MK 1 Beta Balance - i thought it was pretty good.

[kabelfritz]

i didn't feel like there was anything extremely OP or UP in the beta, except infinites and other unintentional exploits of course.

i myself played li mei who has moderate zoning and brawling tools so she can kinda move between the ranges. she struggles a bit with heavy zoners but that can be covered by cameos, in this case frost with her low ice. i can see others do even better though like kung lao who has a combo extension as well as a teleport.

kameos in general might be a blessing for game balance because they can cover a character's weaknesses. i didnt find any kameo especially strong or weak either, but i saw VERY few jaxes over the weekend. i feel like his command throw is kind hard to use and GP was bugged.

other character impressions:

sub-zero: as always, very dominant screen control and mixups up close. recieved some very reasonable taming by making ice clone have a cooldown of 4 secs and stay active for only 2 secs. ice ball is not comboing from strings anymore, hes gotta spend meter now with low freeze.

johnny cage: obviously an absolute noob killer, but he can struggle if you know your defence up close or keep him out. all except one string start high.

kitana: not as many plus frames as others, but sweep range attacks which is not a thing everyone has in mk1. i struggled in neutral against her with li meis very short melee attacks. blockstring into enhanced fans was a problem for me, but no chance to lab it.

liu kang: probably not what people wish him to be as hes very zony with only one great melee tool. f43 was imo the best mid string in the whole beta though with its range, speed and shenanigan options. i find liu kang extremely hard to open up in neutral.

kenshi: seems ridiculous at first glance but has a lot of tradeoffs, his overhead zoning tool can be jumped through, which is crucial for balance. i was also able to armor through sento offense intuitively a lot, without exact knowledge of the strings.

a general topic are also pokes, which are now very negative on block. poke game feels a little sluggish now, but i feel its generally positive. if you have plus frames, a poke is often the only option to create a frame trap. if sucessful, you have the option to continue with a high or a throw, if blocked it can be punished - but only by another poke! it is super-reasonable game design where you dont get to take half a lifebar from nothing.

overall i am very surprised how balanced the beta was. i love how there seem to almost no powerful "why not?"-moves and everything has a tradeoff. its a trend that started with the late MK11 DLC chars and NRS fortunately seems to have followed that.

 

[Agilaz]

Played quite a bit of Li Mei/Jax, he's fun but clunky indeed.

Grab needs to be aimed and trying to combo from it often results in you hitting your own Kameo. GP seems bugged indeed, he randomly stays out and does one or two additional ground pounds.

That said, he's fun for setups and between lanterns and GP, you pretty much control when your opponent is allowed to jump at any given time.

Also best Kameo fatality in the beta.

 

[Eddy Wang]

i just hope nrs doesn't ruin this game by rushing everything, the beta imo could do some more polishing, it was riddled with bugs, glitches, visual errors, game crashing
kameo not activacting when called
input window short still triggering accidental specials
light in teahouse stage looking weird
Telegraphed strings.
Audio of the game disabling on its own
Forcefully accessibility features i couldn't turn off like characters forcefully speaking Portuguese (which felt extremely weird and the audio quality of the portuguese dub was terrible) giving me text descriptions of the entire game in portuguese, which majority of them were lost in translation.
and starting at the screen while looking for matches.

these are things that kept me for enjoying the beta, so i had to spend most of my time using towers as a training mode, hope these are all fixed on release, and hope we don't have to stare at the "looking for match" screen without being able to do anything else in the game

Outside of these, it can be an ejoyable game, the pace didn't felt bad, it's definitely not like MK9, its more like a polished MK11 gravity, movement, but without crushing blows.
The characters normals seemed though out, the reach, the gaps, the advantage of frames, even the evasion proprieties, this is the part i like the most overall.

i still think the game would do just fine without kameos, as they add the visible confusion on screen which i find unecessary, but they are on the right track, 14th of september is where i will definitely be able to explore more of the game properly from a compeititve perspective, just hope these issues are fixed by then.

 

[Juggs]

One thing we started seeing in the beta is people finally using Kameos more than just for zoning or for combos. Aka to help with pressure and to cover super negative/punishable moves. MK1 is gonna be a lab monsters wet dream and I am definitely a lab monster and I cannot wait!

 

[fr stack]

I want less blockstun i got blown up quite a few times for hitting a d1 confirm into throw but im doing too quick so either it whiffs or nothing happens , ive put it down to early game finger retardation for now but somethings going on there

 

[Agilaz]

I want less blockstun i got blown up quite a few times for hitting a d1 confirm into throw but im doing too quick so either it whiffs or nothing happens , ive put it down to early game finger retardation for now but somethings going on there

Blockstun is def weird again, I hope it's smoothed out by release time.

 

[smaddy]

I hope (and think they will) they make adjustments to some of the damage. I love how combo crazy the game is, but I do sort of prefer it that a high 30% or 40% combo is a bit more rare and not commonplace as it seemed to be in the beta, hell hitting 50% in the beta without fatal blow wasn't even too difficult.

 

[Juggs]

I hope (and think they will) they make adjustments to some of the damage. I love how combo crazy the game is, but I do sort of prefer it that a high 30% or 40% combo is a bit more rare and not commonplace as it seemed to be in the beta, hell hitting 50% in the beta without fatal blow wasn't even too difficult.

I completely disagree. If you want that, then MK11 is the game for you. But I’m glad the damage is high and that there’s a lot of combo creativity. One of the best parts about the game tbh

 

[kabelfritz]

I completely disagree. If you want that, then MK11 is the game for you. But I’m glad the damage is high and that there’s a lot of combo creativity. One of the best parts about the game tbh

ive seen 60%+ combos on YT and i'm torn between "thats a bit too much" and "he spent all resources on it so thats fine". i guess we cant judge that before we see the meta evolve.

 

[Zviko]

I want less blockstun i got blown up quite a few times for hitting a d1 confirm into throw but im doing too quick so either it whiffs or nothing happens , ive put it down to early game finger retardation for now but somethings going on there

Yes that got me too a few times. I even failed a blocked fatal blow punish because of block stun. Usually I got 2nd part of the string as the first hit which obviously dropped the whole combo.

I hope (and think they will) they make adjustments to some of the damage. I love how combo crazy the game is, but I do sort of prefer it that a high 30% or 40% combo is a bit more rare and not commonplace as it seemed to be in the beta, hell hitting 50% in the beta without fatal blow wasn't even too difficult.

I disagree. I like this kind of damage in fighting games. Just take 30-40% as the new normal while 50%+ will be rare. It also adds a layer of resource management, especially when breakers drain almost all of it.

 

[Check]

kameos add visible confusion on screen,.

This is one of the biggest problems i've noticed in the game, especially Johnny Cage's taunts while calling in a Kameo. They are too distracting, and some Kameo moves you can't even see, such as Frost's ground freeze because they are blocked by the character who's calling in the Kameo. I would say Liu Kangs taunt when calling in a Kameo is the only one which is not distracting and done right. Overall, a very good point, Eddy. It's a shame more people aren't talking about this.

kameo not activating when called

^^ Another good point here.

Edit: Sonya's Leg Grab is almost entirely blocked by the call in character. What is visible of her legs, the color green blends in with certain areas of Cage's mansion (near right wall), making it nearly completely invisible.

 

[Agilaz]

Man I've been fiending to play more MK1. Im constantly thinking about how Shang will play, what kameos to use with him, or with Shao...

And unlike MKX and MK11, a character's flaws in MK1 feel like a fun puzzle to try and overcome. Not a hopeless fact like in the previous games.

Like, Li Mei would have been pretty much DOA in MK11 due to shit mids. In MK1, trying out different Kameos can offer a myriad of solutions for any given character flaw.

I may be a bit overly optimistic, but i have a feeling this could be THE MK game. Might even dethrone MK9.

 

[kabelfritz]

Man I've been fiending to play more MK1. Im constantly thinking about how Shang will play, what kameos to use with him, or with Shao...

And unlike MKX and MK11, a character's flaws in MK1 feel like a fun puzzle to try and overcome. Not a hopeless fact like in the previous games.

Like, Li Mei would have been pretty much DOA in MK11 due to shit mids. In MK1, trying out different Kameos can offer a myriad of solutions for any given character flaw.

I may be a bit overly optimistic, but i have a feeling this could be THE MK game. Might even dethrone MK9.

how are li meis mids shit? they are short but shes got some good plusframes plus a safe mixup.

 

[Zviko]

how are li meis mids shit? they are short but shes got some good plusframes plus a safe mixup.

Her B2 is 12f, very short, not hitconfirmable string. B3 is slow, the string is + but with a gap and on hit you need a kameo like Sonya to get a launch from it. Compared to other characters, that's relatively shit imo.

 

[kabelfritz]

Her B2 is 12f, very short, not hitconfirmable string. B3 is slow, the string is + but with a gap and on hit you need a kameo like Sonya to get a launch from it. Compared to other characters, that's relatively shit imo.

12f mid is good in mk1 i think. b3 standalone is +3. i was able to get some good offense going with her, i also feel like highs are way more valuable in neutral than they were in mk 11. 4 and 2 cover some range quickly. shes doesnt have the most amazing normals but theyre alright plus she has good screen control. i feel like the moveset is adequate, especially with the right kameo.

no offense, i dont know your history, but i get the feeling that from mkx+11 people think that its normal to have quick, long range, safe and confirmable mids that you can just throw out because "why not", while in my eyes it was one of the bigger issues of those games. mk1 beta offense was way more brainy and carefully approached and to me that was part of why it felt awesome.

but i realized i just confirmed what @Agilaz initially said, she would be DOA in mk 11 but in 1 its a fun puzzle to overcome.

 

[Agilaz]

no offense, i dont know your history, but i get the feeling that from mkx+11 people think that its normal to have quick, long range, safe and confirmable mids that you can just throw out because "why not", while in my eyes it was one of the bigger issues of those games. mk1 beta offense was way more brainy and carefully approached and to me that was part of why it felt awesome.

I completely agree with you. You're right about that being the meta in previous games, but that was also my biggest gripe with how those games were designed. No advancing, hit-confirmable mids? Straight into the trashcan.

By those standards, Li Mei's mids would absolutely be considered bad - but in MK1 that won't matter, cause you can use Kameo's where needed, and I felt most like most if not all of her normals had some use. The only thing I never really figured out was her 4312 string.

MK11 was sold to us as being all about good neutral and footsies, but in practice it meant "find your best mid and abuse it. No good mids? Tough shit, enjoy losing".

MK1 seems to ACTUALLY be about good neutral and footsies, with a good dash of degenaracy thrown in.

 

[kabelfritz]

The only thing I never really figured out was her 4312 string.

me neither, probably because the frame data for the 12 ender was missing.

 

[Zviko]

mk1 beta offense was way more brainy and carefully approached and to me that was part of why it felt awesome.

Yes, depending on who you played. With Li Mei and Kitana it certainly felt that way. Having a "good mid" is not only about "meta" but the lack of one it means you have to play that character a lot smarter and actually play footsies or as you said "brainy" while your opponent can just mash. I mean even Li Mei's D1, it either doesn't reach or it constantly gets punished which can't be said for other characters in the beta. You could say there are kameos out there that cover bad mids for characters like her but that also narrows the list of usable kameos down by a lot and by doing that it also punishes your character elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Sub Zero players can pick whatever kameo they want because it just works because the character himself doesn't really need anything.

 

[kabelfritz]

Yes, depending on who you played. With Li Mei and Kitana it certainly felt that way. Having a "good mid" is not only about "meta" but the lack of one it means you have to play that character a lot smarter and actually play footsies or as you said "brainy" while your opponent can just mash. I mean even Li Mei's D1, it either doesn't reach or it constantly gets punished which can't be said for other characters in the beta. You could say there are kameos out there that cover bad mids for characters like her but that also narrows the list of usable kameos down by a lot and by doing that it also punishes your character elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Sub Zero players can pick whatever kameo they want because it just works because the character himself doesn't really need anything.

i dont wanna make any judgements yet but ill admit sub-zero's d1 gave me some rolleyes moments . i felt like the best way to face him as li mei was to turtle and get in with a frost low ice read. sub zero CAN hide behind his clone full screen but he doesnt really get anything from it, he has to get in and start his rather risky offense at some point - while li mei is really safe when she gets to take her turn at that range. once you accept that sub zero dictates the pace and you dont, this matchup can get really frustrating for him.