Question - Stunt Double Match ups that SD does better than A-List?

[Dizzy]

Hey all, curious what your opinions on the thread title are.

I personally don't feel there are many, the main one that comes to mind is Grandmaster Sub-Zero, as the mimics ignore the ice clone, which is pretty nice. I think this is very likely a MU that SD does better than A-List in.

 

[EGP Awesomo]

I feel like A-list covers almost all match ups well. SD for GM Sub and maybe Kenshi (I like that Mimic SK knocksdown, and when you get in you get big damage, so the neutral isnt so annoying). As for fisticuffs I think its still really good when you play it against Quan...thats about it lol

 

[IrishMantis]

As an SD main he def does a lot better against GM as you said, but I'm sure there is more

You looking into SD?

 

[ismael4790]

I agree, SD works much better vs GM Sub. Though he is always a problem vs all Cage variations xD He made me learn Kenshi as a backup

As for fisticuffs I think its still really good when you play it against Quan...thats about it lol

Yes, Quan is probably the only matchup (or one of the very few ones) where picking Cage can be a better option than SD or A-List.

 

[smokey]

Kitana, Shinnok, Kenshi and Sub Z are my picks. Anyone getting pushed to the corner trying to zone you, you dont have the stamina to play with at midscreen and you also can make up some insane wall carry and damage. Clones give a decent fast mid screen option to get in, contest zoning and also give you frame traps without stamina. I would happily use SD in any matchup at the moment, though some like Quan, Pred, Dvorah you really want that extra pressure from A list, as they have shitty armour which you can punch through and get dumb pressure options.

 

[Phosferrax]

Works better against Dualist Liu Kang imo. Having straight forceballs helps in that MU as well as the big damage.

 

[ismael4790]

Kitana, Shinnok, Kenshi and Sub Z are my picks. Anyone getting pushed to the corner trying to zone you, you dont have the stamina to play with at midscreen and you also can make up some insane wall carry and damage. Clones give a decent fast mid screen option to get in, contest zoning and also give you frame traps without stamina. I would happily use SD in any matchup at the moment, though some like Quan, Pred, Dvorah you really want that extra pressure from A list, as they have shitty armour which you can punch through and get dumb pressure options.

I play Kenshi also, and JC is quite fucked if the Kenshi player is not stupid, no matter which variation he picks. However I agree, SD can help to close the distance and put him in the corner.

 

[rafaw]

IMO just against Sub GM and Shinnok, blocked hellspark check with msk will limit theyr use of this tool.

 

[smokey]

I play Kenshi also, and JC is quite fucked if the Kenshi player is not stupid, no matter which variation he picks. However I agree, SD can help to close the distance and put him in the corner.

Kenshi gets bodied by cage because sprint and f3 exist, doesnt matter what variation kenshi once cage is in he loses, and he cant zone him.

 

[EGP Awesomo]

Kenshi gets bodied by cage because sprint and f3 exist, doesnt matter what variation kenshi once cage is in he loses, and he cant zone him.

My thoughts exactly, its not unwinnable by any means. I just feel like the damage of SD and the knockdown granted by mimic make my life much easier in this match up

 

[smokey]

My thoughts exactly, its not unwinnable by any means. I just feel like the damage of SD and the knockdown granted by mimic make my life much easier in this match up

Its actually Kenshis problem rather than Cage doing well. Kenshi doesnt have buttons he can push for free like cage f3 or d4 in the matchup, he can only win if he keep you out and doesnt get cornered once doing it. If he gets to build bars and EX KArma you to bits, you lose, if not its free.

 

[IrishMantis]

I think he may do better against Kotal due to his mid MSK

 

[Dizzy]

As an SD main he def does a lot better against GM as you said, but I'm sure there is more

You looking into SD?

Not too heavily, just curious what opinions there are. I feel A-List is almost certainly better overall than Stunt Double, but acknowledge there's likely at least a few MUs where Stunt Double is better and likely several where it is equal to A-List.

SD seems pretty easy to learn with previous A-List knowledge, so I wouldn't be surprised if I used it in the future; if there is an obvious advantage match to use it.

 

[ismael4790]

Its actually Kenshis problem rather than Cage doing well. Kenshi doesnt have buttons he can push for free like cage f3 or d4 in the matchup, he can only win if he keep you out and doesnt get cornered once doing it. If he gets to build bars and EX KArma you to bits, you lose, if not its free.

Not unwinnable of course. But A-List needs to use run to get close, and then stamina is out too often when he gets in. SD has a bit easier the task of closing the distance as we said.
We all know Kenshi is shit tier, but this is one of the matchups where he is not too uncomfortable, if he manages his meter well.

 

[Name v.5.0]

GM Sub is the biggest, but it's hard to be sure about Kitana, Kotal, Shinnok and Kenshi...Considering Johnny shines bright yellow when mimics are active, top notch players wont be able to forget it's active and slip up to do something that's punishable by MSK,like Shinnok's hellsparks.

However, knocking down any zoner, while staying safe with MSK is a big advantage for SDJC over A-List. So you could possibly add FA Jacqui, or Cyber Kano.

Personally, I feel SDJC does better against Pyro Tanya, Spec Ops Cassie, and Special Forces Sonya. I'm not 100% sure as I gave up on A-List quite some time ago.

 

[mrKrucifix]

I think it's pretty unanimous that SD JC is the way to go vs GM SZ.

Kitana is a maybe. There have been times I've been able to contest with Kitana's zoning at full screen because I had the high and low arc force balls. It helps keep her from using instant air fans / glaives in the air. She can still float to avoid the projectiles, but she has to time her inputs well or she'll eat the damage.

This works best when you have the life lead, and can afford to take the chip. Depending on the spacing, you can also hit an EX shadow kick to punish her for shooting a projectile or trying to reflect too, but all JC variants can do that.

I don't know about any other match ups in question, but i wouldn't be surprised if SD ended up being used for more than just Ice Clone regularly.

 

[EGP Awesomo]

GM Sub is the biggest, but it's hard to be sure about Kitana, Kotal, Shinnok and Kenshi...Considering Johnny shines bright yellow when mimics are active, top notch players wont be able to forget it's active and slip up to do something that's punishable by MSK,like Shinnok's hellsparks.
.

That's the point tho, if you take the option to use hellsparks, its already more effective than if you used them. Sometimes the threat of using the tool is better than the tool itself

 

[Thanilla Ice]

I read the title and immediately thought of GM Sub

 

[llabslb]

How does he handle against Takeda?

 

[Rickyraws]

@GGA Dizzy and SD aficionados

How well do you feel SD Jonathan Cage fares against Cryomancer Sub Zero? Post patch, some people are still yet to realize just how brutal of a punisher Sub Zero is in that variation. But this may not apply to Johnny Cage. If Johnny-Come-Lately contends with CRYO well, then this is a non-issue, but if not, what's to say that SD Johnny Darko as a GM contender wouldn't simply yield a variation switch by the Sub player?

 

[EGP Awesomo]

@GGA Dizzy and SD aficionados

How well do you feel SD Jonathan Cage fares against Cryomancer Sub Zero? Post patch, some people are still yet to realize just how brutal of a punisher Sub Zero is in that variation. But this may not apply to Johnny Cage. If Johnny-Come-Lately contends with CRYO well, then this is a non-issue, but if not, what's to say that SD Johnny Darko as a GM contender wouldn't simply yield a variation switch by the Sub player?

Cryo is good, we know this to be true. But just because johnny doesnt have run cancels in SD doesnt mean his offense is lacking. His normals and mix ups are still really good and can be an issue for CryoSub

 

[Rickyraws]

Cryo is good, we know this to be true. But just because johnny doesnt have run cancels in SD doesnt mean his offense is lacking. His normals and mix ups are still really good and can be an issue for CryoSub

Ah okay, good. Then SD as a whole may just be the 'Sub Zero variation' after all.

 

[Dizzy]

Ah okay, good. Then SD as a whole may just be the 'Sub Zero variation' after all.

I don't have much real exp against cryo, but in theory I would think A-List and SD are probably similar in MU.

But yes, to further support your claim (however, the amount of thought you put into it is suspect) JC mimics also ignore Sub-Zero's parry in unbreakable so you can use it as a safe check if you want to make baby's first read.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

What's up Dizzy
<<Best Stunt Double here to tell you about Stunt Double and prove that Stunt Double can be just as good as A-List
ahhhh i got nothin.

 

[Rickyraws]

I don't have much real exp against cryo, but in theory I would think A-List and SD are probably similar in MU.

But yes, to further support your claim (however, the amount of thought you put into it is suspect) JC mimics also ignore Sub-Zero's parry in unbreakable so you can use it as a safe check if you want to make baby's first read.

Interesting. I must clarify my resentment towards your downright slanderous claim, however. My MU knowledge on the matter is far from suspect.













It is non existent. I would like the records to show this. Its a MU I definitely want to play more. Also, no real sane person would use Unbreakable, so that's dozens of potential hours of MU grinding circumvented right there.

Unbreakable tries. Unbreakable does its best. But in reality compared to its more popular brothers, Unbreakable is the Stephen Baldwin of Sub Zero variations.