don't understand the Joker like you think you do because you don't play him. Thank you for your thoughts though I appreciate them
Yeah of course in general she's a much better character throughout her whole game, considering her 6 frame achieves a lot more than Jokers and her game is a lot more effective when the opponent gets opened up into it. A disagreement in opinion is a fine conclusionWe just disagree man. We're each stating facts and drawing different conclusions from them. You can think what you want, but I really can't see them even as equal with what you're saying.
She has an easier time dealing with every aspect of the game (zoning, footsies, execution, punishing, risk/reward, etc) than Joker does based on what both of us are saying IMO. You somehow think the opposite. That's fine, but I'm done.
Continuing this back and forth is pointless.
He did state facts. You followed up with 47 lines summating to "...so? Batgirl = harder". That's enough. Saving it for the MU thread. You will be tagged.This post achieves nothing. If you're going to say I'm wrong you have to back it up. If you're going to say I have no understanding of his tools even though I've been into the lab and still currently am practicing things you didn't even know worked then back up what you're saying with facts. My original statement was an opinion and yet again saying "I am wrong" as if your opinion is factually correct doesn't help. You feel that I am wrong, and I'm open to being proven wrong as I have been a couple of times throughout the thread, it's cool.
It achieved the simple fact that of everything we've said you still don't understand or get what we are saying and the wealth of things you are talking about can be dealt with. Tbh I feel like rather I continue to back my stuff up or not we will keep going and your counter arguments will just further look like nonsense to me no offense. I'm just to lazy to argue if I feel it will achieve nothing lolThis post achieves nothing. If you're going to say I'm wrong you have to back it up. If you're going to say I have no understanding of his tools even though I've been into the lab and still currently am practicing things you didn't even know worked then back up what you're saying with facts. My original statement was an opinion and yet again saying "I am wrong" as if your opinion is factually correct doesn't help. You feel that I am wrong, and I'm open to being proven wrong as I have been a couple of times throughout the thread, it's cool.
He wasn't talking about his neutral in general though, he kept talking about what options Batgirl has against Joker and as I rightfully said that's something for the matchup thread. I commented in the discussion thread saying I'll wait for the BG and WoWo mus, so alright lolHe did state facts. You followed up with 47 lines summating to "...so? Batgirl = harder". That's enough. Saving it for the MU thread. You will be tagged.
Because most of what you said kept referring to the BG Joker matchup and not his neutral in general, that's why. But argument is indeed useless, especially if it's based on opinions so I think we should just not.It achieved the simple fact that of everything we've said you still don't understand or get what we are saying and the wealth of things you are talking about can be dealt with. Tbh I feel like rather I continue to back my stuff up or not we will keep going and your counter arguments will just further look like nonsense to me no offense. I'm just to lazy to argue if I feel it will achieve nothing lol
I apologize for not being more clear when I was comparing their neutral game. I wasn't talking the MU. I was talking about the conparison their neutral and using each other as examples. If that makes senseHe wasn't talking about his neutral in general though, he kept talking about what options Batgirl has against Joker and as I rightfully said that's something for the matchup thread. I commented in the discussion thread saying I'll wait for the BG and WoWo mus, so alright lol
Because most of what you said kept referring to the BG Joker matchup and not his neutral in general, that's why. But argument is indeed useless, especially if it's based on opinions so I think we should just not.
Apologies for the derailment and all guys
C'mon now Youph this is going too far. Batgirl's vortex is not fuzziable. If you truly believe it is, post a video showing you correctly blocking her vortex consistently and I'll gladly eat my words.Even PL agrees it's fuzziable
Uh how exactly? The only thing I can record with has no space left on it and everything on it unfortunately I require. Talk about shitty situations...otherwise I'd be all over itC'mon now Youph this is going too far. Batgirl's vortex is not fuzziable. If you truly believe it is, post a video showing you correctly blocking her vortex consistently and I'll gladly eat my words.
Right... Are you referring to your phone? Because if not then just use that.Uh how exactly? The only thing I can record with has no space left on it and everything on it unfortunately I require. Talk about shitty situations...otherwise I'd be all over it
Yeah I am :/Right... Are you referring to your phone? Because if not then just use that.
But you posted a combo video like 4 days agoYeah I am :/
I know, and that only worked because I was using my sisters ipod but I can't use it right now because she's away at her friends house -_-But you posted a tech video like 4 days ago
Can't you juststealborrow someone else's phone?
Then please go into training mode, make a video of you doing this with at least half the cast and post it. Either I'm doing it wrong or crowbar is god's gift to JokerBro, every character can neutral jump between D2 and crowbar for a full punish on reaction. Characters like Grundy have a hard time doing it but they can just 11 out, but in BGs case she can just flying bat between it lol and I wasn't in the corner, she was. But is also hasn't happened in the corner. Sonicfox has done it to me quite a few times before midscreen.
Of all the things Batgirl can threaten with whilst dashing, teleport is not the main option there lol. If anything it'd be cartwheel you have to worry about.Also if I'm gonna d2 cancel for safety I may as well do blossom. Any character with an an adavncing b3 (wowo, batman, superman etc) should be able to punish the backdash. Bane as well though just probably not with b3. The fact that they can fish to interrupt also makes this dangerous depending on range. Also the THREAT of teleport is what allows you to dash up like a mad woman. Yes it's full combo but it's still an option and rewarding on a good read. Joker has nothing like that outside of far teeth range.
Just as you say you need to be patient with your options we need to be patient with ours. Also I would take backdash able holes over interruptible ones any day. Because of how backdashing works I'd be willing to bet that even if they backdash the strings THERE IS NO PUNISH. You are both just in neutral and playing footsies. For joker he will get full combo punished off his best strings getting interrupted
Which part? Neutral jumping in between or flying bat? I'll test when I get home real quick.Then please go into training mode, make a video of you doing this with at least half the cast and post it. Either I'm doing it wrong or crowbar is god's gift to Joker
Both. Hell, see what other characters can do. I've already tried neutral jumping and that didn't work. She kept getting caughtWhich part? Neutral jumping in between or flying bat? I'll test when I get home real quick.
Hmmm. Try it at different spacings on the d2. I think I've seen people jump it successfully against me, but it might be character dependent. D1 will always stuff it while it's coming in, much like f23 breath loops. Try playing as Joker and setting the computer to always block and reversal flying bat, see if it pulls it off. I'm honestly not sure what her options are. I just know d1 should do the job regardless.Both. Hell, see what other characters can do. I've already tried neutral jumping and that didn't work. She kept getting caught