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MK1 (2023) Gameplay Mechanics Discussion

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
So, if you can use up block to block overheads, does that mean you can also punish all overheads now????
good question

in theory, if upblock was created to give you extra defensive option for aerial kick attacks, and serve the same purpose for overhead, so, a standing position overhead attack, done by a character while on the ground, if being possible to be also defended by this new mechanic, put a lot of new strategy element for this game !
 
Learning more about how these ambush kameo attacks work and the fact that they aren't just a pre-canned input to a string, I'm going to be impressed as hell if this game comes out and is even reasonably balanced. The fact that triggering a kameo doesn't only extend kombos, but also can for example make moves safe, how do you manage the economy of how much that kameo move should cost knowing all the different implications of how every full character can exploit it in different contexts to make themselves busted?

I think this game is going to be a ridiculous wild west free for all at launch, and I'm thrilled about it.
 

Law Hero

There is a head on a pole behind you
Learning more about how these ambush kameo attacks work and the fact that they aren't just a pre-canned input to a string, I'm going to be impressed as hell if this game comes out and is even reasonably balanced. The fact that triggering a kameo doesn't only extend kombos, but also can for example make moves safe, how do you manage the economy of how much that kameo move should cost knowing all the different implications of how every full character can exploit it in different contexts to make themselves busted?

I think this game is going to be a ridiculous wild west free for all at launch, and I'm thrilled about it.
I don't believe this game is going to be REMOTELY balanced, but so long as it's fun, I'll be happy. I get the feeling kameo setups are going to be insane, especially ones that can be delayed like Kano's. I can already imagine some S++ tier rushdown teams as well as zoning teams.

Not only that, but Ed really made it sound like he wanted to just throw everything in the game and let the players go to town with it. This feels like the opposite of MK11 which was so concerned with balance, that everything felt incredibly restricted.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I don't believe this game is going to be REMOTELY balanced, but so long as it's fun, I'll be happy. I get the feeling kameo setups are going to be insane, especially ones that can be delayed like Kano's. I can already imagine some S++ tier rushdown teams as well as zoning teams.

Not only that, but Ed really made it sound like he wanted to just throw everything in the game and let the players go to town with it. This feels like the opposite of MK11 which was so concerned with balance, that everything felt incredibly restricted.
It sounds like they are limiting what you can do at certain times — so if they feel that something in combination with Kameos is too strong, then you just won’t be able to call a Kameo during it (Max gave the example of Sub-Zero’s slide)

I think you’re totally right that some stuff will be super strong anyway, especially at first, but it sounds like they’re not just gonna let everyone do everything whenever.

Also it seems like they’ve intentionally toned down certain moves so that they won’t be as strong in combination with Kameos (for example Sub’s iceball having slower startup, clone not lasting very long, etc)

Likewise with Kenshi not being able to summon Kameo or use spirit attacks in Sento stance
 
I don't believe this game is going to be REMOTELY balanced, but so long as it's fun, I'll be happy. I get the feeling kameo setups are going to be insane, especially ones that can be delayed like Kano's. I can already imagine some S++ tier rushdown teams as well as zoning teams.

Not only that, but Ed really made it sound like he wanted to just throw everything in the game and let the players go to town with it. This feels like the opposite of MK11 which was so concerned with balance, that everything felt incredibly restricted.
I really appreciate it and I think the rest of the community will too. If you come out saying "oh, we want this game to be super clean and balanced" and it isn't, people are gonna tear you up. I get the sense that MK11 was built around that fear. But I think there's some playfulness and humor in saying "this is a wild system, we have no idea what kind of crazy shit people will come up with, we're along for the ride too" that will resonate with people.
 
I don't believe this game is going to be REMOTELY balanced, but so long as it's fun, I'll be happy. I get the feeling kameo setups are going to be insane, especially ones that can be delayed like Kano's. I can already imagine some S++ tier rushdown teams as well as zoning teams.

Not only that, but Ed really made it sound like he wanted to just throw everything in the game and let the players go to town with it. This feels like the opposite of MK11 which was so concerned with balance, that everything felt incredibly restricted.
I mean MvC 2 and especially 3 have some great meta's and even MVCI has a healthy one.

In games where characters can't do much, one character getting to do something totally unique is gamebreaking.

In games where everyone can do a bunch of bullshit, there's certainly "the best" bullshit, but you can still take your main, put in work, and wipe out anyone who doesn't know the matchup.

Now obviously it's not the black and white. They could easily wind up with all sorts of issues that make this even harder to deal with, but I'm glad to see them swinging for the fences because even if it is a pile, it'll at least be a fun pile. And personally looking at MK9, they've gotten pretty close before.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Learning more about how these ambush kameo attacks work and the fact that they aren't just a pre-canned input to a string, I'm going to be impressed as hell if this game comes out and is even reasonably balanced. The fact that triggering a kameo doesn't only extend kombos, but also can for example make moves safe, how do you manage the economy of how much that kameo move should cost knowing all the different implications of how every full character can exploit it in different contexts to make themselves busted?

I think this game is going to be a ridiculous wild west free for all at launch, and I'm thrilled about it.
That's the first thing you think of, but this is how the kameo system is in the game.
Kameo can be stuffed
Kameo damage transfers to the player, even though it's only 2%
Certain Kameo's moves takes longer to regain meter than less costly moves, which rebuilds the meter a faster rate
You can use kameos as meat shields
You can only use Kameos twice before their meter refil
If Kameo's meter it's depleted, they become unusable
If you hit a Kameo while they are on the screen, they become unusable for a period of time
Unusable, Kameo, cannot be summoned, used for ambush or to break combos

So having Kameos with all these variables feels thrilling, but the fact that they can take the hit, as well and disable their usage as well as breakers makes for an exciting game.
 
It sounds like they are limiting what you can do at certain times — so if they feel that something in combination with Kameos is too strong, then you just won’t be able to call a Kameo during it (Max gave the example of Sub-Zero’s slide)

I think you’re totally right that some stuff will be super strong anyway, especially at first, but it sounds like they’re not just gonna let everyone do everything whenever.

Also it seems like they’ve intentionally toned down certain moves so that they won’t be as strong in combination with Kameos (for example Sub’s iceball having slower startup, clone not lasting very long, etc)

Likewise with Kenshi not being able to summon Kameo or use spirit attacks in Sento stance
I agree and this is a good point. I think Kameo's will work in the way that SF6 works (and most SF's i think) where only certain, specific normals link into specials. Like certain strings/specials won't be cancelable into kameo's. There will be crazy stuff for sure but we won't get never ending safe (or plus) mix up pressure. Things will still be punishable even if your opponent's kameo meter is full.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah

Kameos are really fucking involved and some of these strategies are awesome. Boon mentioned in a Q&A that Lao's Kameo will give any character a teleport. And in this video towards the end, Ketchup goes over a setup where he gets a knockdown with Sub, calls the Charged Kano Ball assist, and goes for Sub's 50/50. If the 50/50 lands, he gets a combo, if the 50/50 is blocked, he releases Kano Ball to keep him from being punished. He's using Kano as insurance and thats so sick

These are so much more than simple fireballs and attack strings. They're really letting us do crazy shit with these things
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Some more tidbits from Mustard's stream:
  • Not an up-to-date build (certain capabilities weren't in the game yet)
  • Dashing felt 'clunky'
  • They felt the max distance between fighters was shorter than usual (More like SF)
  • (Every fighter can be point blank after one dash and a jump)
  • Upblock has a lot of active frames
  • Combo into fatal blow was breakable, raw fatal blow might not be
  • Saw Fatal Blows getting stuffed a lot, might have adjustments to the timing of armored frames
 

BecomingDeath13

"You won't winter over?" Who the fuck wrote that?
Has anyone seen or heard about throw techs? Please tell me they changed it up
I don't think they did. I've seen techs in gameplay and the notification has changed to "towards throw tech" or similar to that. It actually says what direction was teched which just doubles down on 50/50 throws in my opinion. Which I fucking hate. If you're gonna make them 50/50 at least make the grabbing animation different so you have a chance at guessing right. Thank fuck there's no 30% throw KBs this time
 

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
I didnt dive into this thread but one thing I wanted to write down here.
Please NRS dont make dash cancel meta. It looks so stupid as a tournament-spectator.
Totally killing the great look of a game. I hope walkspeed is good enough. I know some hardcore players want to shine with frame perfect advantages but man it looks bad ...
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While I am here, hell yeah fatalblows have now a startup animation, all I needed for MK11.
And please dont have a noob saibot situation, with fullscreen "safe" FB, awful gameplay.
(Frost fullscreen was -41 while noobs -23, bad balance design, you could punish Frost with everyone.)
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The new upblock mechanic looks great for more options. Cant wait to feel it.
(please let me play the stress test too :laughing:)
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Silly question: Does anyone know if you can select the P2 color on purpose? lol. Always prefered Sonya's red to her green.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
Silly question: Does anyone know if you can select the P2 color on purpose? lol. Always prefered Sonya's red to her green.
You should be able to. They've done it in every game NRS has made. You press Start when selecting a character and you get the P2 color. This was even a cool workaround in MK11 because you could use it to select character skins you haven't actually unlocked yet.
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
In this build you couldn't, I tried every button lmao.
Glad I'm not the only one who would waste precious seconds of stress test time on that. I hope the beta has more characters as I really need to find out what they have going on with Scorpion. Hopefully he'll be one of the first Kombat Kasts and it will be soon. I'm hoping he's as good as the 4 we've seen so far. Well at least before he gets nerfed to trash before the end of the first month after release like usual. lol.