LOTF Nightwolf matchup chart

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

LOTF Nightwolf matchup list post patch!(I may change it as I do more testing but feel free to comment)

Maybe with it's own thread people will discuss. I would love other players input about their characters vs nightwolf so I can make this list 100% legit. Thanks.

6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
4-6 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
4.5-5.5 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
4.5-5.5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5.5-4.5 vs Kano
5-5 vs Kenshi
5-5 vs Kitana
5-5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
4-6 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
4.5-5.5 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
4.5-5.5 vs Sektor
6-4 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
5-5 vs Skarlet
6-4 vs Smoke
4-6 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

 

[Crackpipe]

Looks about right. Has the advantage over all the cast except the top tier.

Kabal is 4-6? Can you give me advice on the matchup? I get completely owned by good Kabal players.

 

[McNasty]

I really think that Nw vs Cyrax is 5-5 in the cyrax match up discussion most have it as 5-5. Especially since the patch with reduced damage it feels like nightwolf has an answer to everything. reflect+lightening and ex shoulder kill all net options for him. either way NW is getting the crucial knockdown where cryax's only option on wake up is EX teleport. F3 stuffs his ex rag-doll when timed right. The only thing cyrax does have going is any openings in NWs up close pressure 21 can get in before 122 or b221. Ive played a lot against Trophy Club and between us this match has been mostly even even when he had the resets. Big combos vs NW means free dangerous meter to make a comeback in my experience.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

On wakeup cyrax can do anti air throw as a wakeup. And if I try to pressure doing f31 as he gets up , he recovers from air throw before I do and I eat a combo for 50+.

If cyrax turtles out nightwolf He has trouble building meter without taking damage. Eh shoulder knocks him down but I can't pressure due to above, if I try to bait the air throw against a smart cyrax they can just get up and keep turtling. I have to work hard to get in vs cyrax but it's just hard to pressure when the air throw gets him out.

Any other thoughts about it? U may know something I don't know.

 

[greeneless]

4-6 vs Kabal, Liu Kang, Kitana, and Mileena.. I see Nightwolf has some issues with instant air fireballs. Is that the only reason? I play Kang and some Mileena, I'd be interested to know why you think those match ups go so far against Nightwolf.

Also, Quan chi is not 6-4. His normals are at about the same speed as nightwolfs, so he isn't going to have his usual trouble with being rushed down. Yeah, you can pressure him on wakeup, like everyone should, but if he tech rolls away he'll probably get a free trance while you're recovering from a wiffed F3 1. And I'm not sure about this, but QC might be able to dash in from full screen after a skull toss anticipating a reflect, and get a free trance if NW sends it back. Those skulls have very good recovery. I haven't tested this, though.

 

[Karnage]

I am tempted to say the reptile matchup may be closer to 5-5 i know alot of people may disagree though.

Also i think raiden could be closer to 3-7? Really think raiden is the hardest matchup for nightwolf by far.

 

[McNasty]

Only do a F3 on the wake up just to stuff the ragdoll if he does the anti air grab you wont be stuck jamming the knife into the air. I never leave the ground against cyrax unless im in the corner especially now without free throws off JIP. Just inch my way towards him its hard for cyrax to get it done without a single net or bomb that ends up being a free shoulder 90% of the time.

 

[shoshinsha]

On wakeup cyrax can do anti air throw as a wakeup. And if I try to pressure doing f31 as he gets up , he recovers from air throw before I do and I eat a combo for 50+.

If cyrax turtles out nightwolf He has trouble building meter without taking damage. Eh shoulder knocks him down but I can't pressure due to above, if I try to bait the air throw against a smart cyrax they can just get up and keep turtling. I have to work hard to get in vs cyrax but it's just hard to pressure when the air throw gets him out.

Any other thoughts about it? U may know something I don't know.

If your timing and spacing is good, you can pressure on wakeup with hatchet. It can hit from outside his normals range, leaves you grounded and immune to air throw, and will catch the wakeup air throw after the wakeup frames are over. His only options besides block are roll or ex rag doll.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

If your timing and spacing is good, you can pressure on wakeup with hatchet. It can hit from outside his normals range, leaves you grounded and immune to air throw, and will catch the wakeup air throw after the wakeup frames are over. His only options besides block are roll or ex rag doll.

But what if he quck recovers and does a net while I'm doing a hatchet?

@mcNasty. Probably the best advice. But then how does nightwolf build meter if he can't get in against a turtle cyrax?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

4-6 vs Kabal, Liu Kang, Kitana, and Mileena.. I see Nightwolf has some issues with instant air fireballs. Is that the only reason? I play Kang and some Mileena, I'd be interested to know why you think those match ups go so far against Nightwolf.

Also, Quan chi is not 6-4. His normals are at about the same speed as nightwolfs, so he isn't going to have his usual trouble with being rushed down. Yeah, you can pressure him on wakeup, like everyone should, but if he tech rolls away he'll probably get a free trance while you're recovering from a wiffed F3 1. And I'm not sure about this, but QC might be able to dash in from full screen after a skull toss anticipating a reflect, and get a free trance if NW sends it back. Those skulls have very good recovery. I haven't tested this, though.

NW does have trouble against instant air fireballs because they can be sent high enough for reflect to do nothing, leaving nw open.

Vs kabal Nw can't get in vs a kabal. He can do fireballs fast enough to where they disappear in front of nw face making reflect useless and open for saw or spin. Nw can handle kabal up close but it's closing the gap that's the issue.

Vs kang, b312 will stuff shoulder 9x of 10 if they sense it's coming, wakeup or not. Shoulder is nw only way to get in except dash blocking so to dash block on kang gives him the advantage because he doesn't have to block. He can duck shoulder or if I'm dash blocking he can walk up and pressure. I have to guess right essentially. Watch my matches vs atl redd in the revival finals in my guide. He even turtled me to a time out victory once...lol

Kitana it's the same as kabal and if she does her teleport as I neutral crouch low enough it will still hit nw so when I think I'm safe ducking under fans, a tele comes out and I get hit. Besides that, cutter and teleport and eh lift gets her out of lightning traps and that fucking d1 takes me out of every shoulder I do. Konqrr knocked me into losers at evo but just barely...if he knew the matchup it wouldn't have been close.

Mileena has d4...I know this from playing pogo the it's mleena who beat Chris g 5-0 in money match. I can't jump at her because of d4, I can't shoulder, I have to guess right and land a f3(hard timing) or from the right distance a b22. Sometimes u can jump and hit a jump kick to shoulder while she is doing d4 but jumping at mil is a bad idea because of teleport. She can keep nw out with iaf and d4... And that just opens up the rest of her game. It's a grind the whole time for nw. And she build meter like crazy while nw is begging for it.

The only normals quan has that are fast are his uppercut. Nw has like a 6 or 7 frame jab starter for 40-50%. And an uppercut that's just as fast. Now that quan has armor on his wakeup it make pressuring a little harder...but It takes meter away from his rune trap so I'm ok with it. Reflect has instant recovery on connection so a trance would eat a shoulder if he tried it. Nw can zone out quan chi.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I am tempted to say the reptile matchup may be closer to 5-5 i know alot of people may disagree though.

Also i think raiden could be closer to 3-7? Really think raiden is the hardest matchup for nightwolf by far.

He possibly could be 3-7 but I hesitate only because I havnt seen a raiden ever do this to me. I know it's theoretical, but there just aren't any raidens played in a way that gives nw trouble. If he turtles the entire match and only teleports or super mans to get away, then it might be 3-7 but any pressure with raiden = nw winning.

 

[Karnage]

He possibly could be 3-7 but I hesitate only because I havnt seen a raiden ever do this to me. I know it's theoretical, but there just aren't any raidens played in a way that gives nw trouble. If he turtles the entire match and only teleports or super mans to get away, then it might be 3-7 but any pressure with raiden = nw winning.

i really need to see this. lost to a raiden at a tourney and have played him since. still struggle like crazy. would love to see a matchup post on it though fly need to beat this guy lol!

 

[Konqrr]

Fly, how does lightning or :en lightning fare against Mileena d4 spam? When they just mash d4 when you get close, you can block or get hit by one then walk back and punish with a lot of characters. d4 on whiff is like -1000000000000

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I did beat a raiden at the game galaxy tourney I won.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Fly, how does lightning or :en lightning fare against Mileena d4 spam? When they just mash d4 when you get close, you can block or get hit by one then walk back and punish with a lot of characters. d4 on whiff is like -1000000000000

In my experience, against a masher, it might work. Against pig it doesn't because he won't do it unless I'm in range but if he sees the animation for lightning I usually eat a tele kick. Ive tried it.

 

[Karnage]

I did beat a raiden at the game galaxy tourney I won.

you dont happen to have a video of it do you dude?

 

[funkdoc]

I'm pretty sure wakeup shoulder should beat moves like b+312 now that wakeup invincibility has increased. The new max amount is 10 frames, which should cover shoulder.

Konqrr: I'm not Fly but I have played a bit of NW in tourney, so I'll try here. Lightning is almost definitely too slow to work on reaction, although a lot of Mileena players probably wouldn't be ready for it at first - a much faster and lower-risk option that also leads to more damage is b+2, but I'm not sure if even that can reliably whiff punish. And that's basically NW's only normal with any chance of working.

I also agree that Raiden is probably NW's worst match. Fly's experience hardly surprises me, as there are almost no good turtle Raidens out there and I think that's how he should be played most of the time. I'm just going to stop this post now before I start sounding like Tom Brady on Sub-Zero players, lol.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

you dont happen to have a video of it do you dude?

It horrible quality on my phone in a dim room but I'll try to find it.

Edit:

Ok I just uploaded the last match due to it bing 10 minutes on my phone of horrible quality and being too big to upload. But here is me vs raidn in the grand finals of the tourney.

Still not the best raiden out there by far.

 

[McNasty]

The only interesting thing ive found about raiden is if you bait him into doing super man by reflecting fireballs if you do a shoulder at the same time you will go through each other. once this happens it puts you at a good range to pressure him. once you shut down his superman then d1 d3 or hatchet every teleport you can you will force him to turtle and thats when you want to pressure him with f3, d3 and standing 1. Its still a very difficult match you pretty much have to rely on gimmicks.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Wen raiden teleports instead of doing d1, you can get an easy 122 axe. 1 should stuff it easily and if your late and he jumps, dash 1 him across the screen cause 1 will catch him in the air

 

[Karnage]

Seems like we have to bait the teleport to win which ive been trying and it does work

What about B3,1,2 on block? best option?

 

[Mosp]

I've been looking for this matchup chart but I was wondering if we could get little explanations as to why the numbers are the way they are. Especially because I always encounter matches I feel aren't in his favor yet they are listed as 5-5.

 

[Verstande]

I'm not good with match ups but I would change Kitana's matchup with a 5-5.

Kitana is dead if she tries to zone, nightwolf can reflect on reaction. The only option left for Kitana is her terrible rushdown.

I don't know why you think her teleport is such a hassle, if she ever does teleport, you can just uppercut and eat the fan if she throws one, uppercut (i think) is like 12% and the fan is 6%. By no means should you be afraid of the teleport.

The d1 is the only thing stopping nightwolf, but I think in the right hands and proper rushdown, nightwolf can obliterate Kitana with his shadow charge.

I am a Kitana player by the way, it's just the way I feel when I get my ass raped by a good nw =]

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I dont' agree with 4 of your match ups...
Sub Zero. NW doesn't win this match because d4 takes away shoulder charge and leads to pressure for Sub. NW has to lame out this matchup, and he forces himself into the corner, where he gets bullied like everyone else. Just like Mileena can tele Kick your lightning, Sub can slide it, and once he gets a knockdown I get free pressure. I think this matchup is a 5-5. NW does punish Sub hard on mistakes which is why it is even really.

Jax, Johnny Cage, Sonya. They all have way better footsie than NW, and that is really what kills him. I'm not an expert with those characters, not by a long shot, but having the footsie advantage is huge in this patched iteration of MK. I think you should re-evaluate those match ups, because I don't think they sway even as much as you would like them to.

 

[Mosp]

There's a few I also would change but I have a question about the Jax matchup. Since Nightwolf's hitbox is big he gets stuck in Jax's frametraps and once Jax is on you, he stays on and it's incredibly difficult to get him off. So I'm curious as to why it's 5-5 unless I'm missing something.